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mexican t4
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gunner44
New member
Wrongun said:
Then I guess you were unaware that high levels of androgens can cause the production of thyroid homones to slow considerably?
Geee...is that why a lot of folks run small amounts of T3 or T4 during their cycles to keep protein synthesis in line?
I believe that low doses of T4 and or T3 help me a lot when it comes to maintaining gains and reducing estrogenic fat buildup post cycle. It also helps a lot with my energy levels DURING a cycle!! (See the first sentence above )
I never go over 50mcg of T3 for more than 6-8 weeks withhout a 6-8 week break.
Do some research bro before you make a statement like that. T4 is surely weaker than T3, but if your goal is only to insure enough T3 in your system to function normally, then T4 is perfect. The idea is that T4 will only be converted by the body if it is in need of more T3. This has been the common medical wisdom for ages when treating thyroid problems and obesiety.
solidspine
New member
300 mcg each? That sounds way too much, It the only real problem I have with mexican gear is the labeling and everthing is in spainish
gunner44 said:
Wow ace that is somw statement
OK T4 (thyroxin) and T3 (levo-Triiodothyronine) and as you know the thyroid gland mainly produces T4 which is later converted by a deiodinase enzyme to T3. T3 is about five times more potent at
raising the Basal Metabolic Rate than T4. In a dieting situation, the body produces less deiodinase enzyme, therefore producing less T3.
Without the effects of the more potent T3 the Basal Metabolic Rate decreases. Of course, there is plenty of T4 but it’s just not potent enough to maintain the metabolism. With a lowered metabolism, less calories are burned on a daily basis and the diet ceases to work. So please as part of my learning process where T4 has a real benefit in the world of body building over that of T3.
I take it you have all the research as you did make a statemnt like that!!!
Wrongun!
gunner44 said:
P.S. let me remind me you of my original statement:
I (which means me and my personal opinion which in case you have not noticed is what these boards are all about) think T4 does not have a place in BB'ing.
The reasoning i chose to use for this opinion i have posted for your enjoyment
Wrongun!
gunner44
New member
Well, plain and simple, your opinion is ignorant and narrowminded. But that is just my opinion of your opinion and we can all have our own opinions, right?
Have you ever taken T3 or T4 ?
You can cut and paste all you want, but what I posted related to me, and I am not speculating, I am speaking from experience.
Well, not exactly, cuz I dont actually monitor my protein synthesis but I know how it effects ME personally.
Making your ststement based on the fact that T4 is 1/5 as powerfull as T3 is BS. IF T3 were the answer , then T4 and Triac would not exist.
Following your phiosophy, Primo and all other weak steroids are useless when compared to D-bol and A-bombs.
Everything has its uses. Even your post , which I am actually enjoying. Thanks for the opportunity to talk about somethig as mundane as T4.
Have you ever taken T3 or T4 ?
You can cut and paste all you want, but what I posted related to me, and I am not speculating, I am speaking from experience.
Well, not exactly, cuz I dont actually monitor my protein synthesis but I know how it effects ME personally.
Making your ststement based on the fact that T4 is 1/5 as powerfull as T3 is BS. IF T3 were the answer , then T4 and Triac would not exist.
Following your phiosophy, Primo and all other weak steroids are useless when compared to D-bol and A-bombs.
Everything has its uses. Even your post , which I am actually enjoying. Thanks for the opportunity to talk about somethig as mundane as T4.
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gunner44 yes i have used T3 on many occasions. Now at the risk of putting myself to sleep and you creating the most outrageous theories like Primo being useless comapred with Dbol i will once again and this time in block Capitols so hopefully you do see it.
My statement was I (which means me not you by the way) THINK T4 DOES NOT HAVE A PLACE IN BB'ing
The reason for this is I beleive T3 is approx 5 times more potent at raising the basal metabolic rate. If you have evidence / belief this is not true please post as i would be interested.
Now i am more than happy to be wrong here but please explain the benefits of T4 over T3 and where T4 has its own place in BB'ing over T3.
Now i await your reply as if you drop the bravado and bull shit you may actually have something interesting to say which i may learn from other than the your sad attempt at a theory above so as to try and twist something that is not there.
Wrongun!
My statement was I (which means me not you by the way) THINK T4 DOES NOT HAVE A PLACE IN BB'ing
The reason for this is I beleive T3 is approx 5 times more potent at raising the basal metabolic rate. If you have evidence / belief this is not true please post as i would be interested.
Now i am more than happy to be wrong here but please explain the benefits of T4 over T3 and where T4 has its own place in BB'ing over T3.
Now i await your reply as if you drop the bravado and bull shit you may actually have something interesting to say which i may learn from other than the your sad attempt at a theory above so as to try and twist something that is not there.
Wrongun!
gunner44 said:
P.S. for the last time i will remind you i said I think T4 does not have a place in BB'ing
T4 was not produced (nor was T3) for BB'ing and so obviously would exist
Please keep it real and factual if you want to insult. I am happy to be criticised or proved wrong as that is why we visit boards such as these to learn but do not twist what i say so as to support your side of teh debate. I hope you have the intellegence to do that yourself with facts / persoanl experience and so i may learn from it.
Wrongun!
gunner44 said:
As per posts above AGAIN hopefully you still have your glasses on and have read again rather than persist wioth your bravado crap
I would happily accept the fact if you could offer some reasoning for it. Please state the benefit of T4 over T3 and its specific use in BB'ing
I am not arguing any point for you i am keen to learn if that is the case.
Not sure how much simpler i can make this for you but i am asking as i have done politely to make a statement of why you feel T4 has a place in BB'ing. If that is it that not every BB wants to start of with T3 then i have to say not very scientific nor is it helpful.
Please drop the bravado crap and issue a good reply that i may actually learn from. I have issued MY feelings which you persist in putting down but so far the best you have come up with is that T4 has a place in BB because not everyone wants to use T3 WTF!!!
Come on many are looking at this thread as you may have something in what you say as you have challenged my thoughts that T3 is approx 5 times more potent at raising the basal metabolic rate. Again i ask If you have evidence / belief this is not true please post as i would be interested.
Now if all you have is that soem prefer to use T4 over T3 but do not really know why then fine we can all move on and put it to a differing of opinions.
You did however accuse me of my opinion being ignorant and narrowminded although i have asked countless times now please, explain to me the benefits of T4 over T3 and where T4 has its own place in BB'ing over T3.
If your answer is ''because it does and some prefer to use T4'' well that is not the most helpful, educated or useful information. I have issued my thoughts which you have challenged in a forcefull way but still i am willing to remain ''open minded'' and ask for full explanation but you persist in bravado crap.
Disapointing as i really thought you may have something scientific where i could learn and explore but if this is all because Gunner44 likes T4 and so he must be right you really have wasted my time.
P.S. please use glasses and read above prior to replying as you are asking the same questions that i have answered but not the ones being asked of you
Wrongun!
gunner44
New member
Let me point out ONE reason for which I justify using T4 .
T4 must first pass through the liver to be converted to T3. Unless you have a problem with your conversion process, then your body will be responsible for the conversion and rate of conversion to the much more powerfull T3, which by the way, is stated as being 10 TIMES more powerfull in periferial tissues than T4.
I think if I am going to mess with my thyroid function, I would rather do it indirectly through using T4 than T3.
T4 must first pass through the liver to be converted to T3. Unless you have a problem with your conversion process, then your body will be responsible for the conversion and rate of conversion to the much more powerfull T3, which by the way, is stated as being 10 TIMES more powerfull in periferial tissues than T4.
I think if I am going to mess with my thyroid function, I would rather do it indirectly through using T4 than T3.
gunner44
New member
Only very small amounts of T3 are actually produced in the thyroid gland. The bulk of T3 is produced through an enzyme conversion process in the liver.
This is why I, as well as others, may feel that T4 is somewhat safer to mess around with than T3. In theory, your body will only convert a certain amount of T4 to T3. The conversion can be effected by factors like the amount of zinc, iodine and other vitamin levels.
I would conceed that there is anegative feedback mecanisim in the hypothalamus to regulate T4 and T3 production, but since T4 levels are generally much higher as far as bound and free levels in the blood stream, one could theorize that the body will not react to high levels of T4 like it would to T3. It seems to me that the body produces a BASE hormone. ie T4 and stores it in larger quantities to be transformed to T3 by the liver as needed.
For me, I feel that taking small amounts of T4 will increase the overall T3 levels, only as needed vs. T3 which will DIRECTLY stimulate the metabolism.
One other thing to keep in mind. HIgh levels of cortisol will effect the T4 to T3 conversion process, in effect messing up the process where the result is an ineffective form of T3 called rT3, or reverse T3, which is basically useless.
It is this effect from high levels of cortisol which I think leeds to fat storage rebound post cycle, since that is the time we are SWIMMING in cortisol. It is this relationship between T4 and high cortisol levels that would make a person want to consider adding T4 and Or T3 post cycle and during cycle to compensate for a lowered production of T3 due to high levels of cortisol caused by AAS usage.
I think I am done with this for now. I dont want to continue to argue with your opinion on the worthlessness of T4 to BB's, because I think it is clear that it DOES have its place.
Here is alink worth reading. It has nothing to to with the original intent of this thread, but anyone interested in how AAS and elevated cortisol levels effect our thyroid and hence our basal metabolism should pay attention.
http://www.providentmedical.com/medfacts/08WilsonsSyndrome.pdf
This is why I, as well as others, may feel that T4 is somewhat safer to mess around with than T3. In theory, your body will only convert a certain amount of T4 to T3. The conversion can be effected by factors like the amount of zinc, iodine and other vitamin levels.
I would conceed that there is anegative feedback mecanisim in the hypothalamus to regulate T4 and T3 production, but since T4 levels are generally much higher as far as bound and free levels in the blood stream, one could theorize that the body will not react to high levels of T4 like it would to T3. It seems to me that the body produces a BASE hormone. ie T4 and stores it in larger quantities to be transformed to T3 by the liver as needed.
For me, I feel that taking small amounts of T4 will increase the overall T3 levels, only as needed vs. T3 which will DIRECTLY stimulate the metabolism.
One other thing to keep in mind. HIgh levels of cortisol will effect the T4 to T3 conversion process, in effect messing up the process where the result is an ineffective form of T3 called rT3, or reverse T3, which is basically useless.
It is this effect from high levels of cortisol which I think leeds to fat storage rebound post cycle, since that is the time we are SWIMMING in cortisol. It is this relationship between T4 and high cortisol levels that would make a person want to consider adding T4 and Or T3 post cycle and during cycle to compensate for a lowered production of T3 due to high levels of cortisol caused by AAS usage.
I think I am done with this for now. I dont want to continue to argue with your opinion on the worthlessness of T4 to BB's, because I think it is clear that it DOES have its place.
Here is alink worth reading. It has nothing to to with the original intent of this thread, but anyone interested in how AAS and elevated cortisol levels effect our thyroid and hence our basal metabolism should pay attention.
http://www.providentmedical.com/medfacts/08WilsonsSyndrome.pdf
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Triggerman2003
New member
IMO, I don't like directly messing with my thyroid...I don't use T3 or T4, mess with that shit the wrong way and you will be on it till you go buy the farm...if you know what I mean. I excercise hard on cardio in try to intensify my workouts for fat burning when the time is right...especially post cycle.
