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Mechanisms, all read!!!

Weam

New member
well, this isn't about why Clomid should be used instead of HCG as I already post a topic about this matter before

but, I'm here to talk about why Clomid shouldn't be used if your testicles are shrinked without first the treatment of HCG

Everybody thinks that the HPTA is a hormone that just directly increase the production of Testosterone but in fact it isn't a hormone the HPTA meaning hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis describes the regulation of testicular production occurs via a negative feedback loop system involving the anterior pituitary, hypothalamus, and testicles with a complicated ways I'm going to describe down here.

Read very carefully: The exact mechanism, stage 1 when the hypothalamus is elavated, it will releases pulses of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone, which will stimulates the anterior pituitary to produce and release luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)
stage 2 then, at the testicles, LH and FSH interact with their primary target tissue receptors (LH, Leydig cells; FSH, Sertoli cells) located on the respective cell membranes
stage 3 Once a hormone-receptor complex is formed, there is an adenyl cyclase-mediated increase of cyclic AMP, which produces a phosphorylation of intracellular proteins by activation of a protein kinase mechanism
in the Leydig cells this protein kinase activation leads to a mobilization of steroid precursors, in particular the activation of pregnenolone synthesis from cholesterol. Pregnenolone serves as the parent compound from which Testosterone is derived

Clomid starts from the beginning at stage one, and it works mainy by sending positive feedbacks to the hypothalamus by inhibiting Estrogen receptors at this area
but the problem can start at stage 3 where if the testicles were shrinked, the protein kinase mechanism will be de-activated and cyclic AMP will be irregulated which are responsible for making Testosterone after various processes

also Clomid alone will never be able to work against testicular shrinkage, it's very weak in this matter because it have to pass throw many processes as well and the amount of LH will not be able to return the testicles to it's natural size

The reason for why the Testicles get shrinked, during Steroids usage, the gonadotrophin(LH, FSH) will be inhibited for sure and as I mention before the LH is responsible for the leydig cells which FSH for the Sertoli cell at the testicles, while this two hormones is inhibited
the Testis will not be working very well, and while they're not working good, it's very simple to get smaller, same as with your muscles, when you stop working out and training for few months, it's very common to notice that your muscles got much smaller

while you would take HCG, it will work as an exogenous LH, after binding to the hormone receptors complex it will work very strongly by sending extensive signals to the testicles to produce Testosterone as well as the FSH which will cause the FSH receptor-hormone formation at the Sertoli cell results in the initiation of the spermatogenesis process

so after this work, it's just like starting working your muscles again, it will get bigger and bigger and returns to it's natural size

when the testicles gets bigger, the protein kinase mechanism and the AMP cycle will be activated and up-regulated
then, if Clomid is taken after the testicles had been treated and returned to it's normal size, the chemical compounds will be available for accepting LH and turning it to Testosterone

Forgive me for my Grammar, and I hope you all read it carefully and found it helpfully
 
But, don't forget that it doesn't applies to regular 8-12 weeks cycles, because there's no such huge test shrinkage from cycles that long.
Many may consider using HCG if their cycles are longer then 16 weeks and definately, if they stay on year around.
 
panerai said:
But, don't forget that it doesn't applies to regular 8-12 weeks cycles, because there's no such huge test shrinkage from cycles that long.
Many may consider using HCG if their cycles are longer then 16 weeks and definately, if they stay on year around.

is this true? will anyone experience very noticeable testicular shrinkage on short 8-10 week cycles of 30mg/dbol and 500mg/test? also, for those nards that DO shrink, do they EVER return to their normal size? after how long?
 
Damn Weam, clicking on your posts is quickly becoming mandatory. Very well put, simple (for slow heifers like me, lol) and yet not too simple that it loses anything.

Excellent post.
 
decem said:


is this true? will anyone experience very noticeable testicular shrinkage on short 8-10 week cycles of 30mg/dbol and 500mg/test? also, for those nards that DO shrink, do they EVER return to their normal size? after how long?


i'm bumping this up because i'm on exactly the same cycle, and wondering if i should the HCG.
 
WEAM, I am not understanding your rationale. If the HPTA acts in a negative feedback manner (essentially plasma androgen levels are inversely related to LH levels), then LH levels should resume more rapidly and higher when there is very little plasma androgens (and estrogens). Adding HCG will artificially elevate testosterone levels which should lower LH release.
 
Great post guys, but I have a question. I read an article that said using HCG at the end of a cycle would contribute to the already rising cortisol levels. The article said that HCG should be taken in week three or four of the cycle to help enlarge the testicles, and that should last through the end of the cycle. That way you achieve what Weam is saying, not taking clomid with the testicles shrunk, but you also don't further elevate cortisol levels. Any opinions??
 
bumpy bumpy

I am about to start soon - 500mg a week sust and 30mg dbol...

I would like to know if I am likely to have the balls of a 12 year old (i.e. the age of most of the people on this site sometimes) during that cycle....

My cycle will be 8 weeks....
 
"Everybody thinks that the HPTA is a hormone that just directly increase the production of Testosterone but in fact it isn't a hormone the HPTA meaning hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis describes the regulation of testicular production occurs via a negative feedback loop system involving the anterior pituitary, hypothalamus, and testicles with a complicated ways I'm going to describe down here. "


i didnt think that HPTA is a hormone

other then that a very informative post
 
Excelent post, I should be set with clomid alone, like I stated in another thread today my nuts don't shrink anymore on test. It's weird but it's like I'm immune to testicular athrophy. Years ago they became rasins on 400mg test a week.
 
decem said:


is this true? will anyone experience very noticeable testicular shrinkage on short 8-10 week cycles of 30mg/dbol and 500mg/test? also, for those nards that DO shrink, do they EVER return to their normal size? after how long?

Bump... still hasn't been answered :) (I'm wondering too)
 
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