Need input on this 5 x 5

[stalker23]

How is this 5 x 5
Monday –
Squat – 5 x 5
Bench – 1 x 5
Rows – 5 x 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups

Wednesday – (to upper GPP)
Squat – 5 sets of 5 (fast) (15-25% less)
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5 (fast)
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5 (fast)
Sit-ups – 3 sets

Friday -
Squat – 1 x 5,
Bench – 5 x 5
PowerCleans- 1 x 5
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Tricep Extensions (3 x 8)
Bicep Curls (3 x 8)

QUESTIONS

When doing 1 x 5's, should your last set be to failure. And for the 5 x 5's, is it ok to no get the last one or two reps in in the 4th and 5th sets? I read your post on the main thread and it says its ok not to, but its under a different program. And if you cant get the last one or two reps in im assuming that it means it should be to failure. But if the 1 x 5 and the 5 x5 are both done to failure in the last set, then why do both...? (you do both in the core description)http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...3&postcount=381

Also, is there a more than 5 sets total, if you count the warm-up? (do you need to do the warmup?) and only 5 sets in the 1 x 5? What is considered a warm-up?

ANYONE THINK THIS WILL OVERLOAD THE CNS?

 

[Madcow2]

You are already aware of my opinions from BB.com (meaning that you should be training the basic single factor Bill Starr program) but for everyone else here you should provide relevant information such as:

Age
Height
Weight
Training Experience (in detail)
Special Needs (desire to maintain pushup etc...)
Best Full Squat
Best Dead
Best Bench

I also don't recall taking about training to failure at all as it's not part of the program although it may occur.

 

[blut wump]

You lost me in the melee of questions.

Read this
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

and get back to us.

 

[stalker23]

Age- 16
Height- 5 foot 10.5
Weight- 132.5
Training Experience (in detail)- trained for endurence all my life doing pushups and situps. Used the bowflex for 1.5 years and didnt get to much results so i switched to free weigths....been hitting them for the past 1.5 years or so.
Special Needs (desire to maintain pushup etc...)- Want to be strong, and have a good power to weight ratio (powerlifter), but also maintain and even gain endurence. (dont want to get really big.)
Best Full Squat- 250
Best Dead- none
Best Bench- 180

Will single factor work well for people of all levels? thats why i dont think the single factor would work for me (the one you showed me madcow2) because it said it wasnt good for people who have been training for a while.

ill read it later blunt wump, thanks...im on a really slow internet connnection now.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Let's put it this way: "When I was a freshman in college, Bill Starr gave me this routine to follow. It was designed for off-season football and general strength training. In the first 16 weeks I was on it, I added about 35 pounds of bodyweight, and took my total from a paltry 600 to over 950. Of course, I was also on the dorm’s prepaid meal plan, and ate like it was going out of style. Plus, I only had four classes that semester, so I spent lots of time sleeping."

600 to 950 lbs. I'd say it'll work just fine for you, and anyone else, until their totals at least reach somewhere around that level. You have room for improvement, and the single-factor version may not be a bad route.

 

[stalker23]

What is the difference between 1 x 5, and 5 x 5? (besides the fact you ramp the weights in the 1 x 5) Does one tax the CNS more than the other? Why use both?

If your supposed to use the weight you tried with the triple last week on mon. and try to get 5 reps in, wouldnt that be to failure most of the time? (it snot going ot be easy)

 

[Madcow2]

What is the difference between 1 x 5, and 5 x 5? (besides the fact you ramp the weights in the 1 x 5) Does one tax the CNS more than the other? Why use both?

The difference is workload and the difference is huge. A set of 5 at 50% is far less taxing than the same volume of reps (5) at an intensity (%1RM) of 90% and translates to a much lower and less taxing workload. See this post, the calculations are the same as those I provided for you on BB.com. You'll also find terms and definitions explained - plus a good link to better understand some of this.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5017744&postcount=686

This is probably a great post for you to read, specifically the 3rd question I answer where the poster says his long time lifting friend, a college sophmore with a 600 bench, is actually using the base Starr program and doing great on it. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5060465&postcount=751

If your supposed to use the weight you tried with the triple last week on mon. and try to get 5 reps in, wouldnt that be to failure most of the time? (it snot going ot be easy)

You might fail, you might not. The Friday triple is variable in relation to the Monday workout but typically 2.5% more. This is the increase you are going for. When this gets hard or you don't make it you can drop back a bit for a while and then increase the percentage above. See what happens. Start conservatively though so you are NOT pushing max weights or coming anywhere close to failure for a few weeks.

There is always this book. www.startingstrength.com from Rippetoe.

Part I of Rippetoe's interview just got released (mainly bio with a bit on programing for novices in the last 2 pages). Part II is next month with more on programing for novice, intermediate, and advanced lifters: http://www.readthecore.com/200507/trenches.htm

Glenn Pendlay's Interview on the same site is here: http://www.readthecore.com/200503/reynolds-glenn-pendlay.htm

 

[stalker23]

If you add in a deloading phase can you avoid overtraining, overtaxing the CNS?

What is the point of taxing the CNS? Why is it bad to overtax it?

 

[Madcow2]

1. If you add in a deloading phase can you avoid overtraining, overtaxing the CNS?

2. What is the point of taxing the CNS? Why is it bad to overtax it?

1. Yes - this is how this is managed but it's worthless and counter productive for you to even waste your time thinking about it because there is absolutely zero benefit for you to reap here and very significant risk that you will seriously compromise your results. The bottom line is that there is no benefit for you to gain here so stop worrying about it and train with a program that still has workloads well in excess of typical BBing crap.

2. Everything taxes the CNS. This is what overtraining is all about even though most BBers don't have a clue and think that on any given day if they accidentally did 1 too many sets for bicepts this big hairy overtraining ogre is going to come out and abduct them. Overtraining is systemic and the result of the system degrading due to excessive fatigue accrual resulting from workloads that are too high for too long a period.

Really, we've been round and round on this and these are some basic basic questions - I can't see any reason to continue and frankly I'm unwilling to. At this point - you should really just do whatever program you want. You obviously have your own ideas and are heavily reluctant to go into the gym and just use what others have told you is appropriate (although for whatever reason you trust every other one of my points hence we are lost in this bullshit). If the workload is too high you'll notice in a few weeks and your own body will force you to scale back. This will compromise your progress somewhat pointlessly and prevent you from training with the heaviest most stimulative weights as frequently as a novice could be but you'll learn from experience that which you don't seem willing to take our word for. The most important part is that you are doing the exercises correctly so if you need to beat yourself up a bit more than most in the process, by all means - go ahead at least you'll be better off than 95% of the morons running around doing drop sets of anus squeezes on the Cybex machine.

 

[stalker23]

well there not really my ideas. I have the ideas of a few other training programs that seem to contridict what you say. For example, you said that doing 5 sets of five with the same weight will not work, yet animalmass suggests it "for a wide range of athletes, from beginners to elite level athletes, women, men, anyone...."

you even talk about it on this thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215. Is it not five sets of five witht eh same weight (except for the friday squat)?

If not periodizing and not ramping the weights is so inefficent, then why does he suggest it? maybe im reading it wrong, but i think its pretty clear when he says "The idea is simple: pick a weight you can do for 5 sets of 5, and if you complete all the sets and reps, then next time bump the weight up 5 or 10 pounds."

Im not trying to argue. Really i guess im asking you (i already know animalmass thinks its good for a wide range of athletes) if this program woul dowrk too. Or is this training program not optimal for a begginer, which is why you keep on suggesting this program. http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...74&postcount=15

If you dont want to respond thats fine. Thanks for all your help Madcow2

 

[Madcow2]

Post #97 and down: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=503164&page=4

This is a case of you misinterpretting and not Animalmass, myself, Starr, Glenn, Rippetoe etc... contradicting each other.

 

[stalker23]

ok sry

thanks

 

[stalker23]

i want to make sure im increasing the weight the right way.

IS it important to be sure that all sets have an increase in weight, or if you only need to increase the last set to get 5 reps with the weight you used for the triple last week. Or does the only thing that matter is that the total for that lift is higher...even if you only increased the weight for one or two sets as compared to the last week. It seems like you would be increasing too much if you increase all the sets 5-10 lbs....or is this what you supposed to do.?

90x5= 450
110x5=550
130x5=650
140x5=700
150x5=750
TOTAL = 3100
THEN NEXT WEEK
MONDAY ______ OR IS IT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THIS_______OR THIS
100X5 = 500_______________ 90x5= 450 _______________95 X 5=475
120X5 = 600_______________ 110x5=550_______________110X 5=550
130X5=650 _______________130x5=650 _______________135X 5=675
145X5=725 _______________140x5=700_______________140X 5=700
155X5=775 _______________ 155 X 5=775 _______________155 X 5=775
TOTAL=3250_______________Total=3125_______________ __Total=3175

THE FIRST BEING WHERE EVER SET WAS INCREASED,
THE SECOND BEING THE LAST SET WAS THE ONLY TO INCREASE
THE THIRD WHERE ONLY SOME AND THE LAST WERE INCREASED.

the reason i think its a problem is becaseu one is obviously increaseing much mor ein the total Load.

If it really soesnt matter then just say it doenst matter, but it seems to me it would have a large impact in your trying ot go for your final set of five with what you could barly do on freday as a triple...

thanks

 

[gunit]

Stalker, PLEASE. SHUT UP for once. stop changing around the 5x5 routine and JUST DO IT.

 

[blut wump]

Think of the difference between the columns as finishing your sets and then doing a single with 125lbs. That may not be quite representative of the difference but maybe it puts it into perspective for you.

Aim for column one but if on any particular day it feels like it'll be too much then ease up on yourself. The main aspect of an ongoing weights program is that you progressively increase the load within your own capacity to accept increases.

The way to answer this question is to get into the gym and find your own particular solution. You'll probably find that you take slight variations in what are, essentially, warmup weights completely in your stride.

 

[stalker23]

thanks blunt wump

 

[blut wump]

thanks blunt wump

I try to be blunt but sometimes just blurt.