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royale13ii
New member
Any exercises you recommend?
Need strong Hip Flexors !
- Thread starter royale13ii
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ChinkNasty
New member
yea, various raises on the Roman chair
buy one of those ankle braces that you can hook on to the cable racks and do extensions and lifts/raises...those have helped me a lot
buy one of those ankle braces that you can hook on to the cable racks and do extensions and lifts/raises...those have helped me a lot
C
curgeo
Guest
Kneeling squats....wide stance goodmornings....wrap a band around your knees and do an abduction with the feet wide and the lower back arched off a low box, pause squats with the toes out and dropping very low. Work your abs with the legs spread eagled.
Kneeling squats were a staple with me for a while to get my hips stronger.
Kneeling squats were a staple with me for a while to get my hips stronger.
bignate73
New member
anything that causes the hip to bend. leg lifts, roman chair situps, hanging leg raises, spread eagle straight leg situps.
not sure what some of the other guys were saying, most of them got hip extension mixed with hip flexion. remember: extension....bigger angle in the hip, flexion....smaller angle.
not sure what some of the other guys were saying, most of them got hip extension mixed with hip flexion. remember: extension....bigger angle in the hip, flexion....smaller angle.
Hanging leg raises (put your feet together, keep your legs straight and lift until parallel with the ground) are usually the best.
I wouldn't do lying leg raises or straight legged situps due to the strain it places on your back since it originates from the lumbar spine. Lying single leg raises are okay however as the motion of the pelvis and lumbar spine is controlled.
I wouldn't do lying leg raises or straight legged situps due to the strain it places on your back since it originates from the lumbar spine. Lying single leg raises are okay however as the motion of the pelvis and lumbar spine is controlled.
Box Squats, Good Mornings (wide), full ROM straight legged sit ups with weight.
B True
B True
wnt2bBeast
New member
b fold the truth said:
Amen to that..
I dont see how doing leg raises would be superior to doing a 500 lb box squat???
make sure you are pausing on the box and releasing the hip flexors otherwise all you are doing is marking depth..
nothing wrong with doing all the other stuff mentioned just that some thingfs are far better than others
wnt2bBeast
New member
coolcolj said:
ok do me a favor squat down on a low box and let me know where you feel it???
next youre going to tell me that you can actually isoalte the upper inner outter part of the pec too??? lol
coolcolj
New member
I can feel my biceps activate when I bench, doesn't mean it's the best way to work it.. 
Whereas if I were rowing, the biceps are actually getting resistance in the right direction. Interestingly my triceps get activated when I row, but I doubt its the best way to hit em either
Whereas if I were rowing, the biceps are actually getting resistance in the right direction. Interestingly my triceps get activated when I row, but I doubt its the best way to hit em either
wnt2bBeast
New member
coolcolj said:I can feel my biceps activate when I bench, doesn't mean it's the best way to work it..
Whereas if I were rowing, the biceps are actually getting resistance in the right direction. Interestingly my triceps get activated when I row, but I doubt its the best way to hit em either
all i know is my hips have gotten stronger from box squatting..im fairly close to an 800 lb squat.. what does that mean? nothing.. all i know is my hips have grown and gotten stronger..besides doing various supplemetal work..I ONLY box squat..I test my free squat every 12 weeks or so but i dont even need to do that since i know i get around 80lbs carryover from the box
and for the record i think heavy rowing is better for the bi's than doing some stupid isoaltion curl with 20% of the weight used for rows
wnt2bBeast
New member
so Louie Simmons i wrong?coolcolj said:
ehh doesnt really matter
bignate73
New member
no louie isnt wrong, but he is misinterpreted. you release that muscle so you have no reciprocal inhibition, no opposing muscle group inhibiting firing off when your posterior chain fires off the box. and colin is right, you can release your biceps on the bottom of a board press too.
D
Debaser
Guest
wnt2bBeast said:
What do you mean by this? Your primary hip flexor is the psoas. Even if these did grow, you wouldn't be able to notice it in the mirror.
Considering the hips flex, extend, internally and externally rotate, abduct and adduct, saying your hips are stronger or bigger is pretty vague.
coolcolj said:
It is cool if you don't want to believe that the box squat will work the hip flexors. W-I-D-E box squats with heavy weight and lots of band tension to a deep box has not only made my hip flexors but many other's hip flexors stronger and sore.
You know...the hamstrings pull the ankle to the buttox with the knee being the pivital point. Strange, isn't it, that the Stiff Legged Deadlift does not pull the ankle to the buttox yet it REALLY works the hamstrings.
Just a thought...
B True
wnt2bBeast
New member
Debaser said:
what i mean is get under some fucking weight
everyone here is a goddamn anatomy specialist yet they cant squat 500
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
dont know how you do boards presses but completely relax te shoulders tris whole upper body keep air in and push the belly up then fire off the board
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
It's not strange, because that isn't the only function of the hamstrings. They're also hip extensors.
bignate73
New member
you guys are getting thigh flexors (hamstrings) mixed up with hip flexors (illiopsoas). the term "hips" as it pertains to the posterior chain is correct when talking about box squats etc, they are strengthened because they are hip extensors. thats what gets you off the box. hip flexors are what make your legs go up on a leg lift. if you fire off your hip flexors really hard doing a box squat....you do a face plant!
bignate73 said:
Actually...no. I'm not talking about the HIPS at all. I am talking about the hip flexors. The hip FLEXORS will strengthen from box squats....if you squat WIDE and LOW.
B True
Debaser said:
Wow...so every muscle doesn't have just ONE purpose? lol
Just curious but have you done a really heavy box squat with a WIDE (collar to collar or wider) stance to a low box with LOTS of band tension before?
B True
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
why is it after doing box squats i have a hard time doing leg raises??
i think you should all take B's advice and do a true low wide box squat and then report back here lol..
Also feel free to head over to www.elitefts.com and tell Dave Tate that he is wrong and that Louie and those guys have been wrong all these years..Im sure they would like to know
wnt2bBeast
New member
also i dont think anyone has mentioned it yet
but pulling a weighted sled in a dynamic fashion is also good for the hip flexors
but pulling a weighted sled in a dynamic fashion is also good for the hip flexors
Jim Ouini
New member
wnt2bBeast
New member
Jim Ouini said:
maybe its me but i dont see your point
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
Um, the hip flexors essentially play the same role in a box squat as the triceps do in a row.
With lots of band tension they have to play a bit more of a braking role, and more of an isometric role, but so what? They're not a prime mover, and that's that.
I don't know how the hell you would know your hip flexors are sore, though. There's so many surrounding muscles it would be hard to know that your psoas are sore.
Jim Ouini
New member
wnt2bBeast said:
I thought the gist of the discussion was whether box squats worked the hamstrings or hip flexors.
You seemed to imply that Dave Tate would agree that it works the hip flexors, as per the original question.
I quoted from an article by him in my post above where he says that it's primarily for hams/glutes, and that the hip flexors should relax on the box.
Actually, I just started box squatting in part because of that article by Dave Tate since I wanted to strengthen by ham/glutes for my squat. If it's for the hip flexors I'd really like to know so I can try something else.
wnt2bBeast
New member
Jim Ouini said:
Box squatting in the same fashion as WSB will increase your squat tremendously!!! youre absolutely right relax/release the hip flexors on the box then reflex on the way up
I can kick myself in the ass for not doing them sooner..
there are a lot of yodas some have even posted in this thread lol..
personally i dont give a shit if box squats do this or do that..i will tell you if you want a big squat get under some iron and get your ass on the box..
i dont mean to insult anyone but most of the "analytical" types in this thread are squatting what mid 3's mid 4's??i know chicks that dead more than that
wnt2bBeast
New member
Heres some info for the experts lol..using the search function at www.elitefts.com typing in "hip flexors"
heres one yoda's question...
I know you talk about squatting with the hip flexors. I found this piece of information on the goheavy.com OLY site. Is what they say correct or when you say hip flexors are you talking about the same thing as this guy is?
"There are 3 muscles (hip flexors) that flex the hip joint. One of them originates (most proximal bony attachment) from the lumbar spine (lower back), and the other two attach to the pelvis - one on the inside back portion and one on the front. All 3 of the muscles insert (most distal bony attachment) onto the anterior (front) upper feumur (thigh bone). As you may know, muscles cause movement by contracting or shortening. The maximum amount of force, or tension they're able to produce is a simplified way of defining strength. So, given the information I just gave you, any contraction of the hip flexors (let's assume for now that the force of the contraction is enough to overcome any resistance encountered) will bring the two bony attachment points toward one another. If the feet are free to move (let's say you're just standing there), activation of the hip flexors will bring your thigh toward your abdomen. If your feet are anchored somehow, the hip flexors will bring your torso down toward your thigh. This is what the hip flexors do.
Now, Joel, if you're attempting to squat a heavy barbell the last thing you would want is hip flexor activity. In reality, when squatting, there is probably some hip flexor muscle activity that occurs, but this would be strictly for stabilization purposes and NOT an attempt to flex the hip.
Let me know if this makes any sense. Hopefully you can see hip flexion is highly undesireable during squatting. When you're squatting, all efforts are being made to extend (opposite of flex) the hip. In fact, the only time hip flexors might be used during WL is when aggressively pulling under a snatch or clean.
Eric Burkhardt Strength and Conditioning Coach UC Irvine "
Tate's Answer
Let me ask you this? If you squat with a very wide stance and sit down to a low box (10 to 12 inches) where do you feel the tension?
heres one yoda's question...
I know you talk about squatting with the hip flexors. I found this piece of information on the goheavy.com OLY site. Is what they say correct or when you say hip flexors are you talking about the same thing as this guy is?
"There are 3 muscles (hip flexors) that flex the hip joint. One of them originates (most proximal bony attachment) from the lumbar spine (lower back), and the other two attach to the pelvis - one on the inside back portion and one on the front. All 3 of the muscles insert (most distal bony attachment) onto the anterior (front) upper feumur (thigh bone). As you may know, muscles cause movement by contracting or shortening. The maximum amount of force, or tension they're able to produce is a simplified way of defining strength. So, given the information I just gave you, any contraction of the hip flexors (let's assume for now that the force of the contraction is enough to overcome any resistance encountered) will bring the two bony attachment points toward one another. If the feet are free to move (let's say you're just standing there), activation of the hip flexors will bring your thigh toward your abdomen. If your feet are anchored somehow, the hip flexors will bring your torso down toward your thigh. This is what the hip flexors do.
Now, Joel, if you're attempting to squat a heavy barbell the last thing you would want is hip flexor activity. In reality, when squatting, there is probably some hip flexor muscle activity that occurs, but this would be strictly for stabilization purposes and NOT an attempt to flex the hip.
Let me know if this makes any sense. Hopefully you can see hip flexion is highly undesireable during squatting. When you're squatting, all efforts are being made to extend (opposite of flex) the hip. In fact, the only time hip flexors might be used during WL is when aggressively pulling under a snatch or clean.
Eric Burkhardt Strength and Conditioning Coach UC Irvine "
Tate's Answer
Let me ask you this? If you squat with a very wide stance and sit down to a low box (10 to 12 inches) where do you feel the tension?
wnt2bBeast
New member
another
I looking for an exercise to strengthen my hip flexors. How are kneeling squats performed? (Sorry, I fundamentally lack a clear understanding of this exercise) Can you suggest other exercises. Thanks in advance.
Wendler's Answer
Glenn,
Try doing some ankle dragging. This is a great exercise for your hip flexors. A kneeling squat is just like it sounds; place a barbell on your back while on your knees and sit back much like a child would when watching TV. There is an example of a kneeling squat in the Squat Workout.
I looking for an exercise to strengthen my hip flexors. How are kneeling squats performed? (Sorry, I fundamentally lack a clear understanding of this exercise) Can you suggest other exercises. Thanks in advance.
Wendler's Answer
Glenn,
Try doing some ankle dragging. This is a great exercise for your hip flexors. A kneeling squat is just like it sounds; place a barbell on your back while on your knees and sit back much like a child would when watching TV. There is an example of a kneeling squat in the Squat Workout.
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
again try some ankle dragging
or around the waist..remember to add some weight
coolcolj
New member
I feel it in my hamstrings, glutes and spinal erectors
they are the prime movers in box squat. Sure the hip flexors tense, but they are just stablisers, not prime movers. In the same way the pecs flex when your deadlifting, but one would say benching would hit them directly much better.
they are the prime movers in box squat. Sure the hip flexors tense, but they are just stablisers, not prime movers. In the same way the pecs flex when your deadlifting, but one would say benching would hit them directly much better.
wnt2bBeast
New member
coolcolj said:I feel it in my hamstrings, glutes and spinal erectors
they are the prime movers in box squat. Sure the hip flexors tense, but they are just stablisers, not prime movers. In the same way the pecs flex when your deadlifting, but one would say benching would hit them directly much better.
i take the pecs out of the move when benching shirted or non shirted
so what you are saying is since they are not a prim mover a 500 lb box squat where they are used as a "stabilizer" is meaningless...and you should do some hanging leg raises??? no thanks
coolcolj
New member
all the muscles flex in the body when every you do any more, some dynamicly and some isometricly
boxsquating will work it isometricly, but if you want to hit it dynamicly, they don't flex in the direction that you box squat in. Now if you put the barbell ontop your thighs and curl it toward you that would hit it dynamicly.
It same way you can work your grip isometricly by doing time holds or dynamicly with a gripper, but I would say there is no actual gravity induced load on the hip flexor itself in a box squat apart from you actually tensing em isometricly
boxsquating will work it isometricly, but if you want to hit it dynamicly, they don't flex in the direction that you box squat in. Now if you put the barbell ontop your thighs and curl it toward you that would hit it dynamicly.
It same way you can work your grip isometricly by doing time holds or dynamicly with a gripper, but I would say there is no actual gravity induced load on the hip flexor itself in a box squat apart from you actually tensing em isometricly
wnt2bBeast
New member
coolcolj said:
you completely lost me..
i just lift weights!!!!
bignate73
New member
ankle dragging walking forward, absolutely. its like a weighted leg raise. ankle dragging walking backward, no, its like a single leg rev hyper, its glute work.
i think too much is being read into on the elitefts quotes. one half is the answer, the other half is superfluous info referring to again, the posterior chain. ie. ankle dragging then into seated squats.
sincerely,
yoda
i think too much is being read into on the elitefts quotes. one half is the answer, the other half is superfluous info referring to again, the posterior chain. ie. ankle dragging then into seated squats.
sincerely,
yoda
wnt2bBeast
New member
most people that dont lift westside criticize it as too this or too that..which is fine..
honestly i really dont care if box squats work my hip flexor or my left testicle..I do know one thing it makes my squat go up..
i never disagreed hanging leg raises didnt work the flexors..i throw em in when i get tired of ab pull downs incline sits
honestly i really dont care if box squats work my hip flexor or my left testicle..I do know one thing it makes my squat go up..
i never disagreed hanging leg raises didnt work the flexors..i throw em in when i get tired of ab pull downs incline sits
Debaser said:
So...to recap what SHOULD have been your answer to me...
"No, I have never done a box squat, especially not one with a WIDE stance to a deep box with heavy weight or with lots of band tension. Therefore I can not really say for sure how the box squat performed in that manner would really affect the hip flexors."
Comparing the hip flexors in the box squat to the tricpes in the row...is not accurate in my opinion.
If you want to make any muscle the "prive mover" then you have to break down and train with exercises like kick backs, leg extensions, leg curls, pec flyes, concentration curls, etc... Just in case you missed it...I said that he should also do straight legged full ROM sit ups with weights. BUT, I still feel that if he spent his time doing box squats as I have suggested...he would have stronger hip flexors (among other things which are important) than had he just done leg raises and sit ups.
Well, if you say that I could not tell if my hip flexors were sore from doing box squats...then I'll say that you can't tell if they are sore from leg raises either. If you can't tell that they are sore...then you also shouldn't be able to feel them when you are training them with ANY method.
Of course...you would have to squat and train your legs to know that...
B True
wnt2bBeast said:
You are debating with a couple of pretty intelligent guys who really study weight training, are pretty open minded, and will offer you advice on how to improve. Those two guys are great and well respected...I think that we both know that.
Now...some others only come onto threads like these to criticize and put down what others are doing without offering ANY advice. Funny...those guys that are giving advice to hard core squatters (like we ALL are) don't even train their legs.
I do some hanging leg raises several times a year. I have all kinds of fun with them, especially with strengthening my entire core in a different direction. For some reason...they really seem to help my deadlift just a little as well as my Conan's Wheel. I also think that they are cool because I'll try to touch my feet over the bar and feel like a gynmast...lol.
B True
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
First of all, I like how you keep saying I don't train my legs, which is disingenuous at the least. Lunges, one-legged squats, one and two-legged deadlifts, step-ups, split-squats, and bridges all make their way into my training cycle.
"Comparing the hip flexors in the box squat to the tricpes in the row...is not accurate in my opinion." Care to explain WHY?
You say that for a muscle to be a prime mover you must do isolation exercises, which is totally FALSE. In the bench press, the chest is a prime mover, for example. So are the triceps. The elbow extends right? So the triceps are a prime mover. What about the biceps? Of course not. Yet they play the same role that the psoas do in a squat (isometrically contract).
When did I ever say that you SHOULD feel them sore after hanging leg raises? When did I ever mention FEELING them at all? When did I even mention hanging leg raises, or any other hip FLEXION movement? Terrible, irrelevent argument. The argument that you are ridiculously proposing is that a hip extension movement is a great hip flexor exercise. But then again, you couldn't explain why stiff-legged deadlifts work the hamstrings, either. You thought they just flexed the knee. Grab a basic anatomy textbook if you want to actually ground your arguments in some knowledge.
wnt2bBeast
New member
b fold the truth said:
intelligence is fine..but it needs to be backed up by something..
Louie is a genious and has totalled elite in 4 different weight classes..I know you know all that lol
I jsut think there comes a point when "paralysis by analysis" takes over..
if one is so smart yet cant even lift there way out of a paper bag..then how smart are they????
i cant believe i even argued as much as i did..because like i said bottom line it really dont matter to me..Flexor or extensor..box squat=bigger squats and for me that is all that matters..ill let the guys with the lab coats figure it all out till then pass the chalk!!!
wnt2bBeast said:intelligence is fine..but it needs to be backed up by something..
Louie is a genious and has totalled elite in 4 different weight classes..I know you know all that lol
I jsut think there comes a point when "paralysis by analysis" takes over..
if one is so smart yet cant even lift there way out of a paper bag..then how smart are they????
i cant believe i even argued as much as i did..because like i said bottom line it really dont matter to me..Flexor or extensor..box squat=bigger squats and for me that is all that matters..ill let the guys with the lab coats figure it all out till then pass the chalk!!!
Bignate and CCJ are all about the performance too man. That is one big reason why I respect them so much. Did you know that Bignate was a competitive bodybuilder not too many years ago? Seriously...looked freaking impressive.
CCJ has came a long way and is a hard core trainer too. The guy trains hard, VERY hard, with hard core exercises. If it ain't helping him...he ain't gonna do them. Have to respect that. And...he knows his stuff and loves to offer some good advice. He loves to squat (that HAS to mean something good about the man).
He used to, might still, make music as well. Used to have a sweet website with some really cool tunes. Studies, puts it to work, anazyzes, and repeats. Anything those guys say...I'll at least spend some time looking at and thinking about. I know that they have done their home work as well as their sweatwork.
Other people though...well...what can you say about someone who doesn't squat? Especially when they are telling you the all and all about box squats.
Torn up foot...and I'll be box squatting again tomorrow.
B True
bignate73 said:
Heck yeah man...
If you get stronger...the rest is just details.
B True
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
Funny how ignorance can color one's perspective. Thousands of athletes pay top dollar to work with Mike Leahy, including top bodybuilders and powerlifters. But of course, Dr. Leahy doesn't bench press, so they must be idiots for frequenting the clinic of someone who SURELY has no idea what he's doing. Same with Pete Egoscue, so I'll go ahead and forward the message to Junior Seau, Jack Nicklaus, Jeff Lynch, et al that they're wasting their time. The nerve of all these athletes, many of whom have personally owed their awards and titles to these practitioners. What the fuck do they know?
Oh, and good luck with the box squats. I'm sure your hip flexors will get thrashed yet again by a hip extension exercise.
blut wump
New member
One of the hip flexors is the Rectus Femoris which is one of the four Quadriceps muscles and the only one that crosses the hip joint. This crossing of the hip joint enables it to operate as a hip flexor as well as a knee extensor (straightening the knee).
This sounds like a squatting muscle to me.
I've been doing wide box squats for a month since bfold recommended them which hardly makes me an expert but does let me know for sure what they make ache. There's no question that the hip flexors are in the mix.
This sounds like a squatting muscle to me.
I've been doing wide box squats for a month since bfold recommended them which hardly makes me an expert but does let me know for sure what they make ache. There's no question that the hip flexors are in the mix.
Blut Wump said:
What do we know though man?
Really glad that they are working for you. Any knee problems? Any other problems from them? I know a lot of people, when they first start, have hip flexor issues from them because they stress them so much. Some even have hip issues because of the wide stance.
B True
Debaser said:
I'm not Dr. Mike Leahy and neither are you. I'm not Pete Egoscue either...and neither are you. Don't let the ignorance color your perspective...or is that lack of experience?
No idea what he is doing? Got me...I bench press about once every few months...if that. It isn't my goal...so I hardly ever do it. I don't know much about building a strong bench press...so you won't find me jumping all over a thread about how to build the bench press. If there is a thread about overhead presses or close grips...I'll chime in a bit...since I've done quite a bit of both.
Go ahead man, stand up, suck it in, be a man and admit that you don't know diddly about box squatting with a wide stance to a deep box with bands. But now I'm wondering if Dr. Mike Leahy or Pete Egoscue have squatted with a wide stance to a deep box with lots of band tension.
I do know that both myself as well as Louie Simmons have...and both of us have decent squats and decent hip flexors.
Don't trash what you don't know anything about. I'll not comment on bodybuilding when I know that Needsize and Nate know so much about it. I for sure will NOT argue with them about it. I'll not argue with CCJ about OLY lifting. He has done more OLY lifting in a month than I've done in my entire life. I will not argue with you about the greatness of the books, literature, and hard work of other people either. I'm sure that your mentors have worked very very hard and know THEIR stuff as well.
Seriously...why not be an assett to this and other boards and give some actual kind-hearted advice instead of making your primary goal on the internet to discredit someone elses posts. It is very easy to sit back and point fingers to those giving advice when you never give any yourself.
B True
blut wump
New member
I don't seem to be having any problems with the box-squats that I'm aware of besides a general stiffness in, you guessed, my hip flexors. I've increased the amount of general stretching I do to compensate and warm up. I like the wide stance; it feels very pleasantly solid as in having a good base to push against. My knees are feeling just fine.b fold the truth said:What do we know though man?
Really glad that they are working for you. Any knee problems? Any other problems from them? I know a lot of people, when they first start, have hip flexor issues from them because they stress them so much. Some even have hip issues because of the wide stance.
B True
On this flexor/extensor issue: when theory disagrees with practice, only politics should inhibit doubt of the theory.
Blut Wump said:
Dude...that is really great to hear. Do you think that you will be doing regular type squats again from time to time? I did find that I like to do some light front squats or OLY squats every once in a while for variation or to put more emphasis on my quads.
Make sure not to over train/strain those muscles...take it slow. After I hurt my foot I took the week off for the contest that weekend. Didn't get to squat at that show (too injured) and I didn't squat the week after. The week after that I went LIGHT on the box squats and boy was I so sore!!!!
B True
blut wump
New member
This past month I've been squatting 3x per week on the madcow 5x5 program so it has been kind of tough. I've been deepsquatting on M/F and box-squats on Weds to around two inch above parallel. My biggest concern has been that the box-squats would interfere with my deadlifts.b fold the truth said:Dude...that is really great to hear. Do you think that you will be doing regular type squats again from time to time? I did find that I like to do some light front squats or OLY squats every once in a while for variation or to put more emphasis on my quads.
Make sure not to over train/strain those muscles...take it slow. After I hurt my foot I took the week off for the contest that weekend. Didn't get to squat at that show (too injured) and I didn't squat the week after. The week after that I went LIGHT on the box squats and boy was I so sore!!!!
B True
From next week, the program calls for me to drop a squat session as I go into the deload phase and I've yet to decide how to take it through the rest of the period.
D
Debaser
Guest
Blut Wump said:
Note that I said both Psoas and "primary hip flexor" multiple times. The sartorius is a hip flexor too (among other tasks) but that wasn't mentioned, among the others.
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
Yeah, because according to you, they'd HAVE to have done them to know how they work biomechanically. Even though muscle actions and biomechanics of every possible movement are EXHAUSTIVELY DOCUMENTED.
I can't believe you're actually making the argument that since I don't box squat, then I can't comment on the musculature that's involved. That's like a pilot telling a Lockheed engineer that he shouldn't tell him how his plane works, since he doesn't fly it. At best, that's complete ignorance.
omigod.
To work the hip flexors, flex the hips.
You can flex it from the bottom -> this is called a "leg raise"
Or you can flex it from the top -> this is called a "situp," not to be confused with a "crunch"
THAT'S IT.
do box squats activate or not activate the hip flexor. WHO CARES? There are better exercises for it anyway. Do box squats because they make big important muscles like the quads and glutes stronger, not for an unclear effect on a peripheral muscle group.
To work the hip flexors, flex the hips.
You can flex it from the bottom -> this is called a "leg raise"
Or you can flex it from the top -> this is called a "situp," not to be confused with a "crunch"
THAT'S IT.
do box squats activate or not activate the hip flexor. WHO CARES? There are better exercises for it anyway. Do box squats because they make big important muscles like the quads and glutes stronger, not for an unclear effect on a peripheral muscle group.
Tom Treutlein
New member
I honestly think this has gotten out of hand, and that casual made the most concise post on this thread.
Then again, it's the internet, I'm tired, and this is entertaining. ^_^
Then again, it's the internet, I'm tired, and this is entertaining. ^_^
Debaser said:
You are laughable, at best...lol.
I love all your analogies...haaaa. So...who is the lockhead engineer? You? And I should not argue with you (since I am the pilot here?) about how my body works? Actually...the Lockhead engineer should NOT tell the Pilot how to work a difficult move in the air...since he has never done it and has ZERO experience in that situation.
If you get the chance...why don't you go call up some world class bench presser and tell him that according to the chart in the gym...only the chest, shoulders, and triceps are involved in HIS lift. Argue with him that the legs are NOT involved while you are at it. Well...I guess you could argue with him as long as you had never flat bench pressed.
Look at this page on this thread. You have 3 people who are all box squatting telling you that it DOES work the hip flexors A LOT. Then...there are people who do NOT box squat telling us that the box squat does NOT work the hip flexors. Does that REALLY make sense to you?
So why is it, again, that myself, w2b, and Louie Simmons all have strong hip flexors and we box squat per WSB? Since the box squat does NOT strengthen those muscles...it should be near impossible...
Still...we are waiting for that piece of "help" that you plan to bring to the table...instead of the criticizm.
B True
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
You want help? Take a fucking reading comprehension class. A child could have gotten that analogy, yet you misinterpreted it, and made a strawman argument. You're saying an engineer shouldn't tell a pilot how to fly a plane, but that's NOT what I said. I said a pilot shouldn't tell an engineer that he doesn't know how the plane operates, simply because he doesn't fly it.
I don't care that a whopping THREE people from this thread box squat, and claim it works the hip flexors a lot. If THREE THOUSAND people in a thread said that the biceps get worked in the bench press A LOT, would that make them fucking right? No, that would make 3000 idiots posting in a thread. I can't believe this is your evidence.
Nor can I believe this:
"So why is it, again, that myself, w2b, and Louie Simmons all have strong hip flexors and we box squat per WSB? Since the box squat does NOT strengthen those muscles...it should be near impossible..."
WHAT?! Are you seriously making this fucking argument? COULD IT BE THAT YOU GUYS ALSO DO EXERCISES THAT FLEX THE HIPS? EVER? Fucking amazing.
D
Debaser
Guest
casualbb said:
You're kidding!
But since you don't box squat, you're obviously incorrect. Feel the power of my logic. I know you're in California, but you can probably still feel it, because I am strong.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Debaser said:
Oh my god hahahaha! I have yet to sleep, so this is probably more hilariou to me now than it would be if I got some shut-eye, but that was great! Ahhh hahaha!
Debaser said:
I've always believed that an educated person could talk without using foul language. Anyway...
I GOT your analogy...but YOUR analogy had nothing to do with what I was saying before that. NOTHING. I agreed that a pilot should listen to the builder when talking about specifics on the plane BUT the builder should NOT be trying to tell him how to fly it. My mechanic can work on my Suburban in the states all he wants to but when I haul my trailer behind it and I am driving in the rain...I don't want an unexperienced driver telling me how to drive when I've driven both of them 1/2 way across the country in just about every imaginable type of weather. Now...if my mechanic was also a truck driver with lots of experience in that situation...I'd give him my full attention...because he is an expert in that.
You...are flat out saying that you know all about box squats and what they do and do not work. You are also saying (well...you won't come out and say it...LOLOLOLOLOL) that you have never done a single box squat. Actually...you DON'T SQUAT. That makes you the mechanic telling ME how to drive my truck through bad weather.
It is ok that you dont' care that " a WHOPPING THREE PEOPLE" say that box squats work the hip flexors. You don't have to...but you sure seem to enough to use foul language when discussing it. Once again...you have NO EXPERIENCE box squatting and the people who DO box squat...say that the hip flexors are used and strengthened while doing them. Dude...YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM YET YOU MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THEM!!!!
Exercises that I'm doing that strengthen my hip flexors. Pull down abs, hanging leg raises about once every few months........mmm... well.... ummm...Hmmmm...and box squats.
So...again you should be making the statement:
"I have never done a wide stanced box squat to a low box with accomodating resistance yet I know everything about them and what muscles are involved."
Sounds perfect...
B True
Debaser said:
Feel free to direct this to me if you would like.
I have not mentioned how much I squat at all in this thread. I have not mentioned my box squat numbers. I have not mentioned the level of my strength at all.
You can use all the "logic" that you want...but logic quite often has little to do with strength training. You can sit back and "think" and use all the "logic" that you wish...but untill you put that "logic" to "good use"...it will only be a theory that you have.
Still...you are talking about an exercise that you know nothing about. Great "logic".
B True
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
why not off a box with a wide stance and a slight pause???
you smart im dumb at least you would be able to tell me you did them and that im really way off base
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
here we can share numbers go ahead and critique away
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397088
I'm pretty sure that Nate can't box squat because of a rule in his gym. I may be totally wrong man. Trust me...when Nate says he has done something...you can believe it. He is a stand up kinda guy. He isn't meaning to insult you in ANY way man.
B True
B True
D
Debaser
Guest
b fold the truth said:
Of course we smart folk could talk without using foul language. But then it wouldn't be so fucking fun. I've known some fucking geniuses, all of whom would make a Marine Corps drill sergeant blush.
It had everything to do with what we were talking about. And you're right, I don't box squat (fly) and shouldn't necessarily be telling you how to box squat (fly).
But when did I tell you how you should be squatting? I simply stated that the squat (ANY SQUAT), by definition, is a HIP EXTENSION movement, and therefore, by definition, isn't going to be the best way to work a HIP FLEXOR. You'd think this would be common sense.
Debaser said:
Even though many people may think that I'm just an ignorant truck driving redneck frum Kantukkee...I'm actually a fairly educated person who lives in a nice apartment near the sea and has a BMW. Not that you were trying to say that I'm not educated or intelligent though.
You are right about how you should not be telling me how to do a box squat...but lets go ahead and point out what you also said too:
Debaser said:
Soo...you have not done a box squat yet you supposedly know how they should feel, what muscles are being worked, and what is not being worked. I see your point that the hip flexors are not a prime mover in the box squat...never said that they were. But...if I am doing a leg raise or a full ROM sit up (which I suggested) there are also several other muscles at work than just my hip flexors. They may be "more" of a "prime mover" in that movement but I do not feel that doing a hanging leg raise for a set of 10 or 20 will give the same hip flexor stimulation that an INTENSE set of box squats would...or a solid box squatting DE Lower session.
Being a "prime mover" in an exercises does not mean that it will be stimulated more than if it were NOT a prime mover in a different exercise.
Hanging leg raise: prime mover but how much strength will be added to it?
Box Squat WSB style: not prime mover but will strengthen them greatly if done heavy and hard.
Does that make sense? It is like the difference between a machine hamstring curl and a glute ham raise. With those two exercises...both are VERY similar in movement yet the GHR works the hams SO MUCH MORE!!!! You may think and reason and logic that the box squat can't possibly work the hip flexors, but they simply do. Not a prime mover (never said that they were) but they get the heck worked out of them...and under HEAVY stress.
-------------------
Just to clarify...not all squats by definition are equal and work the same muscles either. Hence the reason why WIDE box squats work the hip flexors so much.
I seriously think that you should THINK about how you act on message boards. WHO exactly do you ever help? Do you do ANYTHING besides just look at threads and TRY to put down other peoples ideas? Are you totally against giving advice and helping others? Do you simply refuse to accept the knowledge of anyone stronger or bigger?
Seriously...think about that.
B True
bignate73
New member
wnt2bBeast said:
you took me the wrong way completely. i was just happy to have had a good night @ the gym.
maybe I should use more smileys.
and yes, I can't box squat often at my gym, but I'm pretty comfortable taking 315 for a ride. not huge but cardio either.
as i also mentioned briefly earlier, i was mistaken by not looking completely at the argument and overlooked rectus femoris. i admit that.
basically, we know the mechanics of hip flexion, we know the testimonials of what else has worked for people. the original poster is looong gone having gotten the information that suits him and all i'm doing now is throwing in random comments and apparently pissing off people unintentionally that i respect and disagreed with a bit earlier. so i'm done with this thread.
basically this thread has said what it needs to, let it die.
wnt2bBeast
New member
bignate73 said:
im more curious as to why your gym has a rule that you cant box squat????
whats the rationale behind that
D
Debaser
Guest
wnt2bBeast said:
He picked up the "Tummy Sculpting Summer" membership package from Bally's, which, while including a free algae facial package, sadly restricts his gym usage.
bignate73
New member
first, the only boxes we can use are aerobics steps. they don't want them out of the the aerobics room for 2 reasons: people don't put them back and people do all sorts of ridiculous weighted half lunges on them and they "crack". same as if a moo cow lady bounced on it for an hour in step class, but whatever. so basically my gym is ghey. i manage to do them on Sundays sometimes because i can lug all the stuff out with the gym being more empty and i don't catch eyeballs from the employees.
oh and I've built boxes before, when I worked there. they got thrown away...and I was an employee then!
trust me, my gym looks at me funny when I do everything at the gym. band setup, board setup, arching, squatting to the floor, zercher squats, deadlifting (i'll have to post the pic that says "no deadlifting,no chalk), lugging 8 risers out and a step is just the icing on the cake. so I make do with what i have.
i may start trekking to another gym soon though to use their power rack (another item omitted at my gym), i'm not sure if they have anything comparable to a box, but I'll have to check it out.
oh and I've built boxes before, when I worked there. they got thrown away...and I was an employee then!
trust me, my gym looks at me funny when I do everything at the gym. band setup, board setup, arching, squatting to the floor, zercher squats, deadlifting (i'll have to post the pic that says "no deadlifting,no chalk), lugging 8 risers out and a step is just the icing on the cake. so I make do with what i have.
i may start trekking to another gym soon though to use their power rack (another item omitted at my gym), i'm not sure if they have anything comparable to a box, but I'll have to check it out.
wnt2bBeast
New member
i could use some tummy sculpting myselfDebaser said:
where do we sign up..
nate dude go to a btter gym..
i try to lift with safety in mind..i plan on lifting for a long time not just through next week..
ive seen people do stupid stuff as well..and cant believe a trainer has never said anything to certain people
wnt2bBeast
New member
Kane Fan said:
if you got one pull it...
i find it a lot more fun than riding a stationary bike ro doing some other form of cardio..i never have and never will "run"
Debaser said:
I'll talk to the manager of my gym and see if I can get one of those. Lord knows I could use some tummy sculpting and LOTS of algae facial packages. Do they have anything that will help with my horse face?
B True
wnt2bBeast
New member
b fold the truth said:I'll talk to the manager of my gym and see if I can get one of those. Lord knows I could use some tummy sculpting and LOTS of algae facial packages. Do they have anything that will help with my horse face?
B True
youre already hitched dont matter what your face looks like now..she must see something else in you
royale13ii
New member
sweeeet. box squats, leg raises, deadlifts, situps. thanks everyone.
blut wump
New member
One of my Danish friends introduced me to his mother. We chatted for a while and I said I'd known straight away that he was Danish since he had a face like an horse. She smiled sweetly having heard "a face like a Norse".b fold the truth said:I'll talk to the manager of my gym and see if I can get one of those. Lord knows I could use some tummy sculpting and LOTS of algae facial packages. Do they have anything that will help with my horse face?
B True
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