Mr.X,Ulther,Bowtech, Radar, please help with pct

[Juicta]

I know the normall pct generally start approx 2-3 weeks after last shot depending on what you are taking etc etc, I just wanted to find out what you guys suggest, I'm currently on a 12 weeker (1000mg Test, 400mg Deca per week) almost finished want to take a 4 week break and then do another 12 weeks pre contest stack, any advice on what I should use for pct and how much I should use or should I rather stay on the whole time (maybe 500mg Test for the four off weeks)? Not too keen but know alot of guys do it, in the past I've generally taken at least 6 weeks off @ a time and done proper pct and blood work, but this time round there is a bit of as time contraint, any adivce guys...

 

[macrophage69alpha]

stay on, do a course of HCG/AI/SERM for 2-3 weeks of that time.

4 weeks off is just going to be unpleasant to your endocrine system

 

[Mr.X]

I know the normall pct generally start approx 2-3 weeks after last shot depending on what you are taking etc etc, I just wanted to find out what you guys suggest, I'm currently on a 12 weeker (1000mg Test, 400mg Deca per week) almost finished want to take a 4 week break and then do another 12 weeks pre contest stack, any advice on what I should use for pct and how much I should use or should I rather stay on the whole time (maybe 500mg Test for the four off weeks)? Not too keen but know alot of guys do it, in the past I've generally taken at least 6 weeks off @ a time and done proper pct and blood work, but this time round there is a bit of as time contraint, any adivce guys...

This is a modified repost, you'll do well with this.

Go with HCG, 10 days x 500 IU /day - at the start of PCT

week 1-2: .25mgs arimidex ED
week 1: 300mgs clomid ED + 40mgs nolvadex ED
week 2: 200mgs Clomid ED + 40mgs nolvadex ED
week 3: 100mgs Clomid ED + 20mgs nolvadex ED
week 4: 50mgs clomid ED

You can also check out anthony robert's article on aromasin for PCT. I'll see if I can dig up a link for you.

 

[Ulter]

I think given that fact that your PCT isn't likely to restart your HPTA in 4 weeks anyway, and if it did you'll be shutting down the next week, PCT is probably a waste. But if you want to do it and blow up your testes. I would use HCG for 10 days at 1000iu/day and AIFM throughout the PCT and again throughout the next cycle.

 

[steelmass]

I think given that fact that your PCT isn't likely to restart your HPTA in 4 weeks anyway, and if it did you'll be shutting down the next week, PCT is probably a waste. But if you want to do it and blow up your testes. I would use HCG for 10 days at 1000iu/day and AIFM throughout the PCT and again throughout the next cycle.

I agree 100%. Just use it to bridge and regain testicular function.

 

[Mr.X]

I agree 100%. Just use it to bridge and regain testicular function.

I disagree. Him taking 4-6 weeks off, instead of a bridge (i.e. still being on a cycle), is much more beneficial. There are health problems involved in long-term cycling without any breaks.

 

[steelmass]

I think if he was willing to take 6 weeks off with NO AAS in his system then he should absolutely do a proper PCT - but he is running a decanoate ester - halflife 10 days so his deca won't clear for around 3 weeks. That way he'd only have 1 true off week before he wants to start again. He doesn't have time for PCT - either bridge or real PCT. Don't do halfassed week long PCT.

 

[Mr.X]

I think if he was willing to take 6 weeks off with NO AAS in his system then he should absolutely do a proper PCT - but he is running a decanoate ester - halflife 10 days so his deca won't clear for around 3 weeks. That way he'd only have 1 true off week before he wants to start again. He doesn't have time for PCT - either bridge or real PCT. Don't do halfassed week long PCT.

Active half-life of Deca-durabolin is 14 days. So there are some things to consider, but if he takes his 4-6 weeks off, he should do a proper PCT.

 

[bigmouth2006]

This is a modified repost, you'll do well with this.

Go with HCG, 10 days x 500 IU /day - at the start of PCT

week 1-2: .25mgs arimidex ED
week 1: 300mgs clomid ED + 40mgs nolvadex ED
week 2: 200mgs Clomid ED + 40mgs nolvadex ED
week 3: 100mgs Clomid ED + 20mgs nolvadex ED
week 4: 50mgs clomid ED

You can also check out anthony robert's article on aromasin for PCT. I'll see if I can dig up a link for you.

why not run the l-dex straight through all 4 weeks it helps boost test levels

 

[Mr.X]

why not run the l-dex straight through all 4 weeks it helps boost test levels

There is no need to run an AI the whole cycle. The layout I gave is more then enough for him.

 

[bigmouth2006]

There is no need to run an AI the whole cycle. The layout I gave is more then enough for him.

why not just run the l-dex at .5 for 1-4 and not even use the nolvadex the l-dex is better than nolv.

 

[Mr.X]

why not just run the l-dex at .5 for 1-4 and not even use the nolvadex the l-dex is better than nolv.

It's not a cycle, for PCT he needs a SERM like nolvadex, not an AI. What you say would hold true for his cycle (time on).

 

[steelmass]

Active half-life of Deca-durabolin is 14 days. So there are some things to consider, but if he takes his 4-6 weeks off, he should do a proper PCT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2864156&dopt=Abstract

The decanoate produces an early high peak which occurs during the first day and then declines with an apparent half-life ranging from 6.8 to 9.6 days following a single injection. After multiple injections of fluphenazine decanoate, however, the mean apparent half-life increases to 14.3 days, and the time to reach steady-state is 4 to 6 weeks.

Ok, you are correct on the active half-life. I am slightly confused on the scientific aspect. I took Chem 1 and 2 in college but thats about as far as my biochem goes.

Correct me at any time, I am not trying to argue - just learn. The decanoate ester has the same half life regardless of the chemical it is attached to so DecaD's half-life can be approximated by fluphenazine decanoates - correct? So if the half-life after multiple injections is 14.3 days then does that mean that you will have a dose that won't effect your test levels after 14 days or that you will have half the amount in your body as you did 14 days ago.

How much of a drug (say Deca) will suppress you? Is it when your levels dip under 50 ? Under 25? 10 ? www.roidcalc.com shows the active mg/day. 14 days after your 6th week @ 500mg once weekly you have a blood concentration level of 24 - assuming you stop at week 6 inject. Is that suppressive? 21 days after your 6th inject you have 12. Is that suppressive? Thanks.

 

[AhMadKooL]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2864156&dopt=Abstract

The decanoate produces an early high peak which occurs during the first day and then declines with an apparent half-life ranging from 6.8 to 9.6 days following a single injection. After multiple injections of fluphenazine decanoate, however, the mean apparent half-life increases to 14.3 days, and the time to reach steady-state is 4 to 6 weeks.

Ok, you are correct on the active half-life. I am slightly confused on the scientific aspect. I took Chem 1 and 2 in college but thats about as far as my biochem goes.

Correct me at any time, I am not trying to argue - just learn. The decanoate ester has the same half life regardless of the chemical it is attached to so DecaD's half-life can be approximated by fluphenazine decanoates - correct? So if the half-life after multiple injections is 14.3 days then does that mean that you will have a dose that won't effect your test levels after 14 days or that you will have half the amount in your body as you did 14 days ago.

How much of a drug (say Deca) will suppress you? Is it when your levels dip under 50 ? Under 25? 10 ? www.roidcalc.com shows the active mg/day. 14 days after your 6th week @ 500mg once weekly you have a blood concentration level of 24 - assuming you stop at week 6 inject. Is that suppressive? 21 days after your 6th inject you have 12. Is that suppressive? Thanks.

I think after 14 days you'll have half the amount of the drug that you had in the beginning

 

[bigmouth2006]

It's not a cycle, for PCT he needs a SERM like nolvadex, not an AI. What you say would hold true for his cycle (time on).

ok, then why use it all?

 

[BOWTECH]

Bro this debate can go on and on. There are good points from both sides of the spectrum. I would definately use some HCG though, and if your going to continue on you could run the bridge with some var or tbol. The best thing to do is listen to your body. Some do better when the take a short break and others do just as well running the bridge. Remember Bro your health is the most important thing here. Good luck my friend

 

[Mr.X]

ok, then why use it all?

To keep E levels at bay and to make sure you don't have any estrogen rebound.

 

[Mr.X]

The best thing to do is listen to your body. Some do better when the take a short break and others do just as well running the bridge. Remember Bro your health is the most important thing here. Good luck my friend

right on the money bro....

 

[macrophage69alpha]

stay on, do a course of HCG/AI/SERM for 2-3 weeks of that time.

4 weeks off is just going to be unpleasant to your endocrine system

you dont want to come off for that short a time. run mid-cycle HPGA restoration.

 

[bigmouth2006]

To keep E levels at bay and to make sure you don't have any estrogen rebound.

ok, talking about from the hcg or what because 2 weeks of l-dex is pointless it takes 10-14 days for it to take full effect

 

[toxicsambo]

you dont want to come off for that short a time. run mid-cycle HPGA restoration.

Why dont ppl run HCG mid cycle and for PCT? I remember this being a discussion last year and learned most vets use it in thier cycle, and it makes perfect sense. WHy wait untill the end of a cycle to worry about your testes. If you love your nuts, show them some love mid-cycle and prevent them from turning into useless raisins, and it will help in keeping the gains you've made.

 

[Mr.X]

Why dont ppl run HCG mid cycle and for PCT? I remember this being a discussion last year and learned most vets use it in thier cycle, and it makes perfect sense. WHy wait untill the end of a cycle to worry about your testes. If you love your nuts, show them some love mid-cycle and prevent them from turning into useless raisins, and it will help in keeping the gains you've made.

this is a good post on PCT and HCG
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376177

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Why dont ppl run HCG mid cycle and for PCT? I remember this being a discussion last year and learned most vets use it in thier cycle, and it makes perfect sense. WHy wait untill the end of a cycle to worry about your testes. If you love your nuts, show them some love mid-cycle and prevent them from turning into useless raisins, and it will help in keeping the gains you've made.

people that know.. do.

 

[toxicsambo]

people that know.. do.

MR.X, thanks or that repost. This frikken paragraph should be printed and taped on everyones mirror.

"HCG During Cycle:

HCG in combination with Nolvadex can and should be used during prolonged (12+/wks) and high dosage (1,000+mgs/wk) cycles. In this case, 500-1,000 IUs HCG ED in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for 7-10 days consecutively is administered mid cycle or intermittently (every 6-8 weeks) during the cycle.

Maintaining testicular volume during cycle does in fact improve recovery when compared to atrophied testes when beginning PCT. This solution addresses both testicular atrophy and prevention of Leydig cell desensitization (discussed next) associated with HCG usage."

Since almost everyone does at least a gram of gear per week, between 8-12 weeks, This should be set in stone and it's just as important as the cycle itself. You save your gains and your testes. And what does it cost? An extra 60 bucks? Worth it.

 

[Juicta]

To everybody that had a hand in this I thank you all, seems I started a bit of a conflicting discussion, for me staying on for so long is not what I really wanna do what if I stop taking the Deca in week 9 and just do the gram of Test for week 10 on Sunday instead of eod? Will that not be better, then I'll sort of have 5 weeks off and could do better and more proper pct? For me the no1 thing is my health I know very rich coming from someone shooting a gram of test a week but my doc thinks my organs are in better shape than most people my age that don't even take juice. Once again thanks boys, it always amazes me at how many knowledgeable people are here...

O by the way I'm up to 114kg's now and bodyfat just under 9 so guess who will be taking home the title this year... Fuck now its almost time for the real dry chicken and black coffee to come in, rubber and tar is what I like to call it, but this is what makes us who we are, fucking idiots and suckers for punishment and I love it!!!!!! 20 weeks seems alot but it means you only have another 20 times to train each mayor bodypart...