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Need sleep "so" bad...........

Set yourself up with a baseline number of cals (12cal/lb of bodyweight, for example - you might want to drop that to 10cal/lb. Whatever the number, get that baseline established)

Protein: 1g/lb is the typical number

Fat: 15-25% of total cals, primarily coming from unsaturated (olive oil is a great source), and given your history, I'd go with the higher end of the range.

Carbs: 45-55% of total cals - stick to the lower end of the range here.

I wouldn't do anything more radical until you get that baseline established and see how you feel, and how your sleep cycles respond.

Remember, you're putting your body through HUGE changes. It's going to react in different ways.

It's great that you're doing this. Keep up the good work!
 
Be very carefull with Ambien or others as they are very addictive. They can also screw up your GABA receptors and serotinin levels. Are you taking any amphetamines or weight loss drugs? These will contribute to insomnia. You may also be suffering from depression which can manifest itself in insomnia. You may not even think you are depressed but subconsciously you are. For this I can only recommend a therapist. For insomnia try taking Valerian root (found at health food stores) as it works very well, with no sides.

Also, keep in mind if you start using AAS that they can contribute to insomnia. I would get the insomnia under control before using drugs that can exacerbate the situation.
 
Alright - thanks to all your advice (and I do appreciate it "all") - I think I'm ready to "restructure" my diet and *tweak* a couple of other things.

I set up a ECA stack, but I won't TOUCH it while I am having these sleeping problems.

I already see someone for depression,(might as well put it all out there) - and to tell you the truth - I haven't been more positive about things in a LONG time.

after my accident, I literally hit ROCK BOTTOM, - I was out of work, depressed, drinking (not a TON, but enough to damage my psyche), I started smoking, and I was literally just sleeping, eating, or drinking - (sometimes trying all 3 at once)

I've spent the last 6 months just "picking up the pieces", getting my mind straight, - working out again, and just 2 1/2 weeks ago, I jumped in with both feet and changed my whole diet and mind-set.

For a seemingly big-guy (on the outside) - it's tough to admit how much help I have needed during the last year, but now I am comfortable enough with myself to look back on it all and feel "strong", truly strong for how far I've come.

Thanks to people like *you* on this board, I'm looking forward to not only getting back to where I was - but actually ended up bigger and stronger than before.

Peace
 
itlnstln said:
Alright - thanks to all your advice (and I do appreciate it "all") - I think I'm ready to "restructure" my diet and *tweak* a couple of other things.

I set up a ECA stack, but I won't TOUCH it while I am having these sleeping problems.

I already see someone for depression,(might as well put it all out there) - and to tell you the truth - I haven't been more positive about things in a LONG time.

after my accident, I literally hit ROCK BOTTOM, - I was out of work, depressed, drinking (not a TON, but enough to damage my psyche), I started smoking, and I was literally just sleeping, eating, or drinking - (sometimes trying all 3 at once)

I've spent the last 6 months just "picking up the pieces", getting my mind straight, - working out again, and just 2 1/2 weeks ago, I jumped in with both feet and changed my whole diet and mind-set.

For a seemingly big-guy (on the outside) - it's tough to admit how much help I have needed during the last year, but now I am comfortable enough with myself to look back on it all and feel "strong", truly strong for how far I've come.

Thanks to people like *you* on this board, I'm looking forward to not only getting back to where I was - but actually ended up bigger and stronger than before.

Peace



Are you taking SSRI's? If so you may want to start curbing your intake and eventually break it off. Drugs such as Lexapro, etc. are also very addictive and are very hard to break loose from. Some studies show addictive behavior after only a month or so of taking SSRI's. The pharm companies, IMO, are the same as crack dealers.
 
itlnstln said:
What do you guys use to help you sleep? (I've tried all the PM's, Nytols, etc) - my lack of sleep is just due to a little stress caused by - I don't even have the strength to type it all, but it's "not" from cycling.............I haven't even started my cycle yet.

I've never had this problem before, but I'm averaging about 2 hours sleep/night for the last 2 weeks. I'm not over-training, but I have been eating clean, stopped drinking (only drank 2 time/week anyway).

I don't know - perhaps this whole post will just look like a rambling mess to everyone when they read it, but I need help my friends.............
klonopin
 
Similar thing happened to me and at one point I went up to 297lbs or (at 5'8.5)

It wasn't pretty! turns out I had a very severe case of obstructive sleep apnea... and I wouldn't get much sleep during the night. That may be a problem you have, look into it, they can usually tell easily once teh tests are done.

Also, you may be consuming too much caffeine. Also, make sure you stop eating before going to bed, stop food intake by 9pm (if I need something before I go to bed I will have low carb grow by biotest, 20g of protein, barely any carbs per scoop)
 
Sinis said:
Are you taking SSRI's? If so you may want to start curbing your intake and eventually break it off. Drugs such as Lexapro, etc. are also very addictive and are very hard to break loose from. Some studies show addictive behavior after only a month or so of taking SSRI's. The pharm companies, IMO, are the same as crack dealers.


I do take an SSRI (Zoloft) along with Buspirone. - but I've been taking them for a WHILE now - it's the first thing I did when I realized how bad things have gotten.

I've never been a "great" sleeper, (up all night maybe once a month) - until I started "this" regimine.............I've eated like this before, but I was never , in my life, as FAT as I was/am, so I think the diet this time has really shocked the body.
 
itlnstln said:
I do take an SSRI (Zoloft) along with Buspirone. - but I've been taking them for a WHILE now - it's the first thing I did when I realized how bad things have gotten.

I've never been a "great" sleeper, (up all night maybe once a month) - until I started "this" regimine.............I've eated like this before, but I was never , in my life, as FAT as I was/am, so I think the diet this time has really shocked the body.


Long-Term Side Effects Surface With SSRIs

Author: Carl Sherman, Contributing Writer

[Clinical Psychiatry News 26(5):1, 1998. © 1998 International Medical News
Group.]



Insomnia, weight gain, sexual dysfunction emerge as problems
affecting compliance.


NEW YORK -- Physicians are seeing long-term side effects with selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitors far in excess of what was expected from clinical trial
data, Dr. Norman Sussman said at a psychopharmacology update sponsored by
New York University.

If these particular side effects -- sleep disturbances, sexual dysfunction, and weight
gain -- are problematic for patients, one of the newer non-SSRI antidepressants
may be a better choice, he said. Of course, these drugs have their own particular
side effect profiles.

When SSRIs first appeared a decade ago, their favorable side effect profile was a
key selling point. They were clearly safer and easier to use than tricyclics and
monoamine oxidase inhibitors and, above all, better tolerated by patients.

But experience has shown that some side effects are more common and problematic
than initially expected, said Dr. Sussman, director of the psychopharmacology
research and consultation service at Bellevue Hospital Center in New York.

Depression is a chronic, recurrent disorder, so long-term side effects actually may
be more important than acute ones in terms of patient compliance and quality of life,
and this has come to guide Dr. Sussman's choice of antidepressants.

Early-onset side effects may be responsible for rapid withdrawals from treatment,
but some of the most troubling of these -- nausea, diarrhea, headache, and agitation
-- will remit in 2-3 weeks.

A knottier problem is adverse effects that persist as long as the patient takes the
medication, such as sexual dysfunction and sleep disturbances. Also particularly
troubling are those, like weight gain, that don't even develop until late in treatment.

"These are the ones that are not in the insert, which is based on short-term studies,"
Dr. Sussman said.

Significant insomnia affects 15%-20% of patients taking SSRIs, twice the rate with
placebo.
Polysomnography has consistently found that these drugs cause activation
during the night: In addition to insomnia, bruxism, sweating, and periodic limb
movement are common. Vivid dreams and nightmares also occur. With ongoing
treatment, increasing numbers of patients report lethargy and fatigue, he said.

"There are a lot of data showing that people who sleep poorly are more likely to
relapse and that suicide risk is higher," he said.

Sleep problems often require concurrent medication: 22%-34% of patients taking
SSRIs also are prescribed sedatives or hypnotics, Dr. Sussman said.

Sexual dysfunctions are among the most distressing SSRI side effects. Decreased
libido and delayed or absent orgasm are the best known, but there are others, such
as the "yawning-excitement syndrome." Patients experience sexual arousal when
they yawn, often progressing to orgasm. "This is probably underreported. Patients
often say, 'If you hadn't asked me, I wouldn't have mentioned it,'" he said.

Perhaps the most unexpected SSRI-related problem to emerge has been weight
gain, which often begins only after several months of therapy. This side effect has not
been shown to be frequent or severe in controlled studies but has been reported
occur in 18%-50% of patients in some open-label studies.

Because this runs counter to the image of the drug, many physicians and patients are
unprepared to deal with it. "Some physicians tell patients, 'I can't understand why
you're gaining weight -- you're on an SSRI,'" Dr. Sussman said.

Greg Keuterman, a spokesman for Eli Lilly & Co., manufacturer of Prozac
(fluoxetine), declined to comment except to point out that "this is anecdotal
evidence."

"We're approved by the FDA for long-term treatment of depression," he added.

Pfizer Inc., the maker of Zoloft (sertraline), and SmithKline Beecham
Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Paxil (paroxetine), did not respond to requests for
comment.

These observations do contrast with what the clinical trials submitted to the Food
and Drug Administration by pharmaceutical companies show, Dr. Sussman said. It
would be nice if these long-term side effects were studied in clinical trials comparing
different antidepressants.

Some of the newer antidepressants are less likely to cause the types of long-term
problems that lead patients to discontinue SSRIs, he said.

Of course, it is possible that unexpected side effects will emerge over the long term
with these antidepressants as well, Dr. Sussman said.

With venlafaxine (Effexor), "the side effects are the same as with SSRIs: insomnia,
somnolence, lethargy and fatigue, and weight gain, but they are less intense." The
new extended-dose formulation causes lower peak plasma levels, which appears to
make the drug more tolerable. Notably less significant is nausea, which was a
problem with the immediate-release form of venlafaxine, Dr. Sussman said.

Mirtazapine (Remeron) causes no gastrointestinal problems, sexual dysfunction, or
insomnia over the long term, but difficulties are likely to occur early. Patients should
be advised that while somnolence at the start of therapy may be "overwhelming," it
usually lasts only 2-3 days. "You need to counsel patients to stick with it," he said.

Increased appetite and weight gain also may be marked in the first stage of therapy
but will generally plateau after 2-3 months. "[Treatment with mirtazapine] works
only if the patient trusts you that these effects are time limited and treatable," he said.

European trials of mirtazapine reported less trouble with initial weight gain and
somnolence, perhaps because higher doses were used. "Most [clinicians] now agree
on starting at 30 mg rather than 15 mg," Dr. Sussman said.

Nefazodone (Serzone) appears to cause little sexual dysfunction and minimal
agitation and carries a low risk of weight gain. It enhances sleep quality and reduces
awakenings. The most common side effects -- nausea, sedation, and dizziness -- are
generally limited to the beginning of treatment and are dose related. "They diminish
with each week of treatment," he said.

Physicians should be aware of the fact that patients who are switched directly from
SSRIs to nefazodone experience a higher than expected rate of side effects.

Once-daily dosing in the evening can minimize daytime sedation and dizziness with
nefazodone in patients who have been stabilized on the standard twice-a-day
schedule, he said.

Bupropion (Wellbutrin) has been associated with headache, nausea, and dry mouth,
but it is well tolerated by most patients, particularly in the long term. The
sustained-release form appears to reduce seizure risk, which has been a concern
with the drug. But bupropion still should not be given to patients who may be prone
to seizures, Dr. Sussman said.
 
Sinis said:
Long-Term Side Effects Surface With SSRIs

Author: Carl Sherman, Contributing Writer

[Clinical Psychiatry News 26(5):1, 1998. © 1998 International Medical News
Group.]



Insomnia, weight gain, sexual dysfunction emerge as problems
affecting compliance.


NEW YORK -- Physicians are seeing long-term side effects with selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitors far in excess of what was expected from clinical trial
data, Dr. Norman Sussman said at a psychopharmacology update sponsored by
New York University.

If these particular side effects -- sleep disturbances, sexual dysfunction, and weight
gain -- are problematic for patients, one of the newer non-SSRI antidepressants
may be a better choice, he said. Of course, these drugs have their own particular
side effect profiles.

When SSRIs first appeared a decade ago, their favorable side effect profile was a
key selling point. They were clearly safer and easier to use than tricyclics and
monoamine oxidase inhibitors and, above all, better tolerated by patients.

But experience has shown that some side effects are more common and problematic
than initially expected, said Dr. Sussman, director of the psychopharmacology
research and consultation service at Bellevue Hospital Center in New York.

Depression is a chronic, recurrent disorder, so long-term side effects actually may
be more important than acute ones in terms of patient compliance and quality of life,
and this has come to guide Dr. Sussman's choice of antidepressants.

Early-onset side effects may be responsible for rapid withdrawals from treatment,
but some of the most troubling of these -- nausea, diarrhea, headache, and agitation
-- will remit in 2-3 weeks.

A knottier problem is adverse effects that persist as long as the patient takes the
medication, such as sexual dysfunction and sleep disturbances. Also particularly
troubling are those, like weight gain, that don't even develop until late in treatment.

"These are the ones that are not in the insert, which is based on short-term studies,"
Dr. Sussman said.

Significant insomnia affects 15%-20% of patients taking SSRIs, twice the rate with
placebo.
Polysomnography has consistently found that these drugs cause activation
during the night: In addition to insomnia, bruxism, sweating, and periodic limb
movement are common. Vivid dreams and nightmares also occur. With ongoing
treatment, increasing numbers of patients report lethargy and fatigue, he said.

"There are a lot of data showing that people who sleep poorly are more likely to
relapse and that suicide risk is higher," he said.

Sleep problems often require concurrent medication: 22%-34% of patients taking
SSRIs also are prescribed sedatives or hypnotics, Dr. Sussman said.

Sexual dysfunctions are among the most distressing SSRI side effects. Decreased
libido and delayed or absent orgasm are the best known, but there are others, such
as the "yawning-excitement syndrome." Patients experience sexual arousal when
they yawn, often progressing to orgasm. "This is probably underreported. Patients
often say, 'If you hadn't asked me, I wouldn't have mentioned it,'" he said.

Perhaps the most unexpected SSRI-related problem to emerge has been weight
gain, which often begins only after several months of therapy. This side effect has not
been shown to be frequent or severe in controlled studies but has been reported
occur in 18%-50% of patients in some open-label studies.

Because this runs counter to the image of the drug, many physicians and patients are
unprepared to deal with it. "Some physicians tell patients, 'I can't understand why
you're gaining weight -- you're on an SSRI,'" Dr. Sussman said.

Greg Keuterman, a spokesman for Eli Lilly & Co., manufacturer of Prozac
(fluoxetine), declined to comment except to point out that "this is anecdotal
evidence."

"We're approved by the FDA for long-term treatment of depression," he added.

Pfizer Inc., the maker of Zoloft (sertraline), and SmithKline Beecham
Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Paxil (paroxetine), did not respond to requests for
comment.

These observations do contrast with what the clinical trials submitted to the Food
and Drug Administration by pharmaceutical companies show, Dr. Sussman said. It
would be nice if these long-term side effects were studied in clinical trials comparing
different antidepressants.

Some of the newer antidepressants are less likely to cause the types of long-term
problems that lead patients to discontinue SSRIs, he said.

Of course, it is possible that unexpected side effects will emerge over the long term
with these antidepressants as well, Dr. Sussman said.

With venlafaxine (Effexor), "the side effects are the same as with SSRIs: insomnia,
somnolence, lethargy and fatigue, and weight gain, but they are less intense." The
new extended-dose formulation causes lower peak plasma levels, which appears to
make the drug more tolerable. Notably less significant is nausea, which was a
problem with the immediate-release form of venlafaxine, Dr. Sussman said.

Mirtazapine (Remeron) causes no gastrointestinal problems, sexual dysfunction, or
insomnia over the long term, but difficulties are likely to occur early. Patients should
be advised that while somnolence at the start of therapy may be "overwhelming," it
usually lasts only 2-3 days. "You need to counsel patients to stick with it," he said.

Increased appetite and weight gain also may be marked in the first stage of therapy
but will generally plateau after 2-3 months. "[Treatment with mirtazapine] works
only if the patient trusts you that these effects are time limited and treatable," he said.

European trials of mirtazapine reported less trouble with initial weight gain and
somnolence, perhaps because higher doses were used. "Most [clinicians] now agree
on starting at 30 mg rather than 15 mg," Dr. Sussman said.

Nefazodone (Serzone) appears to cause little sexual dysfunction and minimal
agitation and carries a low risk of weight gain. It enhances sleep quality and reduces
awakenings. The most common side effects -- nausea, sedation, and dizziness -- are
generally limited to the beginning of treatment and are dose related. "They diminish
with each week of treatment," he said.

Physicians should be aware of the fact that patients who are switched directly from
SSRIs to nefazodone experience a higher than expected rate of side effects.

Once-daily dosing in the evening can minimize daytime sedation and dizziness with
nefazodone in patients who have been stabilized on the standard twice-a-day
schedule, he said.

Bupropion (Wellbutrin) has been associated with headache, nausea, and dry mouth,
but it is well tolerated by most patients, particularly in the long term. The
sustained-release form appears to reduce seizure risk, which has been a concern
with the drug. But bupropion still should not be given to patients who may be prone
to seizures, Dr. Sussman said.




If you are able to get off the SSRI's that would be great. SSRI's over long term use tend to burn the receptors out, thus the mental addiction.
 
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