Newbie here... need some ADVICE

[MsPlatinum]

Hey everyone... I'm new on the forum and would like to ask for some advice...

Here is my situation: I am looking to compete (figure... hopefully fitness next year) at the end of june (14 weeks i think) and have more or less already started following a training/dieting regimen as of... well... about 10 days ago. I know it is a bit early, but I feel that I would rather have some extra time to prepare (maybe even do an earlier show if everything goes as planned) because i fear that I may fall behind (i'm the kind of person that gets to an appointment a half hour early... but that's better than being late!). So here are a few question... that I feel like I already know the answers to, but I guess I just need another's opinion here...

QUESTION #1:
I try to eat 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat... but my diet seems to alway skew (this time around and every time i have ever dieted before) in the direction of 45/35/20... i don't see a problem with this, if it were up to me, i'd cut out the carbs altogether (cooking veggies is annoying)... but i digress... so the question is: should i try to eat more carbs or not? or maybe less protein and more fat? since everwhere I go someone tells me something different... i was wondering what you guys would have to say about this....

QUESTION #2:
... so this brings me to problem #2. My Carbs (AGAIN!). When I write out my daily meal plan... I'm alway SHORT carbs... and not a little bit... i'm usually off by about HALF the carbs I should be eating. I already know the answer to this question... don't just eat veggies... eat potatos and brown rice as well... well... i just don't like them! Simple as that! I know I'm going to have to eat them EVENTUALLY... but I don't see why I can't have a Whole Wheat english muffin instead (8 grams of fiber in those and only a hundred calories)... especially this far out. Fruit is nothing but sugar, and rice cakes (imo) are wasted calories... or maybe I'm wrong... please correct me. So what foods am i left with that i CAN have... if any? I feel so dumb asking this question... since I feel like I already know the answer... lol

QUESTION #3:
I actually enjoy cardio... I do an hour every morning (at what I consider a moderate intensity) and usually an hour after I lift (4-5 times a week). Since I cut my calories to about 10 cal/lb (some have said this is too low... but I don't think so)... it seems I'm burning more calories each day than i'm consuming... good? maybe not... since I am probably burning my hard earned muscle as well. Right? Or wrong? I know a few competitors who do 2 hours of cardio a day as well (although I do not know exactly how much they eat)... but I also know those that do much less... and that this simply depends on the person (well... and what he or she is taking) So should I fight the urge to climb stairs every morning? Eat an extra 100-200 cals? Change the intensity? Or keep doing what I'm doing and adjust later?

QUESTION #4: (Last one... I promise!)
I divide my day into 6 meals (every 3 hours). My problem is that I'm just not good with staying on schedule on the days that I don't have classes (i go to school only 3 days a week). One meal always runs a bit late, then the next, etc... so by the end of the day I have eaten 5 meals... and i'm off to sleep... i don't see that MUCH harm with eating less calories (but again... losing muscle is not my goal here)... so should i make chugging down a protein shake before sleep a habit? or can i skip my last meal?

thanks everyone

 

[superqt4u2nv]

First off welcome to elite check out the sticky at the top of the boards especially the one so you want to compete great thread.

As for your questions:
1 & 2 It really depends on your body as to your macro break down a lot of girls here follow 40/30/30 protien/carbs/fat with great success. Me personally I can't eat that many carbs when cutting just how my body fuctions. I often follow ketogenic cycle diets. So really no good way to answer this as you need to figure out what works best for you. Also on the topic of not liking potatoes or brown rice food is full for body builders and fitness peeps. There was a lot of stuff I learned to like for the sake of this sport.

3. 2 hours a day is way too much cardio at the begining of a prep. I tend to work up to that much and if it was up to me I would get away with as little cardo as possible. IMO start with 45 min in the am moderate then do 30 min after lifting and build up from there.I know you may like cardio but I bet you like ben and jerry's but you wont be having that over contest prep either.

4. Yes you need to be getting in all 6 meals and meet the target of 10 x body weight so if need be have a shake with some good fats like natural peanut butter right before bed.

 

[Sassy69]

Hi there & welcome to EF. First, for general ref, check out the sticky "So you want to compete..." (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394340)

Next, can you tell us somethign about you - current age, height, weight, bodyfat and history of training so far - hard to comment anything on someone's contest prep if you have no idea where they are now.

I'm putting some comments inline below but generally the one thing I can tell you about competition - you either do it or you don't. If you do any part of it half -ass because you can't focus or you don't like this or that, then you really can't blame anyone but yoruself if you dont' like your results on stage on show day because the only thing that matters for the duration of your prep is the result on show day. That's why physique competition is one of the hardest things to pursue - you train literally 24/7 - train, diet, recover, repeat. It impacts your lifestyle, your daily existence and every bit of your patience.

Hey everyone... I'm new on the forum and would like to ask for some advice...

Here is my situation: I am looking to compete (figure... hopefully fitness next year) at the end of june (14 weeks i think) and have more or less already started following a training/dieting regimen as of... well... about 10 days ago. I know it is a bit early, but I feel that I would rather have some extra time to prepare (maybe even do an earlier show if everything goes as planned) because i fear that I may fall behind (i'm the kind of person that gets to an appointment a half hour early... but that's better than being late!). So here are a few question... that I feel like I already know the answers to, but I guess I just need another's opinion here...

14 weeks isn't actually "early" -- my contest prep is more like on a 16 week schedule. Lots of people always end up on stage where they probably could've used another 3-4 weeks of dieting. Its hard to dial in your body if you don't have some experience knowing how fast you respond to the various prep phases.

QUESTION #1:
I try to eat 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat... but my diet seems to alway skew (this time around and every time i have ever dieted before) in the direction of 45/35/20... i don't see a problem with this, if it were up to me, i'd cut out the carbs altogether (cooking veggies is annoying)... but i digress... so the question is: should i try to eat more carbs or not? or maybe less protein and more fat? since everwhere I go someone tells me something different... i was wondering what you guys would have to say about this....

I really can't tell you how critical your carbs are to your diet. You really need to get over the hang up on the starches. Yams, brown rice, oatmeal, etc -- all decent options. The whole wheat muffin is just a pile of shit as far as efficient carb source. Like I said above - if you plan to do contest prep, do contest prep. Anyone who has competed will tell you just how stripped down your diet gets when you get into it. I've literally started crying when my oatmeal was cut out of my diet because it was the only "enjoyable" part of the whole diet. But you aren't doing it to enjoy your meals - you're doing it so you can step on stage prepared. 40/30/30 is a good baseline ratio but I guess that may also depend on where you are now.

QUESTION #2:
... so this brings me to problem #2. My Carbs (AGAIN!). When I write out my daily meal plan... I'm alway SHORT carbs... and not a little bit... i'm usually off by about HALF the carbs I should be eating. I already know the answer to this question... don't just eat veggies... eat potatos and brown rice as well... well... i just don't like them! Simple as that! I know I'm going to have to eat them EVENTUALLY... but I don't see why I can't have a Whole Wheat english muffin instead (8 grams of fiber in those and only a hundred calories)... especially this far out. Fruit is nothing but sugar, and rice cakes (imo) are wasted calories... or maybe I'm wrong... please correct me. So what foods am i left with that i CAN have... if any? I feel so dumb asking this question... since I feel like I already know the answer... lol


See above comment... Food you can have -- when you cut right down to it - protein, carb, fat. What fat sources do you have? I did my first competition on all flax oil fats. I've also done almonds - which IMO taste hella better than flax oil. But at the end of the day, your tastebuds don't matter. To that end I rely on VPX Dietex - it has hoodia in it - works fantastic for me , but apparently doesn't work for everyone - so it may / may not work for you. But you absolutely need to make sure you get your scheduled foods in or you may as well not bother competiting.

QUESTION #3:
I actually enjoy cardio... I do an hour every morning (at what I consider a moderate intensity) and usually an hour after I lift (4-5 times a week). Since I cut my calories to about 10 cal/lb (some have said this is too low... but I don't think so)... it seems I'm burning more calories each day than i'm consuming... good? maybe not... since I am probably burning my hard earned muscle as well. Right? Or wrong? I know a few competitors who do 2 hours of cardio a day as well (although I do not know exactly how much they eat)... but I also know those that do much less... and that this simply depends on the person (well... and what he or she is taking) So should I fight the urge to climb stairs every morning? Eat an extra 100-200 cals? Change the intensity? Or keep doing what I'm doing and adjust later?

If you are 14 weeks out - here's the thing if you aren't eating any complex carbs and doing 2 hrs of cardio every day - your body has to get that fuel from somewhere - since you aren't supplying much in the way of complex carbs you're pretty much catabolizing your muscle.... And as you get closer to your show date, you really dont' have any place to increase your cardio to even more than 2 hrs. And if you are doing 2 hrs of cardio regularly, you are probably already conditioned for it as if you were an endurance athlete, so it won't spur any new response from your body as far as cutting bodyfat. This is NOT about your urges to do cardio or whatever - this is all about beign ready to go on stage on your show date.

QUESTION #4: (Last one... I promise!)
I divide my day into 6 meals (every 3 hours). My problem is that I'm just not good with staying on schedule on the days that I don't have classes (i go to school only 3 days a week). One meal always runs a bit late, then the next, etc... so by the end of the day I have eaten 5 meals... and i'm off to sleep... i don't see that MUCH harm with eating less calories (but again... losing muscle is not my goal here)... so should i make chugging down a protein shake before sleep a habit? or can i skip my last meal?

It is so important to get your food in- if you aren't consistent w/ your eating plan, again what is the point of competition if you can't do what you need to do to be on stage....? There's nothing glamorous about competition prep - its all about regimented, controlled and consistent prep. Diet, training, cardio, recovery....Work harder to hit your eating schedule.

thanks everyone

 

[MsPlatinum]

i did read your sticky...

about me... I'm 23. I've been "seriously" lifting for about 2 and a half years (everything before that doesn't really count since there was no real routine to it, i transitioned into weight lifting from gymnastics, muscle was always easy for me to gain... i always thought of it as a curse up until now actually). I'm about 5'4, i'd say 150lbs at 18% ... hopefully i can track down someone who can use a pair of calipers this week to give me a more accurate reading. I know about doing things half-ass... since that is exactly what i did last year and I don't want to repeat my mistakes (i'm actually 15 weeks away, i just checked). My biggest mistake was allowing someone to convince me that i needed AAS and DID NOT need much cardio. Maybe that's why i'm doing the exact opposite this time around... doing things my own way since i know my body better than i did a year ago... yes i know drugs are a HUGE variable, no i do not plan on taking any at the moment.

I know well that contest prep is non-negotiable... you either do it right or not at all... my problem is that I have heard way too many versions of "right" and "acceptable" that it is getting me confused. Especially since everyone responds differently to different protocols.

I actually do eat oatmeal... i forgot to mention that... and yams aren't bad... i sort of forgot about them... lol (15 weeks away and i'm already losing my mind... not good)

I'm currently not eating much outside of: chicken, tuna, eggs, whites, broccoli, green beans, asparagus, oatmeal and protein powder...
I add almonds and peanut butter (the kind without sugar) for fats, and occasionally have turkey or lean turkey burgers (some people say good some say bad)... i'm not a big fan of dairy, cottage cheese is ok but they add way too much sugar OR salt to it... no happy medium... so i avoid it all together. I'll definitly add in salmon... but I only do that when i get completely sick of the chicken. I do not use condiments (after i found out that barbecue sauce has 12 grams of sugar per serving... it was banished from my fridge), just some spices and this week I will say goodbye to ketchup... *tear*

So if I add in complex carbs as of tomorrow morning. Can I stick with 45 min of cardio in the AM and 30 min after I lift? And an hour on the days i don't lift?

I need to buy some protein powder that has carbs AND fat for post w/o...

Hi there & welcome to EF. First, for general ref, check out the sticky "So you want to compete..." (http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394340)

Next, can you tell us somethign about you - current age, height, weight, bodyfat and history of training so far - hard to comment anything on someone's contest prep if you have no idea where they are now.

I'm putting some comments inline below but generally the one thing I can tell you about competition - you either do it or you don't. If you do any part of it half -ass because you can't focus or you don't like this or that, then you really can't blame anyone but yoruself if you dont' like your results on stage on show day because the only thing that matters for the duration of your prep is the result on show day. That's why physique competition is one of the hardest things to pursue - you train literally 24/7 - train, diet, recover, repeat. It impacts your lifestyle, your daily existence and every bit of your patience.

 

[Sassy69]

OK so at 15 weeks out, got some room to work w/. Do you keep track of what you are eating via a food counts program, e.g. www.fitday.com. This helps ALOT so you know exactly what you are eating.

Couple suggestions -
- get your own set of calipers and if you have to find someone & show them how to do your bodyfat so you can get it done at least 1x /week. That bodyfat is what will help you understand if what you are doing works. For ex, this will tell you if you are losing bodyfat or muscle mass w/ your current diet, training and cardio. If you are, then you can make adjustments in some part of it - more protein, less cardio, whatever. Its sort of a tool to help you understand how your body responds to what you are doing. Its a bit hard when you have so many variables w/ the diet, training & cardio but if you hold all of it steady and adjust one thing at a time you can draw some conclusions. I would also keep track of not only your total bodyfat changes but also the different measure points (make sure whoever does your bodyfat is consistent w/ how they measure -the absolute number doesn't matter as much as being consistent in taking the measure and looking at the relative changes) -- this can also help you understand better where your body likes to hold fat or store water if its that time of the month or you are eatihng something that makes you retain water. Its interesting and also gives you more information about what you should expect or just learn more about how your body works.

- cardio on an empty stomach - this could be AM cardio before eating, cardio about 2 hrs after you eat (if we assume your body metabolizes a meal in 2-3 hrs, 2 hrs later you should be in a near "empty stomach" state), or after you train (assumes the trainin has burned up your readily available energy sources from eating and you are sort of 'empty stomach' by the time you complete your training. These are not completely 100% accurate, but they are close to being in an optimal state to get the most bodyfat burning from cardio.

- what kind of cardio do you do? All steady-state? Consider exchanging some of those long sessions for shorter HIIT sessions.

- take a look at how you are burning bodyfat / muscle mass -- that may give you a reason to cut back your cardio so that you have a place to increase it to as you get closer to show time. You might consider not doing it every day right now. Don't freak out about OMG I DIDNT" DO CARDIO I"M GONNA GET FAT. Its about effective burn rates but not cutting too soon.

- Put a complex carb like oatmeal in your Meal 1 -- like 1/2 c = 30-35 g + 30 g protein to start your day. Work out what a 30% carbs amounts to if you spread out the complex carbs over say every other meal. Make sure you get veggies in almost every meal - your veggie list is fine. I do a lot of broccoli and then nuke it at whatever meal time. Then make your last meal something that has no carbs in it but has some fats -- say a protein shake that is low fat & low carb, has around 35 g of protein (e.g. 1.5 scoops or however it is sized) and then put in some flax seed oil -- e.g. 1 tbsp. This will help slow down the rate of metabolism of this last meal to keep you from getting hungry in the middle of the night. For post work out I'd go w/ a protein mix and a fast-absorbing carb and not a fat. Some people do a mix of something like gatorade + protein mix. I personally have always just done a protein mix and not worry so much about the fats or carbs. Don't do a fat after you train tho -- because you've burned up all your glycogen, this is one of the best times for your body to best absorb carbs.

I don't know how picky you are as far as food & flavors in your meals -- there are all sorts of preparation ideas in the recipe sticky at the top of the board. Some things I've done to help handle the blandness of food -

- yams - I stick like 1 packet of splenda on it -- its like freakin' candy!
- protein mix - i can't deal w/ the consistency of a protein mix + water any more. If you put in just enough water to make it sort of pastey + some splenda + a little no fat no sugar pudding mix = sort of a protein pudding. Its even better if the meal at the moment needs protein + fat- mix in a tbsp of natural peanut butter.
- chicken, etc. - I grill a lot of stuff & use seasonings. Watch the amount of sodium in your seasonings. I actually do a lot of pepper and cayenne.

- protein pancakes -- the really stripped down version -- 1/2 c oatmeal -make it as you would normally (but light on the water so its not runny), add 1 scoop protein mix + 1-2 splendas, mix it all up and then throw in 1 whole egg + 1 egg white, makes like a pancake batter, throw it in a pan and make a big pancake. I eat this stuff every morning - it covers my 30 g complex carb + about 35 g protein between the protein mix & the eggs. Splenda makes it not taste like cardboard

 

[MsPlatinum]

thank you so much for all the help!

OK so at 15 weeks out, got some room to work w/. Do you keep track of what you are eating via a food counts program, e.g. www.fitday.com. This helps ALOT so you know exactly what you are eating.

i use calorie king... best 50 bucks i ever spent! i think its the only one that the make for mac...

Couple suggestions -
- get your own set of calipers and if you have to find someone & show them how to do your bodyfat so you can get it done at least 1x /week. That bodyfat is what will help you understand if what you are doing works. For ex, this will tell you if you are losing bodyfat or muscle mass w/ your current diet, training and cardio. If you are, then you can make adjustments in some part of it - more protein, less cardio, whatever. Its sort of a tool to help you understand how your body responds to what you are doing. Its a bit hard when you have so many variables w/ the diet, training & cardio but if you hold all of it steady and adjust one thing at a time you can draw some conclusions. I would also keep track of not only your total bodyfat changes but also the different measure points (make sure whoever does your bodyfat is consistent w/ how they measure -the absolute number doesn't matter as much as being consistent in taking the measure and looking at the relative changes) -- this can also help you understand better where your body likes to hold fat or store water if its that time of the month or you are eatihng something that makes you retain water. Its interesting and also gives you more information about what you should expect or just learn more about how your body works.

that time of the month... i simply skip those days from taking measurements since it's no harm to wait a few extra days... as far as the calipers, that's a great idea!

- cardio on an empty stomach - this could be AM cardio before eating, cardio about 2 hrs after you eat (if we assume your body metabolizes a meal in 2-3 hrs, 2 hrs later you should be in a near "empty stomach" state), or after you train (assumes the trainin has burned up your readily available energy sources from eating and you are sort of 'empty stomach' by the time you complete your training. These are not completely 100% accurate, but they are close to being in an optimal state to get the most bodyfat burning from cardio.

yes! i'm already doing something right!

- what kind of cardio do you do? All steady-state? Consider exchanging some of those long sessions for shorter HIIT sessions.

it really depends... i go to school, a lot of reading this semester, and it just so happens that the only time i can really read is when i do cardio (usually 10-15 degree incline on tradmill 3-4 mph)... for some reason i just can't sit at home and peacefully read! that's why i end up doing so much cardio! i guess i shouldn't have let it become a habit. I do mix things up, i do intervals on the stairmill, sometimes intervals on elliptical.

- take a look at how you are burning bodyfat / muscle mass -- that may give you a reason to cut back your cardio so that you have a place to increase it to as you get closer to show time. You might consider not doing it every day right now. Don't freak out about OMG I DIDNT" DO CARDIO I"M GONNA GET FAT. Its about effective burn rates but not cutting too soon.

- Put a complex carb like oatmeal in your Meal 1 -- like 1/2 c = 30-35 g + 30 g protein to start your day. Work out what a 30% carbs amounts to if you spread out the complex carbs over say every other meal. Make sure you get veggies in almost every meal - your veggie list is fine. I do a lot of broccoli and then nuke it at whatever meal time. Then make your last meal something that has no carbs in it but has some fats -- say a protein shake that is low fat & low carb, has around 35 g of protein (e.g. 1.5 scoops or however it is sized) and then put in some flax seed oil -- e.g. 1 tbsp. This will help slow down the rate of metabolism of this last meal to keep you from getting hungry in the middle of the night. For post work out I'd go w/ a protein mix and a fast-absorbing carb and not a fat. Some people do a mix of something like gatorade + protein mix. I personally have always just done a protein mix and not worry so much about the fats or carbs. Don't do a fat after you train tho -- because you've burned up all your glycogen, this is one of the best times for your body to best absorb carbs.

i used to put maltodextrin in my shakes... gotta get on that

I don't know how picky you are as far as food & flavors in your meals -- there are all sorts of preparation ideas in the recipe sticky at the top of the board. Some things I've done to help handle the blandness of food -

- yams - I stick like 1 packet of splenda on it -- its like freakin' candy!
- protein mix - i can't deal w/ the consistency of a protein mix + water any more. If you put in just enough water to make it sort of pastey + some splenda + a little no fat no sugar pudding mix = sort of a protein pudding. Its even better if the meal at the moment needs protein + fat- mix in a tbsp of natural peanut butter.
- chicken, etc. - I grill a lot of stuff & use seasonings. Watch the amount of sodium in your seasonings. I actually do a lot of pepper and cayenne.

- protein pancakes -- the really stripped down version -- 1/2 c oatmeal -make it as you would normally (but light on the water so its not runny), add 1 scoop protein mix + 1-2 splendas, mix it all up and then throw in 1 whole egg + 1 egg white, makes like a pancake batter, throw it in a pan and make a big pancake. I eat this stuff every morning - it covers my 30 g complex carb + about 35 g protein between the protein mix & the eggs. Splenda makes it not taste like cardboard

that's my EXACT breakfast half the time... except i use all whites. And i put splenda and equal on anything i could... also a big fan of coke zero and sugar free jello. I overdosed on crystal light last year, so i figure for now diet soda isn't "bad"...

 

[Sassy69]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Only comment w/ the sodas, I generally try to drink at least 2x the amount in water for each soda - e.g. 12 oz soda, 24 oz water -- just to keep the filtering going on in your body.

As far as the cardio thing - yes I understand it helps burn fat, etc. but the whole thing when you are in contest prep is to do a gradual ramp up in conditioning your body - stimulating small changes as you go instead of getting conditioned to stay at one level and maintain. So I'd just say be aware of when you are doing cardio & your schedule - yes I know things are hard w/ school & the schedule is tight and all that, but try to pay attention to it -- again - if you are willing to be on stage next to people who are tighter than you because of some slippage in your prep, then go for it. That's just the catch-22 of competition prep. How much can you afford to give to hit it perfectly on stage? (And that doesn't even accommodate the chances of your body not responding like you thought, you might get sick, and all the other uncontrollable conditions that happen w/ prep...)

But does sound like you are on the right track w/ a couple little tweaks that will leave room for you to have a scheduled and predictable increase in your prep activitis as you get closer.

 

[MsPlatinum]

thanks for all the tips!

Sounds like you're on the right track. Only comment w/ the sodas, I generally try to drink at least 2x the amount in water for each soda - e.g. 12 oz soda, 24 oz water -- just to keep the filtering going on in your body.

As far as the cardio thing - yes I understand it helps burn fat, etc. but the whole thing when you are in contest prep is to do a gradual ramp up in conditioning your body - stimulating small changes as you go instead of getting conditioned to stay at one level and maintain. So I'd just say be aware of when you are doing cardio & your schedule - yes I know things are hard w/ school & the schedule is tight and all that, but try to pay attention to it -- again - if you are willing to be on stage next to people who are tighter than you because of some slippage in your prep, then go for it. That's just the catch-22 of competition prep. How much can you afford to give to hit it perfectly on stage? (And that doesn't even accommodate the chances of your body not responding like you thought, you might get sick, and all the other uncontrollable conditions that happen w/ prep...)

But does sound like you are on the right track w/ a couple little tweaks that will leave room for you to have a scheduled and predictable increase in your prep activitis as you get closer.