My reply to the Triple Threat Lab analysis thread

[George Spellwin]

Thanks for having the product tested Cornholio. I would not have suggested we test Triple Threat 3/60 and post the results here if I were not 100% confident in the outcome. Additionally, Elite Fitness is not the place where anyone gets banned for educational posts like this one or where posts of this type get censored. In fact, I’m honored that so many of you care so much about my supplements to go to this sort of trouble.

This said, I know I would be concerned too if I saw preliminary results like those that are posted here.

Here are my comments:

The results posted here look accurate with regards to the carbs, ash, and fat. A bit of background on how protein is tested. First, ash is not the stuff in your fireplace – ash is minerals in the protein powder. In Triple Threat’s case, this comes from the vitamin mineral mix that is added (zinc, iron, copper, etc.) and more significantly from calcium that comes from the milk protein.

Carbohydrates are calculated as follows:

Total Weight – Ash – Protein – Fat - Moisture = Carbohydrates

I think we all agree that the Fat and Carbohydrate count are representative of label claim and I hope you will trust me on my explanation of ash. In fact, I think what you were all afraid of when you set our to have the protein tested, is that Triple Threat might, because it tastes so good, be in fact much higher in Carbs and much higher in Fat than it actually is. I’m glad that this test confirms that the good taste does not come from more carbs or fat than are on the label.

Now, regarding protein, I do not mean to suggest that the sample of Triple Threat tested was somehow compromised in any way, and I know nothing about the lab where the sample was tested, but I would have to take issue with the amount of moisture found in the sample. Typically moisture accounts for 3% to 6% of a food powder’s weight. These lab results would suggest that here, moisture accounted for 26 grams of the 90gram serving size. Indeed, the results suggest that Triple Threat is almost 1/3 moisture. And I think we would all agree, that Triple Threat is no more or less moist than any other protein powder. If the moisture component was more inline with the norm, and with our past analyses, then the protein number would correlate almost perfectly with label claim.

I am interested in seeing the results of the analysis when protein is retested as this much moisture does not stand up to even a simple integrity check. Here are the results of a test we conducted for our internal quality control purposes.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1081289

Lastly, we stand behind our products 100% and as always want you, our members and customers, to be completely satisfied. As always, if any product does not meet your needs, I hope you will return it for a prompt refund without question, but in the case of Triple Threat, I do not think we will find it to be deficient in protein.

 

[HumanShell]

Typically moisture accounts for 3% to 6% of a food powder’s weight. These lab results would suggest that here, moisture accounted for 26 grams of the 90gram serving size. Indeed, the results suggest that Triple Threat is almost 1/3 moisture.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, "about 1/4 moisture" ???

 

[George Spellwin]

Oh, you guys are the best -- I cannot get away with anything. Moisture is about 29%. That's still a lot of moisture!

 

[fistfullofsteel]

so what exactly are you saying in regards to the protein coming up short? that is the most important thing. the way i see it, who in the wide wide worlds sports cares about the other stuff?

 

[George Spellwin]

I do not believe that the analysis suggesting that in a 90 gram serving size, 26 of them are moisture is accurate. I believe the protein grams are understated and the amount of moisture is overstated.

 

[lil k]

thanks for replying George....that was a well thought out response and you made very good points...i am intrested in seeing more on this....however.....i just pounded a triple threat shake with some flax seed oil and either way....you just cant beat it....hands down it is the BEST mrp of all time!

 

[fistfullofsteel]

either the lab is messed up or the company you are dealing with might be screwing with ya, unless you own the factory where they make the stuff.


btw, you can hire some strong arms to make this go away, mafia style.






cornholio sleeps with the fishes tonight.

 

[BigPhysicsBastard]

knowing how many chemical hawks are on here, I find it hard to beleive George would knowingly shaft the protein count. But a good point was brought up about where it comes from. Obviously George came up with the formula but contracts out the manufacturing. So George might be paying to put 60g of protein per serving.....but the folks that make it only put in half that and pocket the rest of the money.......just a thought. Or maybe George really is a dirty bastard.....who knows!!



just messin George, just messin!!!

 

[havoc]

I have not read the entire thread posted by Cornholio, however, if you guys or gals think that your body can assimilate and process 60 grams of protein in one sitting without any being wasted or passed off as an unuseful product by your body then I suggest you check the wooden plate in your head for termites. I know thats not the point, because at times you only take one or two scoops, blah blah. Just to let you know for those who are thinking that George is caniving or attempting to screw you, listen up. The man did not sit down and say "hey, lets lie about the protein content". If the protein is incorrect then I am sure George will fix it. Also, this is just an honest justification. I have never bought a Mass Quantities product and never will. Supplements in general are a hoax my friends. Protein(whey) is the only supplement that I believe does some honest to goodness positivity and that should be used sparingly. There is nothing better than food. The best protein supplements on the market is Scitec, hands down, with Isopure and Designer a close second. peace

 

[danielson]

Protein(whey) is the only supplement that I believe does some honest to goodness positivity and that should be used sparingly. There is nothing better than food.

out of curiousity why do you think that?

is it because you think protein shakes should onlybe used ina a post workout cpacity and all protein should be from whole foods due to quality issues?

and if so, since milk (caesin) and egg (albumin) proteins are the proteins referred to as 'perfect' due to the proprtions of amino acids in them, why would these be bad if taken as a shake (ebelive these 2 and whey are in triple threat)....

just curious

 

[HighIntensity]

Havoc-

you can't deny that creatine if used correctly, is a supplement worth the investment

 

[havoc]

Danielson- I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but I will go with what I think you are inquiring about.
Whey protein should be used sparingly, once or twice a day or with a meal at times. Say for example a gentleman is consuming 7 meals a day, well I hope he is getting 5 of those meals from food. You can read the labels all you want in regards to what is in whey protein, but it cannot compare to whole food whatsoever. I don't believe a label on whey protein, any brand, is 100% accurate. Whether its vitamins, nutrients, protein, carbs, etc, the process to make the whey filters out and destroys alot of these so called ingredients. If I wanted 30 grams of carbs for example, I would eat a banana instead of some carb drink with 30 grams. Food is a necessity, in any form of living. I eat 9 meals a day, 2 of them are shakes with a tablespoon of peanut butter and a banana mixed with 2% milk. Am I absorbing all that protein? No way Miyagi son. Bottom line, food is better, whey should be used for at the max 2-3 meals a day depending on how many meals you are eating, in no way can it replace a full meal. I rather eat a chicken breast with a half cup of rice and half cup of beans right after a workout, but a shake will do for convenient purposes.

High Intensity- Creatine will no longer be in my regiment, my last time using it was last year from May - July. Why? Back in 1995 I used creatine for the first time(Phosphagen), first shit out on the market. Man, that stuff worked some wonders. Now each and every time since 95 that I have tried it, it simply bloats me, thats it. In my statement about supps being a hoax, I should of reworded it, maybe saying "in my own personal experience", my fault. Long run, creatine for me seems completely worthless. peace

 

[danielson]

ahh ok, that makes sense...

pretty much answers my question, just wanted to know why you held that view. makes sense

 

[manny78]

SO as we can all see here its not MM shitty board where anyone gets banned for talking shit about Muscle-Tech. We can discuss in a civilized manner without being banned. I agree its a bit weird (the moist), but I never tried Triple Threat so I have no clue.

 

[youngdeltman]

Just to let you know for those who are thinking that George is caniving or attempting to screw you, listen up. The man did not sit down and say "hey, lets lie about the protein content". If the protein is incorrect then I am sure George will fix it.

It's that simple huh?

It doesn't matter if he said "hey, lets lie about the protein content" or not, he still has the responsability to provide what he (the label) claims.

That's fine for every product purchased from when George corrects it, BUT what about every other Triple Threat product sold before - while it had half the protein content claimed?

That is where the problem lies.

 

[havoc]

It's that simple huh?

It doesn't matter if he said "hey, lets lie about the protein content" or not, he still has the responsability to provide what he (the label) claims.

That's fine for every product purchased from when George corrects it, BUT what about every other Triple Threat product sold before - while it had half the protein content claimed?

That is where the problem lies.

I agree, and I did not want to go in this direction either but..... Why would anyone purchase supplements called "Mass Quantities" in the first place. Its not a "known" brand or reputable in my opinion. If you are going to put shit in your body, you might as well spend the extra $5 bucks, if that, and purchase some scitec, isopure or a brand that has some history behind it. Thats why I say I have never bought Mass Q and never will. And again, to revert back to another statement, "supplements are a hoax". Your fault.

 

[WODIN]

To qoute the great one, the king, the master of Dirty Dieting!!!

"If you want protein eat protein foods, eggs, chicken, beef, most supplements are pure shit." - Dan Duncane

 

[havoc]

To qoute the great one, the king, the master of Dirty Dieting!!!

"If you want protein eat protein foods, eggs, chicken, beef, most supplements are pure shit." - Dan Duncane

As in Duncane Donuts, the one who died because of his years of gear use and still never looked over 150? Yep, thats him. peace



Ducaine!

 

[WODIN]

As in Duncane Donuts, the one who died because of his years of gear use and still never looked over 150? Yep, thats him. peace
Ducaine!

Lick my Llama!

 

[havoc]

The Best by FAR!


http://www.scitecnutrition.com/

 

[havoc]

Lick my Llama!

Which one? Sherri? She is always hospitable.

 

[WODIN]

Which one? Sherri? She is always hospitable.

Sherri charges now... Go figure!!!!

 

[havoc]

Sherri charges now... Go figure!!!!

Bitch!

 

[6(SIC)6]

Havoc-

you can't deny that creatine if used correctly, is a supplement worth the investment

You also cant deny the damage it does to your liver and kidneys.

 

[HighIntensity]

You also cant deny the damage it does to your liver and kidneys.

i said used CORRECTLY...cycled with ample amounts of water and cranberry, creatine is safe and effective...


i cycle creapure creatine 4 times a year, each cycle gives me 10 pounds, i keep 5...

 

[The Shadow]

George - I pointed out that I thought the moisture was too high, and that was something that needed to be looked at again.

I waa truly joking about being banned if the second test did not pan out.

I think that if anything was to be amiss, it would have been the carbohydrate content.

 

[HappyScrappy]

You also cant deny the damage it does to your liver and kidneys.

hmm - any studies beyond the french one that show this? (the french one was shown several times over to 1) be poorly run, and 2) to be wrong)

 

[havoc]

hmm - any studies beyond the french one that show this? (the french one was shown several times over to 1) be poorly run, and 2) to be wrong)

I agree, creatine causes no damage, especially used properly. I just dont like it personally. Its a solid supp for many others though.

 

[The Shadow]

I agree, creatine causes no damage, especially used properly. I just dont like it personally. Its a solid supp for many others though.

Bloating??

For lean folks that can be a problem. If you take w/o a huge sugar chaser it will not bloat as much.

 

[havoc]

Bloating??

For lean folks that can be a problem. If you take w/o a huge sugar chaser it will not bloat as much.

Yes it cause bloating, that does not qualify as damage in a permanent fashion though poop head.

 

[The Shadow]

that does not qualify as damage in a permanent fashion though

Where did I say that??

Bonging again??

 

[havoc]

Where did I say that??

Bonging again??

Exactly my point, why did you even mention "bloating" and have a quote of mine above it. Lets fight bitch!

 

[The Shadow]

Exactly my point, why did you even mention "bloating" and have a quote of mine above it. Lets fight bitch!

LOL!!

I read that you didn't feel it was a good sup for you. I was asking if you had signs of bloating from it, as super lean folks usually do.


Let's rumble.

 

[supersizeme]

I agree, and I did not want to go in this direction either but..... Why would anyone purchase supplements called "Mass Quantities" in the first place. Its not a "known" brand or reputable in my opinion. If you are going to put shit in your body, you might as well spend the extra $5 bucks, if that, and purchase some scitec, isopure or a brand that has some history behind it. Thats why I say I have never bought Mass Q and never will. And again, to revert back to another statement, "supplements are a hoax". Your fault.

This shit is crazy expensive. $40 for a 2lb tub of the high protein, no carbs stuff. Each tub contains 32 scoops at 20g of protein per scoop. I hit about 3-4 shakes a days so this would take 6-8 scoops so that jug would last me 4-5 days. So I would need about 6-7 of these tubs a month, and then cost me about $240-280 per month in supplements. D-D-D-DAMN!!! EAT MOR CHIKIN!!
That's why i buy the cheaper shit

 

[HappyScrappy]

say I wanted to eat more straight up normal food and not the shakes.
say it loud and proud.
havoc says we couldn't absorb all that 60g or protein anyway.
say we absorb half then.
say I have 6 meals.
6*30g = 180g of protein....

so... how exactly am I supposed to get in enough protein to grow?

 

[havoc]

say I wanted to eat more straight up normal food and not the shakes.
say it loud and proud.
havoc says we couldn't absorb all that 60g or protein anyway.
say we absorb half then.
say I have 6 meals.
6*30g = 180g of protein....

so... how exactly am I supposed to get in enough protein to grow?

Say it clear. How about 5 meals at 30 -35 grams guaranteed, then 2 shakes with 30 -35 grams of protein in each. Would that work considering your bodyweight. At most the body can absorb 40 - 45 grams depending on what you have done before you consume it and how you have trained your body to digest protein over time.

 

[havoc]

This shit is crazy expensive. $40 for a 2lb tub of the high protein, no carbs stuff. Each tub contains 32 scoops at 20g of protein per scoop. I hit about 3-4 shakes a days so this would take 6-8 scoops so that jug would last me 4-5 days. So I would need about 6-7 of these tubs a month, and then cost me about $240-280 per month in supplements. D-D-D-DAMN!!! EAT MOR CHIKIN!!
That's why i buy the cheaper shit

I get it for $25 a tub homes. That $40 shit is a rip off. There are several stores here in my area that carry it. peace

 

[havoc]

LOL!!

I read that you didn't feel it was a good sup for you. I was asking if you had signs of bloating from it, as super lean folks usually do.


Let's rumble.

Oh, ok. peace

 

[The Shadow]

say I wanted to eat more straight up normal food and not the shakes.
say it loud and proud.
havoc says we couldn't absorb all that 60g or protein anyway.
say we absorb half then.
say I have 6 meals.
6*30g = 180g of protein....

so... how exactly am I supposed to get in enough protein to grow?

Seems to me that if the body was not able to absorb but 40 grams of protein at a sitting, then I would be expelling huge chunks of undigested protein while on the can.

I agree that Whey has it's place, especially after training, but a casein will be better as it has a longer break down process in the gut for overnight/fasts.

 

[HappyScrappy]

as I understand from what I learned in bio, undigested/unabsorbed protein makes its way through the gut and is then hanging out there where the bacteria that chill in that same place feast on it - the by product of their metabolizing it is gas - methane amongst others. these gasses are odiferous in nature. your body then expels these gasses.
So if you aren't farting up a storm of stinky gas, then you are using what you take in - if you increase the amount you take in and start getting nasty farts, that is a sign that is too much.
I can recall when I first started pushing protein that I had way more gas, and now far less unless I really push it again.
incidentally, ginger root is said to increase digestion/absorption of protein - 500mg per meal as macro on the AS board says.

 

[havoc]

as I understand from what I learned in bio, undigested/unabsorbed protein makes its way through the gut and is then hanging out there where the bacteria that chill in that same place feast on it - the by product of their metabolizing it is gas - methane amongst others. these gasses are odiferous in nature. your body then expels these gasses.
So if you aren't farting up a storm of stinky gas, then you are using what you take in - if you increase the amount you take in and start getting nasty farts, that is a sign that is too much.
I can recall when I first started pushing protein that I had way more gas, and now far less unless I really push it again.
incidentally, ginger root is said to increase digestion/absorption of protein - 500mg per meal as macro on the AS board says.

Interesting, did not know this, but it sounds applicable as hell.

 

[George Spellwin]

I'm locking this one -- let's continue it here:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112270