My Fat Loss plan, advice needed. (Cross-Post)

[Savage]

SaVaGe Mega Fat Loss Diet 60 day plan

CKD type diet, High Fat/Protein and low carbs 6 days M - S
One high carb day, low fat/protein 1 Day Sun

Start Body weight: 264 Fat% 36

Exercise:

PM 4 days a week weight training, Westside System.
PM 3 days a week some form of cardio
PM 7 days Pullups
PM 3 days Grip workout, alternate between
AM 7 days Dive Bomber pushups, Reverse pushups, ab routine from ab book, pushups with bars
AM 3 days Cardio get your lazy ass to the gym.

WestSide Strenght Training:

Sunday Max Effort Squat Day
Tuesday Max Effort Bench Day
Thursday Speed Day Squat Day
Saturday Speed Day Bench Day

Start diet on Monday.


Food is divided into 5 or 6 meals a day.

I was thinking about subtract 500 calories per day for faster fat loss.



DAY BMR cal/day Fat grams Protein grams Carb Grams
1 3009.6 284 113 less than 20grams
2 2851.2 238 178 less than 20grams
3 2692.8 194 236 less than 20grams
4 3168 246 238 less than 20grams
5 2851.2 222 214 less than 20grams
6 2692.8 194 236 less than 20grams
CARB-UP
7 4118.4 46 206 721

Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)
BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). 264 * 12 = 3168

Day:
1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%


2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%


3-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%


4-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR


5-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%


6-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%


Carb-Up:
Day-7-> (CARB-UP) BMR+30% --- ~70%carbs/20%protein/10%fat~ ---


FOOD** CALORIES (1st #) Carbs(2nd#)
1 and ½ oz turkey breast 47 0
1 cup beef bouillon 17 0.1
1 cup chicken broth 39 1
8 oz shrimp 125 0
1/2 lemon without skin 8 2.7
2 oz corn beef 142 0
2 oz beef bologna 76 0.4
2 oz turkey salami 111 0.3
3 oz canned salmon (sockeye) 130 0
3 oz lean ground beef 218 0
3 oz rib eye 191 0
3 oz t-bone steak 182 0
3 oz tenderloin 141 0
3 oz top sirloin steak 176 0
3 oz turkey breast 133 0
3 slices bacon 109 0.1
3 oz eye round roast 143 0
4 oz tuna packed in water 120 0
6 oz beef broth in water 5 0.6
6 oz chicken (baked, brld, or bbq) 300 0
Alfalfa sprouts ½ cup 5 0.6
Cabbage ½ cup cooked 15 3
Celery ½ cup diced 10 2.2
Cucumbers (One Med) 5 1
Diet pop 0 0
Egg white 17 0
Hard boiled or poached egg 65 trace
Lettuce greens Lg (oil and vinegar) 50 1
Mushrooms ½ cup 21 4
Dill Pickles (watch the salt) 5 1
Radishes ½ cup 10 2
Spinach ½ cup cooked 20 3.5
Swiss chard ½ cup cooked 20 3.5
Tea or coffee 0 0
Watercress ½ cup chopped 2 0.2

Use www.fitday.com to monitor food intake and food nutritional values.

Week 1 Goal: Loose 5 lbs 1% fatWeek 2 Goal: Week 3 Goal: Week 4 Goal: One Month Diet Anniversary
Week 5 Goal:
Week 6 Goal:
Week 7 Goal:
Week 8 Goal:


***********BIO

I'm 264lbs and around 30% bodyfat with about 184 lbs lean mass and 30 years old so the metabolism is slowing down. I accomplished this feat through four years of going to the gym on and off, eating 6 times a days, skipping gym days (sometimes weeks at a time) and while moderately juicing.
I'm not sure what diet I should follow.

I try to go to the gym 4 times a weeks and I do a 2 day split for powerlifitng.

I would want to cut my body fat percentage in half in a resoneable amount of time. (I'm allergic to DNP and about all I can find is fina floating around.)

I want to diet down and from a high bodyfat percentage and still manage to maintian strength.
**********

My concearn is to maintain *strength* but loose bodyfat at the same time.

I am debating as weather to change my workout to MAX-OT(1 muscle per day x 5days) for 8 weeks or stay with Westside (2day split). My main goal is strenght and a great secondary goal woiuld be to see some muscles.

(I posted on Diet, PowerLifitng, & training to get a wide range of advice.)

 

[Savage]

Anyone?

 

[MrMakaveli]

Since no-one else is responding I'll give it a shot.

Diet looks ok, calorie cycling is probably a good idea too. Depending on what you feel like doing it might be a good idea to add in some r-ALA for the carb-up.

Your workouts maybe a problem. Wetside on a CKD maybe a problem due to lack of muscle glycogen towards the end of the week. (See how it goes or other responses before changing anything though).

At your bodyfat level, you should be able to lose-bodyfat and gain strength fairly easily with this plan.

Best of luck.

 

[Savage]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[PwB]

At no point should you take in less than .9-1g protein per lb. of lean body mass, meaning take in 184g protein a day. Understand the ratios mean NOTHING unless you need to get into deep ketosis to prevent epileptic seizures. What is most important in getting enough protein, efa's, and just cutting cals reasonably. There is nothing magical about ketosis or certain protein/fat ratios. Trust me on this on, get enough protein, fill the remaining cals w/ fat and dont sweat the ratios. Fat won't spare protein if protein intake is insufficient, u need enough protein each day.

 

[Savage]

I thought about the protien part a whole lot andwas not sure what to do there, I'm still in magazine land where everyone says at least 2.5 g per lbs. So I'm not used to eating so little

 

[PwB]

2.5g per lb is excessive, 1g per lb. should be your minimum unless u want to lose more muscle.

 

[Zagreus]

I do not have alot of time and will respond more latter but you may consider reducing your calories because your current BMR is based upon a body with 30% fat. Also try to keep things as simple as possible in terms of food so it will be easier to succeed. If you haven’t already, check out Mr. X's CKD and TKD articles on his board at www.massmonsters.com.

Zag-

 

[OXANDRIN]

yeah if you are 36% bodyfat any diet will work for you. you don't need CKD. most important is restricting calories. if you are that fat you probably don't have great control of yourself when it comes to eating. make sure you watch calories!!! i would also suggest a revision of that workout plan. and add some cardio in the a.m. on empty stomach

 

[Savage]

I do not have alot of time and will respond more latter but you may consider reducing your calories because your current BMR is based upon a body with 30% fat. Also try to keep things as simple as possible in terms of food so it will be easier to succeed. If you haven’t already, check out Mr. X's CKD and TKD articles on his board at www.massmonsters.com.

Zag-

My numbers are based on Mr. X's CDK worksheet and his CKD diet. I will drop the calories by 500 per day and work from there.

What do you think about the protien? It would be difficult raising the protein because I would have to lower the fat and that would throw the calories off and it would turn out to be a high fat/protein diet vs. a high fat moderate protien diet, as per CKD.

The last 3 days:
Monday 269.5 lbs 36% bodyfat
Tuesday 266.5 lbs 36% bf
Wednesday 263 lbs 36% bf
Last 3 days 6.5 lbs gone. Water?

 

[OXANDRIN]

Last 3 days 6.5 lbs gone. Water?

for sure!

 

[PwB]

Once again save ketosis will likely be achieved REGARDLESS, one can get into ketosis on an ALL PROTEIN, no fat no carb diet such as a protein sparing modified fast. Being in ketosis means little in terms of fat loss or sparing muscle, getting protein is a must. I'm just trying to help out, any other information you read is WRONG. look for information from LYLE MCDONALD, who knows more about keto diets than anyone and wrote by far the best book on keto diets. If u are worried about the ratios or the diet being high fat/moderate protein, fine, lose more muscle. I'm just giving you the facts and the fact is u need adaquete protein, the ratios mean SHIT. Its from old/misinformation. Ketosis will NOT spare protein if inadaquate protein is ingested, period. This isn't based on what u wanna think/believe it is a fact.

 

[Zagreus]

Once again save ketosis will likely be achieved REGARDLESS, one can get into ketosis on an ALL PROTEIN, no fat no carb diet such as a protein sparing modified fast. look for information from LYLE MCDONALD, who knows more about keto diets than anyone and wrote by far the best book on keto diets.

You are wrong. I also highly doubt you have read any of Lyles books or understand the foundation of his material, BodyOps by Dan Duchane and the Metabolic Diet by Dr. Di Pasquale. The Ketogenic cycle is more sparing to muscle tissues in a dieting environment than the Krebs cycle. Furthermore, you need fat to generate Ketones and to prime the Ketogenic energy cycle unless you are morbidly obese, and even then you need healthy fats.

Protien diet alone will be used by muscle tissues then the remaining protien will be converted to glycogen keeping the Krebs cycle fueled.

No fats and no carbs lead to low blood sugar and a bouncing between the Ketogenic and Kreb cycle when exercise is thrown into the mix. You will feel like shit all the time. Not to mention depriving your body of essential fats.

Before you give advice on nutritional physiology make sure you know what you are talking about. People might actually listen to you and fail miserable.

Zag-

 

[Savage]

Thank you for all the replies.

I failed at my last few diets becasue I changed them too fast, and then just quit when things did not work. I did not even give them the chance to work.

I remember a time when I tried CKD without really reading the material and I was eating fat and protien. But I thought I can eat as much as I want, BOY WAS I WRONG. I was eating a few steaks a day, whole packages of cheese, etc.... Horrible and stupid.

My workouts were great but I wasn't losing weight and quit. Since I was used to eating so much, that mixed in with carbs blew me right up.

I'm sorry no offence to you guys but I'm very confused now.

I'm down to 261.5 35% bodyfat from 269.9 36% bodyfat.

 

[Zagreus]

Savage,

You can due it. Use Mr. X CDK EASY TO USE CKD WORKSHEET! to determine your ratios. Then divide the grams/ calories by the amount of meals to be consumed daily. Use these basic foods as your building blocks for non-carb days:

With a scale, measuring spoons and lable reading you can get your ratios down.

Protien and Fat:
Eggs
Steak
Sausage
Turkey ground
Salmon

Protein:
Isopure Pure Protein Powder
Tuna
Chicken
Any White Fish
Egg Whites

Fat:
Safflower Mayo
Flax Oil
Udos Oil
Olive Oil
Grape Oil
Cream Cheese

Follow seasoned pros not rookies. Just put your faith in Mr. X's programs. They are based upon clinical knowledge and experience. Keep it as simple as possible. Dedicate 1 day a week ( I use Sunday) toward cooking and meal planning. Planning and preparation is half the battle. Commitment to following the planning is the other half. Goto www.massmonsters.com to research Mr. X's articles and to ask fine tunning questions. You can PM me if you need more help. I have some first hand experince and knowledge. My roomate and Lyle used to work together as Lyle was writting his first book. He has also taught me alot. But one thing is for sure I am not an expert. Mr. X is.

Zag-

 

[Savage]

Thanks!

 

[Savage]

Here is what I have been eating. I know I can improve in some areas's. I know its hard to read.

Here is what I have been doing: (from my www.fitday.com journal)

3/3/03
Sex: Male Age: 30
Weight: 269.5 lb


Foods Eaten Today
Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Polish sausage 14 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 1215 106 8 52
European Salad 12 oz 40 0 12 2
Walden Farms Calorie Free Ranch Dressing 4 tablespoon 0 0 0 0
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 6 tablespoon 463 48 7 4
Chicken Florentine 12 oz 420 15 6 66
Olive oil 4 tablespoon 477 54 0 0
UDO's Oil Caps 2 serving 20 2 0 0
Total Calories 2635 225 33 124

Calories Eaten Today
Total: 2635
Fat: 2029
Saturated: 580
Polyunsat: 392
Monounsat: 920
Carbohydrates: 117
Protein: 498
Alcohol: 0

3/4/03
Weight: 265.5 lb

Foods Eaten Today
Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Head cheese 2 medium slice (4" x 4" x 3/32") (1 oz) 120 9 0 9
Polish sausage 10 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 868 76 6 37
Mustard 1 teaspoon 3 0 0 0
Mushrooms, pickled 3 small 5 0 1 1
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, roasted, skin not eaten 6.25 oz, with bone, cooked, without skin (yield after bone removed) 225 5 0 42
Pork bacon, smoked or cured, cooked 4 oz, cooked 645 55 1 34
Olive oil 3 tablespoon 358 41 0 0
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 5 tablespoon 386 40 6 4
Finfish, tuna, white, canned in water, drained solids 1 can 220 5 0 41
Total Calories 2848 231 17 169


Calories Eaten
Calories Eaten Today
Total: 2848
Fat: 2080
Saturated: 593
Polyunsat: 395
Monounsat: 988
Carbohydrates: 57
Protein: 678
Alcohol: 0

3/5/03
Weight: 263.5 lb

Foods Eaten Today
Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 5 jumbo 561 42 4 38
Beef, bacon, cooked 4 oz, cooked 503 39 2 35
Cucumber pickles, dill 4.75 medium (3-3/4" long) 56 1 13 2
Beef, round, top round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, raw 22 oz 954 39 0 142
Onions, mature, raw 2 small 53 0 12 2
Pepper, sweet, red, raw 1 large (2.25 per pound, approx 3-3/4" long, 3" dia) 44 0 11 1
Celery, raw 5 medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long) 32 0 7 2
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Olive oil 2 tablespoon 239 27 0 0
UDO's Oil Caps 4 serving 40 4 0 0
VS Flaxseed oil 1 tablespoon 130 14 0 0
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 3 tablespoon 231 24 3 2
Crustaceans, crab, alaska king, imitation, made from surimi 4.5 oz 130 2 13 15
Total Calories 2992 192 68 241


Calories Eaten
Calories Eaten Today
Total: 2992
Fat: 1729
Saturated: 470
Polyunsat: 373
Monounsat: 726
Carbohydrates: 210
Protein: 966
Alcohol: 0

3/6/02 ( Not Complete yet)

Weight: 261.5 lb Weight Goal: 225 lb by 05/01/2003



My Daily Journal
Fired up on Charge. No appetite.


Foods Eaten Today
Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 4 jumbo 449 34 3 31
Beef, bacon, cooked 3 oz, cooked 377 29 1 26
Cucumber pickles, dill 4 medium (3-3/4" long) 47 0 11 2
Beef, short loin, top loin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, cooked, broiled 11 oz 764 42 0 89
Mixed salad greens, raw 3 cup, shredded or chopped 27 0 5 3
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 4 tablespoon 308 32 5 3
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Walden Farms Calorie Free Ranch Dressing 2 fl oz 0 0 0 0
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 2.5 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 115 2 0 22
VS Flaxseed oil 2 tablespoon 260 28 0 0
Total Calories 2466 182 24 175


Activities Done Today
Activity Time Spent Cals Burned
Weight lifting (free weight, nautilus, or universal-type), power lifting or body building, vigorous effort 1:00 505
Wash dishes 0:05 11
Total Calories Burned 515


Calories Eaten Today
Total: 2466
Fat: 1639
Saturated: 443
Polyunsat: 448
Monounsat: 612
Carbohydrates: 71
Protein: 700
Alcohol: 0


The carbs mostly come from green stuff.

 

[PwB]

Zagreus, u really don't know anything, do you. First off Bodyopus is WAY outdated. The information is shit. Ketosis per se is not protein sparing. Adaquate protein intake is absolutely required to spare muscle on ANY diet, ketogenic or not. I happen to own Lyle's book, have read it thoroughly, and happen to talk to Lyle every few days through email. I also read everything he talks about on other discussion boards.

Ketosis and Krebs cycle dont run completely independ of one another. From Lyle. Fatty acids can not be completely oxidized without sufficient fuel for the krebs cycle (I forget offhand which is the limiting step, maybe oxaloacetate). It doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. Anyhow, when your body needs more oxaloacetate, it will get it by taking certain amino acids, glycerol, and lactate through gluconeogenesis to make glucose. Kreb's won't run at full tilt, but it doesn't stop completely (or reverse as some of hte anti-keto nitwits have stated).

You have it ass-backwards as many ignorant people do regarding ketosis, even DiPasquale repeats this crap in his Metabolic Diet (which is a cut and paste of his old Anabolic Diet w/ little new information) To establish ketosis, what is necessary is the ABSENCE of carbs, not the presence of fat. It is when glucose levels are low that ketosis can develop, and again, I repeat, ketosis can EASILY be established on a low carb, low fat diet w/ adaquete protein, and ketosis ALSO develops during complete starvation, when no food is ingested. One does NOT need to eat a high fat diet to be in ketosis. Eating fat DOES NOT increase fat burning activity, keeping carbs and calories low DOES. But u obviously can't read, nor can u understand my recommendations. It was to increase protein slightly (on Mon) to get 1g protein per lb. each day. I didnt recommend no fat, Its a well known fact that fats are necessary in the diet, I wasn't argueing that. Do u even know which fats ARE necessary??

Some recent quotes from Lyle Mcdonald regarding keto diets.

Setting the diet up:
"yeah, you forgot to create a caloric deficit. Very important to a fat
loss diet.

Also, forget percentages, set up the diet this way
a. set calories for fat loss: 10-12 cal/lb is a good starting place
b. set protein: 0.9-1 g/lb lean body mass
c. set carbs: even at minimum figure 10 g/day
d. the rest is fat: so subtract total calories from 'b' and 'c' from 'a'

In practice you end up with roughly a 50/50 protein:fat ratio but it
still doesn't matter."

"yes, it does. Excess protein will produce so much glucose that ketosis
doesn't develop.
But ketosis just doesn't appear to be that big of a deal in the first
place. Not for dieting applications anyhow. It certainly doesn't have
the impact on overall body copm changes that anybody (including Dan) had
hoped for. I'd rather see adequate protein intake than ketosis given
the choice."

"Carbohydrate is 100% anti-ketogenic, hence it's value of 1.
Protein is ~58% anti-ketogenic (because 58% of protein can be converted
to glucose) (and 42% ketogenic) hence it's value.
Fat is 100% ketogenic.

My point is that ketosis just doesn't seem to be that big of a deal for
the most part. Some studies (for review see Elia) suggest that it only
spares protein between a range of bodyfat percentage (~15-40% or so).
Both above and below that the effect is negligble (although for
different reasons). AS well, the studies showing a pronounced effect of
ketosis in terms of protein sparing are either during starvation (and
not everyone agrees that it's a true protein sparing effect, some think
that the reduction in nitrogen loss is due solely to a reduction in
metabolic rate) or when protein intake is inadequate to begin with.

But at a fundamental level, the best way to spare protein is to eat
enough protein in the first place. Ketosis would be purely secondary to
that. If being in ketosis requires you to eat inadequate protein, I
consider that a poor trade-off. 0.9-1 g/lb LBM of protein will allow
ketosis in most people, as long as carbs are low enough. Strict
application of the KR (or the 30/70 ratios) within the context of a
reduced calorie diet put most people at inadequate protein intakes.

But, for epileptic children, inadequate protein intake (and make no
mistake, their protein intakes are inadequate and many show impaired
growth and catch-up growth when they go off the diet) is if secondary
importance to seizure control.

Hence, the KR assumes different levels of importance depending on what
population you're talking about. For dieters, protein comes first,
ketosis comes second; for epileptic children, ketosis (and apparently
deep ketosis) comes first, protein comes second."

I can keep going but its a waste of my time trying to teach a troll. Once again, I never recommended an all protein diet and when u learn to read you'll realize what I said.

 

[Zagreus]

PwB ,

First let me apologize for flaming you. I could have argued more productively. So lets stop the flaming please.

I agree with you for the most part. I am guilty of oversimplifying and being too critical of your all protein statement. We are saying basically the same thing, though I am going more conservative for the layman, which I am sure you can understand.

I agree with the amount of protein you say to consume. I took issue for the layman because from my personal past keto diet failures due to not enough fat consumption in a low to no carb environment. I find I need at least 30% fat with the rest coming from protein and ancillary carbs to succeed in a keto diet. Otherwise, I bounce in and out of ketosis because of the glycogen produced from the excess protein intake. I then end up having low energy and feel like shit. My roommate whom worked with Lyle during his Body-Ops program and his subsequent first book also had similar failures until he raised his fat. You may know him, he is a bio-chemist with an emphasis in human physiology "Alexi Vinogradov." He will not take any less than 50% fat in his daily consumption and consistently maintains 5-8% body fat year around on CKD.

Lastly:

I can keep going but its a waste of my time trying to teach a troll.

You are not wasting your time. Save your posts in word and cut and past them. They help alot of people.

Kind Regards,

Zag-

 

[PwB]

Zag, flaming is over. Sorry too.

Glad u got the point of what I was saying. As an interesting side not, it seems that your roomate adapted well to the high fat intake. New research is showing there are differences in peoples abilities to utilize fats efficiently as energy, high fat and low fat phenotypes. I personally dont handle higher fat intakes well, so I usually follow a high protein, low carb, moderate fat diet. I agree fat intake generally shouldn't go fat below 30% of energy. It has the benefits of providing fats for hormone production, fullness, EFA requirements, food variety, etc. I've tried low carbs and low fat and it isn't fun, I agree. Although it can work well, if protein is high enough (like 2g per lb) it can be used as an expensive glucose source. Charles Poliqun and Dr. Serrano and beverly international all use this technique to lean clients out.

 

[Savage]

UPDATE

I couldn't post becsaue my acocunt needed to be reverified and I did not know that.

Anyway here's my progress so far;

Day 1
269.5 38% Fat, 167.09 lean mass.


Day 6
259 35% Fat, 168.35 Lean mass.

Looks like I'm moving in the right direction and I haven't started my cardio yet.
I'm also taking 75mg fina EOD , Omna250 Every 3-4 Days (not sure if I should do 3 or 4) and 1cc's EOD of knyoselen(authentic not hte H shit) I have some clomid from about three years ago. taking that once a week.

I going with Mr. X's advice to skip carb ups until I hit 20% bodyfat, do the CKD cycle until I hit ketosis and once in ketosis do a 70% fat 30% protien split until 20%. Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[Savage]

Day 8 258 36%

Why is my bodyfat percentage not going down? I've been in Ketosis for a few days now, I check regularly with keto strips.


Hahaha a tid bit for the amatuer chefs out there like me. Last night I threw some turkey burgers in a frying pan sprayed with PAM cooking spray on top of the burgers I put a whopping does of chilli powder.

When I flipped those bad boys I filled the house with smoke, started coughing and had to open all the windows. Ladies and Gentleman homemade tear gas.

 

[Savage]

Day 9 260 34%

Dropping the knyo, because it may interfere with ketosis.
Still doing 70/30 split no carb up days until 20%

 

[AustinTX]

overall, your calories and especially the calories from fat are WAY too high. you're addressing a short term goal, but are not making changes that are necessary to maintain a healthy diet and weight. Learning to live on a healthy diet is much more important to your health and long term success, than a diet which will not enforce proper eating habits for life. Without making those changes, you are not doing yourself any favors.

If you're ever going to be sucessful maintaining a lower body fat % you need to drop the cheese, and some of those awful salad dressings you're using. A healthy diet is the key to long term success.

Some days you have 70-80% of your calories from FAT. That is insane. Those sort of diets can work in the short term, but you really need to address the bad eating habits you have, and severly cutting back on the fats (most of which are not "healthy" fats, adding healthy fats is necessary if you are on a very low fat diet %5-10% of your totaly calories, at the fat calories you're consuming, you're just adding more unnecessary fat) will be key to maintianing a healthy weight. If you can't cut your dependence on fatty foods, you'll never be able to maintain a healthy weight.

You MUST look beyond a quick fix that will leave you set to go right back to where you were and eat healthy in smaller portions with much less fat. You are officially "morbidly obese", and need to make serious diet and lifestyle changes that you can live with for the rest of your life.

Read the contents on those turkey burgers too, some of them are mostly ground fat and not at all healthy.

This isn't a flame, but it does not appear to me that you are making the necessary changes to your lifestyle and diet to be sucessful.

Bottom line, you need to address your eating habbits first, and quick looking for quick fixes including the anabolics your're taking until you can maintain a healthy lifestyle.

The diet you're on is good for people who are at lower BF percentages, and have healthy eating habbits in place to maintain their loses. It does not appear that you have these.

 

[Savage]

Day 10 257 35%

Thank you for the advice. I adjusted the calories to bodyweight x 10.

IN the past I failed at dieting because I changed the diet too quickly and then just quit.

Mr. X has helped me devise this diet anf he suggests 70% Fat and 30% Protein no carb up until I get to 20% Bodyfat.


I want to do the right thing. I really do, I'm so confused about dieting. The last 3 years have been a mess. So I want to stick with this Keto Diet for a while.

It seems to be working? I don't know, my number are in my signature.


Confused.

 

[PwB]

The ONLY thing that matters when it comes to fat loss is calories. you are caught up on this keto thing as I once was. Fine, eat keto, but don't think the ratios mean shit. All that matters is getting enough protein, EFA's, and a calorie defecit. The ratios of 70% fat, 30% protein or whatever mean shit, I promise u this. Thats why I made the arguement of getting enough protein and not worrying about getting a certain percentage of fat. The reason u didnt lose fat in your above post was b/c calories were too high. There is nothing magical about ketosis, I STRONGLY suggest you buy "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle Mcdonald then u won't be as confused or misled about the working of a ketogenic diet. This book gets to the SCIENCE of what is going on, not just BS suggestions taken from Dan Duchaine who had a lot of misinformation in his BodyOpus book and Dr. Dipasquale who doesnt know the difference between rat studies and humans.

 

[ProteinFiend]

you NEED to lift while on a keto diet... if you dont you will lose a lot of muscle... thus explaining while your bodyfat is still so high... workout 3-4 times a week with HEAVY weights.... maybe a 5x5 routine (5 sets of 5 reps, lifting heavy)... this will preserve muscle mass and you might actually be able to make some gains...

also, you are eating too much fat... especially unhealthy fat... (but austin already made a nice post addressing that).. im thinking maybe you should eat 300-350g fat, 250g protein... 0-20g carbs... not sure of the cals off the top of my head...

another to do is to try not to eat 1hr before bed... that should cut down on you storing fat while you sleep

well, good luck, and stick with it!

 

[Savage]

I understand why you guys are saying.

I thought bw x 10 was a calorie deficit. Am I wrong?

I hit the gym 4 times a week. I work out heavy.

Here is what I ahve been eating since my last food post.

3/7/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Pork bacon, smoked or cured, lower sodium 4 oz, cooked 645 55 1 34
Cucumber pickles, dill 7 medium (3-3/4" long) 82 1 19 3
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Egg, whole, baked, fat not added in cooking 3 jumbo 287 19 2 24
Beef, short loin, top loin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, cooked, broiled 10.5 oz 729 40 0 85
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 4 tablespoon 308 32 5 3
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Crustaceans, crab, alaska king, imitation, made from surimi 4.5 oz 130 2 13 15
Corned beef, canned, ready-to-eat 2.2 oz, boneless 156 9 0 17
UDO's Oil Caps 2 serving 20 2 0 0
Total Calories 2614 188 43 183

3/8/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 small 7 0 2 0
Egg, whole, fried 6 jumbo 673 51 5 46
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Onions, mature, raw 1 small 27 0 6 1
Sauce, ready-to-serve, pepper or hot 1 teaspoon 1 0 0 0
Polish sausage 6 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 521 46 4 22
Polish sausage 4 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 347 30 2 15
Cucumber pickles, dill 2 medium (3-3/4" long) 23 0 5 1
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 8 oz, boneless, raw, without skin (yield after cooking) 236 5 0 44
Onions, mature, raw 1 small 27 0 6 1
Olive oil 2.5 tablespoon 298 34 0 0
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Ground beef, regular, cooked 3.5 oz, cooked 281 20 0 23

3/9/3

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 medium (3-3/4" long) 12 0 3 0
Egg, whole, fried 4 jumbo 449 34 3 31
Olive oil 2 tablespoon 239 27 0 0
Ground beef, regular, cooked 3.25 oz, cooked 261 19 0 22
Sauce, ready-to-serve, pepper or hot 1 teaspoon 1 0 0 0
Tuna, canned, water pack 1 can (6.5 oz), drained 194 1 0 43
Cashew nuts, roasted (assume salted) 2 oz (18 kernels) 327 27 16 9
Beef jerky 1 Giant Jerk 74 5 2 6
Coffee, dry instant powder, regular 2 teaspoon, dry 4 0 1 0
Cream, heavy, fluid 2 fl oz 205 22 2 1
Seafood Stuff 8 oz 200 2 5 32
Celery, raw 3 oz, raw, yields 12 0 3 1
Poultry food products, ground turkey, cooked 1 patty (4 oz, raw) (yield after cooking) 193 11 0 22
KRAFT American, white 3 slice 150 9 3 12
Flax seed oil, 1 tbsn 2 Quantity not specified 260 28 0 0
Mixed salad greens, raw 1 cup, shredded or chopped 9 0 2 1
Total Calories 2588 185 39 180

3/10/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 5 jumbo 561 42 4 38
Ground beef, regular, cooked 4 oz, cooked 321 23 0 27
Beef, short loin, top loin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, cooked, broiled 10.5 oz 729 40 0 85
Cucumber pickles, dill 5 small 33 0 8 1
Wine, cooking (assume cooked) 2 fl oz 17 0 1 0
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 0.5 cup 9 0 1 1
Beef, round, top round, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, select, raw 0.44 lb 311 14 0 44
Pepper, sweet, red, raw 0.5 cup, sliced 12 0 3 0
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 0.5 cup 9 0 1 1
VS Flaxseed oil 3 tablespoon 390 42 0 0
Polish sausage 4.5 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 391 34 3 17
Total Calories 2783 196 20 215

3/11/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 2 jumbo 224 17 2 15
Poultry food products, ground turkey, cooked 1 patty (4 oz, raw) (yield after cooking) 193 11 0 22
Mushrooms, cooked, from fresh, fat not added in cooking 1 cup 42 1 8 3
Celery, raw 2 medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long) 13 0 3 1
Beef, round, bottom round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, select, raw 6.4 oz 247 9 0 40
Mayonnaise, regular 4 tablespoon 396 44 1 1
Tuna, canned, water pack 2 can (6.5 oz), drained 387 3 0 85
Celery, raw 1 medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long) 6 0 1 0
Cucumber pickles, dill 3 small 20 0 5 1
VS Flaxseed oil 2 tablespoon 260 28 0 0
Cream, half and half 4.4 fl oz 173 15 6 4
VS Flaxseed oil 2 tablespoon 260 28 0 0

3/12/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, boiled 6 jumbo 602 41 4 49
Mayonnaise, regular 5 tablespoon 495 55 2 1
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 1 cup 18 0 2 3
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 small 7 0 2 0
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, fried, no coating, skin not eaten 7 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 361 9 0 65
Cucumber, raw 1 medium 24 0 5 1
Olive oil 1.5 tablespoon 179 20 0 0
UDO's Oil Caps 2 serving 20 2 0 0
Beef, round, bottom round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, select, raw 6 oz 231 8 0 37
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Olive oil 4 tablespoon 477 54 0 0
Egg, whole, boiled 1 jumbo 100 7 1 8
Egg, white only, cooked 2 white 33 0 1 7
Total Calories 2566 197 19 173



Accrding to FitDay.com I am buring more calores per day than I eat.
I am eating 257 X 10 = 2570 calories per day
I looked online at a BMR calculator and my BMR is 2373.

 

[Savage]

I understand why you guys are saying.

I thought bw x 10 was a calorie deficit. Am I wrong?

I hit the gym 4 times a week. I work out heavy.

Here is what I ahve been eating since my last food post.

3/7/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Pork bacon, smoked or cured, lower sodium 4 oz, cooked 645 55 1 34
Cucumber pickles, dill 7 medium (3-3/4" long) 82 1 19 3
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Egg, whole, baked, fat not added in cooking 3 jumbo 287 19 2 24
Beef, short loin, top loin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, cooked, broiled 10.5 oz 729 40 0 85
Blue or roquefort cheese dressing 4 tablespoon 308 32 5 3
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Crustaceans, crab, alaska king, imitation, made from surimi 4.5 oz 130 2 13 15
Corned beef, canned, ready-to-eat 2.2 oz, boneless 156 9 0 17
UDO's Oil Caps 2 serving 20 2 0 0
Total Calories 2614 188 43 183

3/8/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 small 7 0 2 0
Egg, whole, fried 6 jumbo 673 51 5 46
Olive oil 1 tablespoon 119 14 0 0
Onions, mature, raw 1 small 27 0 6 1
Sauce, ready-to-serve, pepper or hot 1 teaspoon 1 0 0 0
Polish sausage 6 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 521 46 4 22
Polish sausage 4 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 347 30 2 15
Cucumber pickles, dill 2 medium (3-3/4" long) 23 0 5 1
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, broiled, skin not eaten 8 oz, boneless, raw, without skin (yield after cooking) 236 5 0 44
Onions, mature, raw 1 small 27 0 6 1
Olive oil 2.5 tablespoon 298 34 0 0
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Ground beef, regular, cooked 3.5 oz, cooked 281 20 0 23

3/9/3

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 medium (3-3/4" long) 12 0 3 0
Egg, whole, fried 4 jumbo 449 34 3 31
Olive oil 2 tablespoon 239 27 0 0
Ground beef, regular, cooked 3.25 oz, cooked 261 19 0 22
Sauce, ready-to-serve, pepper or hot 1 teaspoon 1 0 0 0
Tuna, canned, water pack 1 can (6.5 oz), drained 194 1 0 43
Cashew nuts, roasted (assume salted) 2 oz (18 kernels) 327 27 16 9
Beef jerky 1 Giant Jerk 74 5 2 6
Coffee, dry instant powder, regular 2 teaspoon, dry 4 0 1 0
Cream, heavy, fluid 2 fl oz 205 22 2 1
Seafood Stuff 8 oz 200 2 5 32
Celery, raw 3 oz, raw, yields 12 0 3 1
Poultry food products, ground turkey, cooked 1 patty (4 oz, raw) (yield after cooking) 193 11 0 22
KRAFT American, white 3 slice 150 9 3 12
Flax seed oil, 1 tbsn 2 Quantity not specified 260 28 0 0
Mixed salad greens, raw 1 cup, shredded or chopped 9 0 2 1
Total Calories 2588 185 39 180

3/10/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 5 jumbo 561 42 4 38
Ground beef, regular, cooked 4 oz, cooked 321 23 0 27
Beef, short loin, top loin, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, prime, cooked, broiled 10.5 oz 729 40 0 85
Cucumber pickles, dill 5 small 33 0 8 1
Wine, cooking (assume cooked) 2 fl oz 17 0 1 0
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 0.5 cup 9 0 1 1
Beef, round, top round, separable lean and fat, trimmed to 1/8" fat, select, raw 0.44 lb 311 14 0 44
Pepper, sweet, red, raw 0.5 cup, sliced 12 0 3 0
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 0.5 cup 9 0 1 1
VS Flaxseed oil 3 tablespoon 390 42 0 0
Polish sausage 4.5 oz, raw (yield after cooking) 391 34 3 17
Total Calories 2783 196 20 215

3/11/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, fried 2 jumbo 224 17 2 15
Poultry food products, ground turkey, cooked 1 patty (4 oz, raw) (yield after cooking) 193 11 0 22
Mushrooms, cooked, from fresh, fat not added in cooking 1 cup 42 1 8 3
Celery, raw 2 medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long) 13 0 3 1
Beef, round, bottom round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, select, raw 6.4 oz 247 9 0 40
Mayonnaise, regular 4 tablespoon 396 44 1 1
Tuna, canned, water pack 2 can (6.5 oz), drained 387 3 0 85
Celery, raw 1 medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long) 6 0 1 0
Cucumber pickles, dill 3 small 20 0 5 1
VS Flaxseed oil 2 tablespoon 260 28 0 0
Cream, half and half 4.4 fl oz 173 15 6 4
VS Flaxseed oil 2 tablespoon 260 28 0 0

3/12/03

Food Name Servings Cals Fat Carb Prot
Egg, whole, boiled 6 jumbo 602 41 4 49
Mayonnaise, regular 5 tablespoon 495 55 2 1
Gelatin dessert, dietetic, sweetened with low calorie sweetener 1 cup 18 0 2 3
Cucumber pickles, dill 1 small 7 0 2 0
Chicken, breast, with or without bone, fried, no coating, skin not eaten 7 oz, boneless, cooked, skinless 361 9 0 65
Cucumber, raw 1 medium 24 0 5 1
Olive oil 1.5 tablespoon 179 20 0 0
UDO's Oil Caps 2 serving 20 2 0 0
Beef, round, bottom round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4" fat, select, raw 6 oz 231 8 0 37
Mixed salad greens, raw 2 cup, shredded or chopped 18 0 3 2
Olive oil 4 tablespoon 477 54 0 0
Egg, whole, boiled 1 jumbo 100 7 1 8
Egg, white only, cooked 2 white 33 0 1 7
Total Calories 2566 197 19 173



Accrding to FitDay.com I am buring more calores per day than I eat.
I am eating 257 X 10 = 2570 calories per day
I looked online at a BMR calculator and my BMR is 2373.

How does my diet look now?

Is it normal for the bodyfat to do that? See signature.

 

[ProteinFiend]

probably not... but how reliable is your instrument for measuring bodyfat? the only real accurate ones are displacement scales (water and air, i think)...

so its porbably just inaccuracies in the instrument.... but you've lost 12 pounds... so i say stick with

rather than go by the scale id go by the mirror and how you feel... if your not shit tired, and you are losing inches... i say stick with it!

 

[Savage]

I changed the batteries in the scale and still get different results everyday.

Day 14 253.5 lbs 34% Bodyfat.


I took some poictures last week and yesterday and I can see a small difference.

 

[Savage]

Day 23 249lbs 33 % bodyfat.

 

[Savage]

Day 34 247 33% Using Bodyfat scale

I tested with skin calipers and I'm at 21% bodyfat. I gained 3 lbs this week because I cheated and drank some alcohol and had an special dinner with desert.

It looks like the bodyfat scale is not accurate anymore. it used to be. I took an online test and the skin fold test and both come close to 21%

 

[Savage]

Lost a total of 30 lbs doing 70%Protein 30% fat for 50 days and 2 weeks of CKD.


Decided it was time for a change so I contated SwoleCat and he's helping me out now. the program looks great nas he has nothing but rave reviews.