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Need PCT help please

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Experienced Noob
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Ok guys, first and foremost. Anyone that helps me out...a huge thanks! I mean that. But honestly (here I go again) I really would prefer the help of those that actually "know" what they are talking about. I know many of you "think" you know. But you don't know you shit. Many of you are noobs. And some of you have been doing this game for only a year or two and think they got this shit locked down. Some of you even go as far as to rehash info and acting like its your very own info.

I need help and I need help ONLY from those with years of experience. And from those that have done PCT many times and recovered quite well. And I will only take advice from the big boys. I'm not going to take PCT advise from anyone under 180lbs. :-) Sorry...but at least I'm being honest. So go ahead and call me all you want. But at least I know what I'm saying here is 100% true.

Here it goes....


As some of you know, I have been on gear for a long time with no breaks. Mostly due to HRT purposes. But I feel like its time to do a PCT. I just feel burned out. And my libido is all fucked up! I want to reset everything per se. In case some of you ask...."what have you been on?". Nothing but Test and Proviron..thats it.

I'm wiling to take off as much time as possible. But without losing all my muscle and getting a disfigured physique. LOL :-) Here is what I have in my arsenal.

Test
Dbol
Proviron
HCG
Clomid
Aromasin
Dostinex


So which of these drugs, in what order,dose etc etc do I need and for how long. I need exact methods for a great PCT that will return me to somewhat normal levels. And also maintain as much muscle as possible.
 
I can help you out bro.. But first, do you mean completely test and d-bol free??

You want to come off ALL AAS and use a normal PCT protocol to get your baselines and HTPA back to normal?


If so..

I do well with this..
10000 iu's of HCG
Usually, 1000iu's ED for 10 days or a couple of the first days with 1500-2000 iu's and then lower the dose...

After esters have cleared I run 25mg of aromasin ED with 40mg of Novaldex ED..

I run this for 6 weeks or so. Then I switch to just .25-.5mg of a-dex EOD to prevent an estrogen rebound and to keep water in check off cycle...

I usually throw in 25-50mg of proviron for libido but I dont know if that is something you dont want to touch or not..

Good luck.
 
well im about 190, so i guess i pass the weight test. did my first cycle 6 yrs ago, so i guess i pass the time test too...lol

One thing that i have learned (from mistake) is not to run HCG and Clomid at the same time. run the HCG before the clomid.

i will let the guys with better advice elaborate, but i would think that

run the Prov and Aromasin all the way through PCT

with HCG and then Clomid following
 
I like

HCG - 5000iu once weekly for about 4 weeks
Nolvadex 20mg ed
Clomid 50mg ed
Dbol 5-10mg ed
Add a natural test supplement as well, i liked testrol from german american, but i think most will work well....Also add fish oils....

as long a neccasary.....but i think 4-6 weeks should do it
 
I just mentioned all the drugs I have. Simply because I have heard that some guys use 10mgs of Dbol per day during PCT. Back to normal? I dont' think I will ever go back to normal. I am on HRT for life you know. I stayed off once for 2 years clean and never returned back to normal. But I do recall that once I came off that 10mgs of Androgel per day shit and jumped to 500mgs of Test per week. HOLY SHIT!!! I blew up quick! I got fucking strong as hell! And my libido and mood were fucking awesome! I havent' felt like that in a long ass time. I just really think that being on too long fucked me up. That is why I want to reset things. But remember...try NOT to lose muscle. Or at least not a a whole lot.
 
Carth - you echoed my theory exactly...androderm fd me up a couple of years ago and I know I never cam back..just tried 250mg cyp for 17 weeks and made some very nice progress.


Week 1 into pct and I feel like hell.......are you gonna attempt the am dbol? More and more say its the way to go, but I am timid.....would love to come back natty.......

how old are you? you going at this, if you do go hrt, self administered and try pct again later???
 
Carth said:
We got a PCT forum?
Click to expand...
It's well worth a read. There aren't many threads there compared with the rest of the board and it's probably worth the time to read everything. Give especial attention to posts from Jenetic.
 
You will find the "big boys" really don't do PCT of any sort.
 
AAP said:
You will find the "big boys" really don't do PCT of any sort.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I know! I should know! LOL. But my libido and body are all fucking burned out! I simply do not know how to make things go back. Tried everything and nothing works. HCG and all that shit "during" my gear to try to get my libido back. And nothing is working. I do mean nothing!!!

As for the PCT forum. No really...we have a PCT forum? Where the hell is it? I can't find it. And I see I'm getting questions with a question. If I'm going to use Dbol? I dont know bro..you tell me. Am I? I asked how do I run a PCT? So why am I getting questions on how I'm going to run a PCT cycle baffles me.
 
Carth keep me posted......how old? Hrt in your sights? I feel the EXACT same way....plus, it so frickn hard to eat with t levels crumbling...
 
Here's a link to the PCT forum:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

A straight-forward PCT cycle is easy enough to put together with HCG and clomid with an AI (read Jenetic's sticky) but your situation could well be heavily complicated due to your extended duration 'on' and you might find that it takes you more than one attempt to recover while you find what works for you.
 
JKurz1 said:
Carth keep me posted......how old? Hrt in your sights? I feel the EXACT same way....plus, it so frickn hard to eat with t levels crumbling...
Click to expand...

I'm 30 and I'm currently on HRT.
 
Carth said:
I'm 30 and I'm currently on HRT.
Click to expand...


How long you been on?

How did you determine you needed it? (feeling any symptoms?)

Did you insurance cover it?
 
AAP said:
How long you been on?

How did you determine you needed it? (feeling any symptoms?)

Did you insurance cover it?
Click to expand...

Been on HRT for like 6 years already. And yes the insurance covers it.
 
I can't imagine what coming off after being on for that long would feel like. I have been off for almost 2 months now, after being on for 30 weeks and Im still not right.

I've been debating jumping back on a light test cycle just to help with my libido. :worried: I know I should stay off tho, its just gonna be hard.

Goodluck bro. I hope it all works out. Im anxious to see what measures you take and what your results are. :jenscat
 
Aside from feeling like total piss, what are the reprocussions from having low testosterone? Is loss of weight one aspect? What about a high caloric, yet clean diet, intense training...does the surplus automatically lead tro fat storage? Wouldn't pct using igf, nolv, and hcg prevent this? I've heard so many different views......any insight?
 
JKurz1 said:
Aside from feeling like total piss, what are the reprocussions from having low testosterone? Is loss of weight one aspect? What about a high caloric, yet clean diet, intense training...does the surplus automatically lead tro fat storage? Wouldn't pct using igf, nolv, and hcg prevent this? I've heard so many different views......any insight?
Click to expand...


HIJCACKING.
 
penile disfunction, loss of muscle, sometimes even loss of more muscle then you put on when you were natural.....i usually know right away...because i stop getting boners....when i miss a day or 2 of masterbation(no joke, 1 masterbation a day keeps the viagra away), i know I need to get back on the PCT when that happens.....Im a strong believer in adding a natural test booster during and after my PCT.....it really works for me.
 
Posted in the PCT forum and thus no help. This sucks. LOL. I want to get back and I gots no help. :-( Wondering if I should take Dbol (bridge low dose) and aromasin while off.
 
10mg d-bol upon waking up...
40mg novaldex for 6 weeks...
25mg aromasin for 6 weeks...
10000 iu's of HCG used after your last injection...

I like to use proviron at 25-50mg staggered when needed...

There I posted it twice..
 
JuicedAthletics said:
10mg d-bol upon waking up...
40mg novaldex for 6 weeks...
25mg aromasin for 6 weeks...
10000 iu's of HCG used after your last injection...

I like to use proviron at 25-50mg staggered when needed...

There I posted it twice..
Click to expand...

I got proviron as well. use it when though? From beginning till end? Or only wehn I start the Dbol?
 
JKurz1 said:
this isnt a brdge though....not the theory at least...its recovery......
Click to expand...

I will never recover. That has proven many times. I have done PCT many times in the past. But this was fucking years and I mean yearrrssssssssss ago!!!! Hence the reason why I was put on Androgel 7 years ago. But from now megadosing gear for close to 4 years straight. I feel burned out. Libido is fucking gone! Nothing and I mean nothing I do gives me that great feeling while on gear. I actually feel like i'm on NO gear at all. I just think its time for a master reset.
 
OK I got ya Carth. That's what I do. I take about 6-8 weeks off ever year. Dont think it does anything but when I get back on I feel the effects of test MUCH more than the months prior to stopping..

I use the 10mg dbol dose throughout for pumps, size and strength. Surprisingly, it helps alot!!!
I use the 50mg proviron dose throughout for sex drive and to free up test..
The HCG gives me strength, nuts bouncy again and starts the body working again..
The aromasin at 25mg ED and Novaldex at 40mg ED has been proven to be much more effective than the Novaldex, Clomid use..

Aromasin is a great compound. Just a little pricier than other AIs but you get what you pay for..
 
JuicedAthletics said:
OK I got ya Carth. That's what I do. I take about 6-8 weeks off ever year. Dont think it does anything but when I get back on I feel the effects of test MUCH more than the months prior to stopping..

I use the 10mg dbol dose throughout for pumps, size and strength. Surprisingly, it helps alot!!!
I use the 50mg proviron dose throughout for sex drive and to free up test..
The HCG gives me strength, nuts bouncy again and starts the body working again..
The aromasin at 25mg ED and Novaldex at 40mg ED has been proven to be much more effective than the Novaldex, Clomid use..

Aromasin is a great compound. Just a little pricier than other AIs but you get what you pay for..
Click to expand...


But if I'm going to be off (sort of). Shouldn't I really be off OFF? I mean...just do the HCG/Clomid thing. Then stay on Dbol only to suppress the extreme high rise in cortisol? And you know for me that fucking cortisol is going to be really realy high!!! If I start taking proviron and aromasin. It just adding more hormones in there. The one thing that fucked me up to begin with anyways.
 
Carth, I dont know what else to tell you. I think its a good idea to come off your test for 4-6 weeks. But you are going to lose size if you dont bridge with something. Try var, proviron.. something.... I dont see a sense to running a PCT when you know you are going to jump back on HRT. Maybe go with EQ or Deca with some proviron for a good month or so...but no PCT is going to keep the gains you have made. you are well past your genetic potential..

you are in my area.. im sure uve heard of south beach rejuvination. it looks like george took down our banner again.. call us and ask for mike, jeff or chris..

uve been in this game prolly longer than i have. u dont need a pct, you will be miserable.. get off the test for a while but jump on some eq, primo or something along those lines..... nothing is going to even be close to your test/proviron stack you are used to..
 
JuicedAthletics said:
Carth, I dont know what else to tell you. I think its a good idea to come off your test for 4-6 weeks. But you are going to lose size if you dont bridge with something. Try var, proviron.. something.... I dont see a sense to running a PCT when you know you are going to jump back on HRT. Maybe go with EQ or Deca with some proviron for a good month or so...but no PCT is going to keep the gains you have made. you are well past your genetic potential..

you are in my area.. im sure uve heard of south beach rejuvination. it looks like george took down our banner again.. call us and ask for mike, jeff or chris..

uve been in this game prolly longer than i have. u dont need a pct, you will be miserable.. get off the test for a while but jump on some eq, primo or something along those lines..... nothing is going to even be close to your test/proviron stack you are used to..
Click to expand...


You are right man. South Beach Rejuvination? I think I heard of it or seen it. What exactly is it again? And come to think of it. I was out doing some grocery shopping not too long ago. And then it hit me. Perhaps I should just take low dose (10mgs ED) of Dbol? Or maybe even just Primo. And stay with that for a few weeks until I feel that things are returning (or slightly) back to normal before I jump on High Dose Test and Proviron. What do you think?

But then I thought. That maybe the Primo won't be good enough. I'm sure it will help keep some size. But it probably won't be a good idea due to the low androgens. I'm guessing that 10mgs of Dbol ED provides the androgens I need. While Primo won't at all. Am I right or wrong? Hit me back...won't like to hear more.
 
carth I'm no expert like ulter or ja but have sooken in great detail to him about a scenerio like yours. I think the am dbol is right up your alley. couple it with 100mg of clomid week 1 and 50 thereaftrr. this will keep you tight solidfy gains and keep you lean as u eat big during pct. do this for all of january. then get blood work. you'll feel better. worse case scenerio it fails n u go back on hrt. nothing to lose n everything to gain espm with opportunity ti fully rebound......maybe even a stronger more agressive pct since uve been on for awhile. gl bro
 
First and foremost. A huge thanks to everyone that helped me out on this issue. I really appreciate it. Second thing...I really doubt PCT would get me back to normal. I am on HRT for a reason and that reason is because I have done PCT in the past (don't remember how I did it). And it never returned my Test levels back to normal. However, even though it never returned me back to normal. I did feel fucking great when I would go back to taking high dose gear. Mood, energy, strength, brain function and libido way, way, way high!!! And that is what I want back. Like I said, I really think I just need to lay off of everything for a while and let my body reset itself. I just want to try to maintain the most muscle and strength I can.

I read what all of you said. And especially what JA said. And you guys make sense. Doing a PCT will ony make me feel like shit. And we already know that PCT never returned me back to normal so why bother. But still...even if I do want to lay off for a while but take some low dose gear like 10mgs of Dbol ED. I still think I should do some HCG and/or whatever else is needed.

I went to the PCT forums and there is just way too much info there to read. Too much stuff that doesnt' pertain to me and most likely won't do dick for me. So if someone could just lay out a simple routine for me that would be awesome. Today is Sunday 1/31/06. My last shot of 1500mgs of Test Cyp was on Wednedsay 1/20/06. Now what do I do? What do I start taking as of now? What dose? What method? HCG and Clomid? Or only HCG? Aromasin? Proviron? Dbol..when do I start this? Let me list the drugs I have with me again besides Test of course.

Primo
Dbol
Proviron
Aromasin
HCG
Clomid
Dostinex
 
YOu took 1500mgs at one time? WTF?

Anyway as stated, why fucking worry about PCT when you are going right back on HRT.
 
Yes 1500. Same shit as in some dude taking 750mgs of test with 800EQ with 400mgs of Deca. Instead of me taking 3 drugs..I only took one. My HRT is only 15mgs of Test per day anyways.
 
AAP said:
YOu took 1500mgs at one time? WTF?

Anyway as stated, why fucking worry about PCT when you are going right back on HRT.
Click to expand...
WOW! I said the same thing....Hi Carth. As AAP said I also do not do much PCT except Nolva EOD at 40mg. But I do not think I would run AAS while trying to reset your HPTA to the extent you can fix it. I like the HCG @1000ius for 10days at end of cycle then maybe a week of EOD followed by clomid with nolva from the start to keep estrogen spike from HCG under control also. One month or so of that PCT and then maybe add in some proviron at 50mg a day for a couple weeks then back on i would imagine. I am rearly off over 6 weeks anymore (the price of competing nationally) so PCT is not as nessary as the gear is in there doing its thing for the better part of a month anyway. Good luck.

Quad
 
Quadsweep said:
WOW! I said the same thing....Hi Carth. As AAP said I also do not do much PCT except Nolva EOD at 40mg. But I do not think I would run AAS while trying to reset your HPTA to the extent you can fix it. I like the HCG @1000ius for 10days at end of cycle then maybe a week of EOD followed by clomid with nolva from the start to keep estrogen spike from HCG under control also. One month or so of that PCT and then maybe add in some proviron at 50mg a day for a couple weeks then back on i would imagine. I am rearly off over 6 weeks anymore (the price of competing nationally) so PCT is not as nessary as the gear is in there doing its thing for the better part of a month anyway. Good luck.

Quad
Click to expand...

Hey Quad! Long time no see. Thanks for chiming on this. BTW...sick fucking routine you have bro! 20 minute workouts?! WTF!!! LOL
 
I would simply do the hcg for 15 days at 500iu per day and nolvadex at 20mg per day,

Then follow that with 30 days of Clomid at 50mg per day.


That gives you about 45 days off,

then you can jump back on.


If that does not work, jump back on the hcg,


I just re read your post, your 30 and have only been on test, you will probably bounce back after your first 10 days of hcg.
 
solidspine said:
I would simply do the hcg for 15 days at 500iu per day and nolvadex at 20mg per day,

Then follow that with 30 days of Clomid at 50mg per day.


That gives you about 45 days off,

then you can jump back on.


If that does not work, jump back on the hcg,


I just re read your post, your 30 and have only been on test, you will probably bounce back after your first 10 days of hcg.
Click to expand...

But honestly no lie. I have ran HCG at 500 and even 1000ius for 10 days staright during the whole use of Test. And it didnt' do jack shit for me. I mean fucking nothing!!! Didn't even get gyno or water retention! LOL And yes its real because I gave my friend a couple of shots of HCG and he said that his nuts blew the fuck up! And that his libido was insane! I honestly think I'm just totaly fucking burnt the fuck out. Perhaps too much hormones for me isnt' the thing for me. I mean...we are all diffrernt right? Many of u get nasty sides from certion drugs. While others do not experience those side. And some get good benefits while others do not notice shit. Well..perhaps high dose gear after a while fucks me over. I just may need to chill out and let everything drop back down to low levels again.
 
Seriously bro, that 10mg dbol in the a.m. is the way to go. Like you keep reiterating, you are never going to return to "normal" levels. Why not be "off", and actually feel half way decent in doing so? 10mg of dbol per day is not "on" like some other people think. If you want to fart around with Proviron, Clomid, HCG, Nolva, and Arimidex, that's your choice. I really don't think much of any of those with the exception of the Nolva and Clomid. Proviron is great when on. Arimidex is good when you cut out the Nolva.
This has turned into a babble. My point was that 10mg of dbol in the A.M. is a good thing. There is also a product from ALRI called Restore that I have used, and felt pretty good on it.
 
No, just trying to figure out the logic behind THAT and why you suddenly seemed concerned about PCT.
 
So what are you saying then? No HCG? No Clomid? Remember I do not ahve Nolva. No Aromasin or Proviron? Just drop everythign and stick to 10mgs of Dbol every morning?
 
Carth said:
So what are you saying then? No HCG? No Clomid? Remember I do not ahve Nolva. No Aromasin or Proviron? Just drop everythign and stick to 10mgs of Dbol every morning?
Click to expand...


Shit man, I don't know. I have never done PCT before. I am just pointing out the logic of using that much test, taking a small break in an attempt to restart your own axis, then jumping back on and suppressing it again. Sort of like standing at a light switch flipping it on-off-on-off-on-off.

Personally, I never do PCT simply because I take long breaks between cycles. While I am most definately shut down (unless all my gear is bunk), I don't really "feel" shut down. My strength never wavers. Last cycle I ran 1 gram test weekly, 800mg EQ weekly and 3-4ius Serostim daily, this cycle ended in Mid July. I am still using the same weights that I was using for the same number of reps that I was using while on that cycle. Nothing really changed. I did put on a bit of fat (about 6 pounds), but that was only because I stopped working out for 7 weeks and spent 3 of those weeks in Italy eating seafood, pasta and all kinds of nasty carbs and drinking my ass off and then another week in Cabo, eating and drinking myself blotto everyday.

From everything I have read on here and other threads, you would probably come out best with just a small dbol dose and proviron dose everyday. Or if you plan to jump back on HRT, just take the time off completely clean. Hell muscle memory will bring you back in a month to the point you are at now.
 
AAP said:
Shit man, I don't know. I have never done PCT before. I am just pointing out the logic of using that much test, taking a small break in an attempt to restart your own axis, then jumping back on and suppressing it again. Sort of like standing at a light switch flipping it on-off-on-off-on-off.

Personally, I never do PCT simply because I take long breaks between cycles. While I am most definately shut down (unless all my gear is bunk), I don't really "feel" shut down. My strength never wavers. Last cycle I ran 1 gram test weekly, 800mg EQ weekly and 3-4ius Serostim daily, this cycle ended in Mid July. I am still using the same weights that I was using for the same number of reps that I was using while on that cycle. Nothing really changed. I did put on a bit of fat (about 6 pounds), but that was only because I stopped working out for 7 weeks and spent 3 of those weeks in Italy eating seafood, pasta and all kinds of nasty carbs and drinking my ass off and then another week in Cabo, eating and drinking myself blotto everyday.

From everything I have read on here and other threads, you would probably come out best with just a small dbol dose and proviron dose everyday. Or if you plan to jump back on HRT, just take the time off completely clean. Hell muscle memory will bring you back in a month to the point you are at now.
Click to expand...

Yeah I guess you and JA are right. I'm not trying to 100% return back to normal because that won't ever happen. Hence the reason for my HRT in the first place. And honestly...I really do not believe in doing cycles. Why gain so much to then only lose it all? Never made sense to me. Some say you have to do it so that you dont' risk the chances of not ever having children. I already have children and do not want more. EVER AGAIN!

All in all...I just do not know what the fuck is wrong with me. I just don't feel like I'm on gear even though I am pretty big and muscular. But I dont feel that great feeling that we all feel on when we take gear. I dont' feel that aggression in the gym. I dont' feel super strong like I used too. I don't feel motivated to do things anymore. My libido was always going up and down. And now as of the past few months its just fucking dead! HCG, Clomid etc etc. None of that shit worked in getting my libido back up. Nuts are not even hanging low like before to be honest.

So the conclusion for me was. If HCG, Clomid, Nolva none of that shit is maing me feel great. Gear itself doesnt' make me feel like I'm on gear. I lost my sex drive and can't get it back. My nuts are low and HCG ain't doing shit. Then I guess the only thing left to do is just come off. Not totally come off of course. But come off of high doses and just switch back to my Androgel doses or whatever else is equivalent to that drug. Which is 15mgs of Androgel per day.

So the question still stands. Just stick to 10mgs of Dbol everymorning as of now? Or do hit up the HCG/Clomid routine first and then the Dbol?
 
If you typed all that above, imagine what you will feel when clomid fucks up your emotions.
 
My thyroid is quite well actually. I mean.....wouldn't I be like very fat or super skinny if it were fucked up? And you can clearly see that I'm neither fat nor skinny. And as for AAP. I have taken Clomid many times. Even taken it during cycles at 100mgs ED for up to 14 days straight. And I never get those side effects of feeling bitchy. However, I do notice (if I have a libido that is)that it kills my libido.
 
why would you expect gyno or water retn from hcg....hell most become drier esp with an ai. did u have bloodwork? if not you damn well coulda been back to norm. I'm wondering if you truly don't know what normal feels like. Hell no you aren't gonna feel like u do on test bro. that's why we cycle and bros jizz when they're jacked on test....suck it up...if you were 40 I'd say go back...but we are the same age...you got too much life ahead of you....youve abused tons of hormones.....cut your body a break before it cuts you one.......not a slam just some food for thought......my .02ml
 
why would you expect gyno or water retn from hcg....hell most become drier esp with an ai
Click to expand...

Hey bro, I think you might have HCG confused with something else. HCG causes bloat and gyno. It is always reccommended that you take an ai WHILE doing HCG so that you do not get any gyno.


Carth... My man.. What have you decided?? Cleaning out for a month or so and then jumping back on?
 
JuicedAthletics said:
Hey bro, I think you might have HCG confused with something else. HCG causes bloat and gyno. It is always reccommended that you take an ai WHILE doing HCG so that you do not get any gyno.


Carth... My man.. What have you decided?? Cleaning out for a month or so and then jumping back on?
Click to expand...

Come this Wednesday it will 2 weeks from my last shot of Test. I think I will start the HCG/Clomid protocol. And then just cruise with 10mgs of Dbol ED for a few weeks. Maybe....8-12 weeks? But here are the questions that I have in regards to this.

HCG ( how much per day for how long? Do I take Aromasin with this? AIFM? Or nothing? Clomid at the same time with the HCG?

Clomid ( During the HCG or after? What dose and for how long? )

Dbol (Do I take anything like Proviron, Aromasin or AIFM during its use?)
 
If that is what you choose to do. I would plan on 8 weeks MAX!!! Thats two months being off HRT. You might want to go back on before then..

Reguardless, I would start everything immediately.

HCG for 10 days of 1000iu's ED.

Take at least .5mg of a-dex EOD or ED throughout your PCT. It will stop any estrogen rebounds and the estrogen spike from the HCG. I run it even when PCT is over..

Clomid take however you are comfortable with it. I do 150mg for a week.. 100mg for 2-3 weeks then 50mg for 2-3 weeks..

Dbol take 10mg as soon as you wake up...

Proviron is up to you. I like it. I take 25mg twice per day...

Start this all now because you are pretty much dry in the test department...
 
Hmm...never knew that.....I used it for 10 days and didnt notice any effect....was using aimf and 1/2 tab adex...maybe thats why I appeared drier? Also, does the dbol have any tightening properties? I mean a drug that cause so much bloat when used a lot +60mg, I've heard now causes people to become leaner etc when used during pct ??? thoughts?

I think AIMF is all he would need as many would agree.......quit possibly better than a-dex....ok I'll sit back now...this is def. not my department and Im just learning a ton reading.....good luck....

Oh, what exactly will the proviron do? Do you always include it when you are off or pct?
 
I always like to include proviron, both on and off cycle. It helps block estrogen, it gives the muscles a harder look and feel, it frees up testosterone in your body so that it can be used more efficiently and it increases your libido..

If you took AIFM or a-dex when you used your HCG then you wouldnt notice any bloat or gyno b/c those two AI's are very good at combating estrogen related sides.

I look leaner on dbol for two reasons. This is only what I think.. I always take it with an anti-estrogen, so I dont get the puffer fish look but my muscle bellies seem to hold onto the water and my muscles appear thick and tight. I know guys who will use anadrol and dbol up to the day of a competition. Its all about how you manipulate your diet, water intake and how you take your anti estrogens...
 
JuicedAthletics said:
If that is what you choose to do. I would plan on 8 weeks MAX!!! Thats two months being off HRT. You might want to go back on before then..

Reguardless, I would start everything immediately.

HCG for 10 days of 1000iu's ED.

Take at least .5mg of a-dex EOD or ED throughout your PCT. It will stop any estrogen rebounds and the estrogen spike from the HCG. I run it even when PCT is over..

Clomid take however you are comfortable with it. I do 150mg for a week.. 100mg for 2-3 weeks then 50mg for 2-3 weeks..

Dbol take 10mg as soon as you wake up...

Proviron is up to you. I like it. I take 25mg twice per day...

Start this all now because you are pretty much dry in the test department...
Click to expand...


I dont have Adex. I only have what I mentioned. Back to the clomid thing. How do I run this? During the HCG and continue it after the HCG? Or only after the 10 days of HCG use is up?

Dbol...start as of now? Or when I'm done with the HCG/Clomid protocol?
 
OK tomorrow will be Day 1...

From Day 1 till 10 take 1000ius of HCG everyday..

From Day 1 till 20 take 100mg of clomid everday.. Day 21 till 50 take 50mg of clomid everday..

From Day 1 till the end of your PCT take 10mg of dbol upon rising each morning.

From Day 1 till the end of your PCT take your proviron twice a day at 25mg each time. (You should use an anti-estrogen like AIFM, aromasin or a-dex but since you dont have them or plan to get them just use your proviron)

Try that for 40 to 50 days. Test will clear out your body and you will hopefully kick out of the rut you are in... You are starting EVERYTHING tomorrow. Then you will continue to run the clomid, dbol (and if you choose proviron) until you end your PCT.
 
JuicedAthletics said:
OK tomorrow will be Day 1...

From Day 1 till 10 take 1000ius of HCG everyday..

From Day 1 till 20 take 100mg of clomid everday.. Day 21 till 50 take 50mg of clomid everday..

From Day 1 till the end of your PCT take 10mg of dbol upon rising each morning.

From Day 1 till the end of your PCT take your proviron twice a day at 25mg each time. (You should use an anti-estrogen like AIFM, aromasin or a-dex but since you dont have them or plan to get them just use your proviron)

Try that for 40 to 50 days. Test will clear out your body and you will hopefully kick out of the rut you are in... You are starting EVERYTHING tomorrow. Then you will continue to run the clomid, dbol (and if you choose proviron) until you end your PCT.
Click to expand...


Cool. But I think you read wrong. I do have Aromasin with me. Also got AIFM as well. And just wanted to throw this in. But Clomid doesnt' make me feel bitchy like some say. But it does kill my libido big time. Not that I have one now! But if I did have a libido. It kills it for sure.
 
I forgot about your aromasin and AIFM..

Along with everything I wrote before. Start using your AIFM or Aromasin from Day 1 till the end of PCT..
You just want to use a light dose so that you can subside any estrogen rebounds while allowing for your body natty test to come back up.. I use Aromasin at 10-20mg ED when I have it on hand.
 
JuicedAthletics said:
I forgot about your aromasin and AIFM..

Along with everything I wrote before. Start using your AIFM or Aromasin from Day 1 till the end of PCT..
You just want to use a light dose so that you can subside any estrogen rebounds while allowing for your body natty test to come back up.. I use Aromasin at 10-20mg ED when I have it on hand.
Click to expand...

Fuck! That much Aromasin with the HCG? Or even just the Dbol alone? That will leave me NO estrogen at all. Even when I was taking 1500mgs of Test per week. I experimented with Aromasin at 10mgs ED. Got bloodwork done and my estrogen levels dropped to the lowest possible. But still within normal range. And imagine...that was WITH 1500mgs of Test per week. I can only imagine that with this stack. Wether it be HCG or just the Dbol and taking that much Aromasin, my E will be wiped out!
 
Yea Carth, you have to take into account everyone is different. For me, I NEED 20-25mg of aromasin. If you get by with 10mg with 1500mg of cyp then cut your dose to 5mg ED or EOD for PCT. You are one of the lucky ones...
 
with the HCG you do want to be sure, so a stronger dose of AI is not necessarily a bad idea. (as least during use and for a 3-4 days after last shot of hcg)

also 1000iu may be necessary for some but since you generally have low E, such a high dose is probably not necessary. More like 200-400iu e3-4d.

also no need to frontload clomid.

taking AIFM in the AM (or your aromasin) before your dbol will ensure peak levels of AI when the dbol peaks in plasma.
 
also no need to frontload clomid.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of everything else you posted. By how come no front load with clomid? For YEARS, I have been told, seen and have practiced a front load of clomid for a few days.

Thank you for your response.
 
JuicedAthletics said:
I agree with most of everything else you posted. By how come no front load with clomid? For YEARS, I have been told, seen and have practiced a front load of clomid for a few days.

Thank you for your response.
Click to expand...


because both the clinical and anecdotal evidence indicate that it does not increase recovery and only increases sides.
 
Ok, now I'm a bit confused. I already started all this shit as of last night. I took 2 pumps of AIFM last night before going to bed. And this morning I took 1000ius of HCG and 10mgs of Dbol. I still have not taken any clomid yet and still not sure if I should now considering now what Macro said.

So take AIFM or Aromasin? BTW..I only got enough Aromasin for a months use and the same for the Aromasin. So fuck the Clomid all together? Drop it and don't use it? Or use it later? And remember...I the only side I get from clomid is drop in libido. Probably does a really good job at lowering E for me???

BTW..I cannot take AIFM in the morning. Only before going to bed because I do take frequent showers throughout the day.
 
Been a couple weeks since you posted Carth and just wondering if you are seeing any results yet? I just started my PCT about a week ago and using 10mg DBol if the AM along with Nolva and Clomid. I have not added a Aromasin or AIFM to it yet but I might give it a try.
 
JKurz1 said:
why am dbol if you didnt try pct by itself first????
Click to expand...

This is my 4th cycle and I have always had slow recovery problems. I read on this board that it might help move things along a little quicker and also help keep my gains. Something I just thought I would try.

My PCT looks mainly like this:

wk1: Clomid 150mg/d (300mg Day 1), Nolva 60mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, dbol 10mg
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, Nolva 40mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, dbol 10mg
wk3: Nolva 20mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, dbol 10mg
wk4: Nolva 20mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d, dbol 10mg
wk5: Nolva 10mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

I am also taking a product called Lean Extreme and Activate along with Animal Stak 2
 
Well, I decided to go with this method and so far so good. At least I think so. I did...

HCG at 500ius for 10 days
Aromasin at 10mgs ED during HCG
Now taking 10mgs of Dbol everymorning upon waking up
AIFM 3 pumps ED

So far I'm still holding some size and strength. My mood is quite fine. But my libido is still pretty trashed.
 
I just switched from nolva to clomid.....so much info out there says nolva is the way to go ESPECIALLY with the less side effects.
 
Carth said:
Well, I decided to go with this method and so far so good. At least I think so. I did...

HCG at 500ius for 10 days
Aromasin at 10mgs ED during HCG
Now taking 10mgs of Dbol everymorning upon waking up
AIFM 3 pumps ED

So far I'm still holding some size and strength. My mood is quite fine. But my libido is still pretty trashed.
Click to expand...
You're probably running too much AI, 1 pump of AIFM should be adequate at this stage.

Very low oestrogen will trash libido at the best of times. If your joints start to feel rough then definitely cut back on the AI.
 
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