Making AS legal???

[HULKSTER]

Bulldog,

The Orioles pitcher who died was NOT a common, intelligent man as you said. He was an uncommon, STUPID man. Why so? Well, common doesn't refer to millionaire professional athletes, and the word intelligence shouldn't be used to describe a fat fucking, out-of-shape moron who thought it was a good idea to overdose on epedra, without drinking any water, all the while doing windsprints in 90 degree Florida weather----while wearing NO baseball cap, thus increasing his chances of heat stroke. And remember, the coroner listed his death as heat stroke.

 

[Zyglamail]

Well, first off, I think we all agree that prohormones suck and should not be on the shelves. So why not ban them? They're not good for people, and these companies are making millions on pretty much false claims.

I'm totally with you on ephedra, it shouldn't be banned, but there should be more warnings on it, and they should educate people on the dangers of its use. While that Orioles pitcher might not have known exactly what he was doing, it's safe to assume he was a somewhat intelligent man. And if a common, somewhat intelligent man can suffer such severe consequences from a substance, something must be done about it...especially when kids can buy this stuff off the shelves.

As far as alcohol and tobacco go, I think it's hypocritical to say that they should be made illegal while you also say that AAS should be made legal. Both have potentially harmful side effects, both have benefits. If used responsibly there is no problem with any of those substances. The one thing that seperates them is education...

Granted prohormones do suck but that really isnt the point, the point is freedom and our right to do with our bodeis as we see fit as long as we are not hurting others. If the gov was actually concerned about us, they would regulate suppliments and make sure that what was claimed to be in them was actually what was in them, instead they spend money locking AAS users up.

As for alcohol/tabacoo and AAS legalization issue, I never said they should be made legal, but they shouldnt be crminalized either, perhaps require classes or something and a certification for a license to use them. However, how many deaths each year arise from moderate, intelligent AAS use? Now, how many people die from alcohol and tabacoo? Just a few months ago I held my aunts hand while she died from lung cancer and what I find hipocritical is that our government says its ok to kill yourself by smoking or drinking yourself to death but you cant risk your health with AAS, now that is hipocritical if I have ever seen it. Not only that but second hand smoke and smoking/drinking is also dangerous to those around you, especially unborn children but once again our government says its ok, all because they get buco taxes and payoffs from the tabaco and alcohol companies.

Suffice it to say that saying we cant do something because it is illegal has proven since the dawn of time that it DOES NOT WORK. Look at prohibition. The only way to truely save people from themselves is to educate them. In our governments witch hunt they will soon have us all locked in padded cells to SAVE us...even though they have proven time and time again they are less competent than many of the people they have sworn to serve.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Bulldog,

The Orioles pitcher who died was NOT a common, intelligent man as you said. He was an uncommon, STUPID man. Why so? Well, common doesn't refer to millionaire professional athletes, and the word intelligence shouldn't be used to describe a fat fucking, out-of-shape moron who thought it was a good idea to overdose on epedra, without drinking any water, all the while doing windsprints in 90 degree Florida weather----while wearing NO baseball cap, thus increasing his chances of heat stroke. And remember, the coroner listed his death as heat stroke.

I'm not saying that ephedra killed him, and I don't know the whole story, I only know what i see on the news. They said he was using it exactly as directed, not overdosing. And I don't know where you heard about him not drinking any water, but I assumed that the team trainers would take care of things like that.

I'm just saying that if ephedra can play a role in the death of a man (supervised by trainers), it should be more strictly regulated...especially since kids can get a hold of this stuff easily and legally.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Bulldog thats my point of starting this post. What the hell can we do about this. Im not all for 100% legalization becasue those who are going to abuse them will have easier acess to them but if you think these kind of people arent using them now your fooling yourself bro. I think there is a happy medium that can be achieved here to protect the public yet not restrict us. I dont think alcohol and tobacco should be made illegal. Thats just taking another right away from us. We are supposed to be free people until our freedom and personal good infringes on another person.


The government isnt supposed to be a parent figure telling us whats right and wrong and whats safe and not thru limiting what we can and cannot do to OURSELVES. The government is based on the functionality of society and the preservtion of rights and safety from others. Its to bad the gov doesnt run by these guidlines and the almighty dollar reigns. Im not bashing the gov I damn well love America and how it runs now but I think there is room for improvement. As time goes on things need to change for the better thats all im trying to get across.

That's the thing...in all honesty, WE control the government. There is NO argument against that. If there are enough people that want something done, it gets done. If enough people call their representatives saying they want something done, it gets done...or they lose their jobs cuz people won't vote for them. If you seriously want to get something done, check out a website about lobbying. they're full of information on how to get things done through government systems. If you want I can find something for you, I did a small project on things like this in a class I took last semester about the current health care system in the US.

 

[Zyglamail]

That's the thing...in all honesty, WE control the government. There is NO argument against that. If there are enough people that want something done, it gets done. If enough people call their representatives saying they want something done, it gets done...or they lose their jobs cuz people won't vote for them. If you seriously want to get something done, check out a website about lobbying. they're full of information on how to get things done through government systems. If you want I can find something for you, I did a small project on things like this in a class I took last semester about the current health care system in the US.

Thats the clincher, it takes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people to get things CHANGED, not done. How many people lobbied to get AAS scheduled? My guess is very few yet it happened anyway. Just another hipocritical methodology whereby the gov can change what they want and it takes half the population to change something no one cared about anyways. Its selective governing whereby the government exercises their power and targets things that most people dont care about so there is no opposition, it gives them something to do and help warrant their existance. It would be nearly impossible to get anough people together to lobby to get AAS decriminalized because simply put most people dont use AAS and therefor dont care. They know the half truths portrayed by the media and since they do not have any interest in the topic they are not open to being educated and hence will never waste their time decriminalizing them.

So, while on the surface it would appear we the people have the power, how come we the people werent asked to vote on these issues? Lets face it, we dont have shit for power all we can do is appoint people to office and then they pretty much have a free reign to do as they please, then, only after the fact do we have any recourse. its fucking bass ackwards is what it is. These people should be representing our interests, but instead they go on wich hunts under the guise of helping us.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Thats the clincher, it takes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people to get things CHANGED, not done. How many people lobbied to get AAS scheduled? My guess is very few yet it happened anyway. Just another hipocritical methodology whereby the gov can change what they want and it takes half the population to change something no one cared about anyways. Its selective governing whereby the government exercises their power and targets things that most people dont care about so there is no opposition, it gives them something to do and help warrant their existance. It would be nearly impossible to get anough people together to lobby to get AAS decriminalized because simply put most people dont use AAS and therefor dont care. They know the half truths portrayed by the media and since they do not have any interest in the topic they are not open to being educated and hence will never waste their time decriminalizing them.

So, while on the surface it would appear we the people have the power, how come we the people werent asked to vote on these issues? Lets face it, we dont have shit for power all we can do is appoint people to office and then they pretty much have a free reign to do as they please, then, only after the fact do we have any recourse. its fucking bass ackwards is what it is. These people should be representing our interests, but instead they go on wich hunts under the guise of helping us.

But if most people don't give a rats ass, then why should they change it? That's the point, most people probably want steroids to be kept illegal. If more people wanted them to be decriminalized, it would happen. I'm not saying you should start lobbying now, but how about doing something to get the word out and try to change the PEOPLE'S opinion on AAS. If you can educate people on the false portayal of AAS in the media, and the potential benefits, you can change public opinion, and then change law.

Look at what is going on with tobacco...people are getting to word out about how bad cigarettes are (thetruth.com) and people are calling their representatives, and taxes are being increased on cigarettes, making more money for the government and making it less convenient for smokers to smoke.

Also, most public places are going smoke free, for example, Massachusetts just went smoke free in ALL public places as of the beginning of May. This makes things even less convenient for smokers. So while laws may not be changed, things are being done to end smoking.

You can do the same thing with steroids, if you believe you can...The question is, do you think you can change public opinion? And do you think if people knew the truth, would they care enough to do something about it?

 

[Zyglamail]

You can do the same thing with steroids, if you believe you can...The question is, do you think you can change public opinion? And do you think if people knew the truth, would they care enough to do something about it?

Actually if im not mistaken much of the money to educate people on smoking is paid for by the tabaco companies as part of their fine. Additionally how long has this taken to happen? 100 years?

My point is if people were asked to actually take part and show up to vote to determine weather AAS use would be a criminal offense, how many people would show up to make it a criminal offense? My guess would be that many who were simply not interested wouldnt show up at all and those that were interested, the majority of them would vote to decriminalize it. Look at the rate of problems associated with alcohol, tabaco, or even plastic surgery/liposuction etc. These all cary inherent dangers however only AAS use is a criminal offense and of all these items it probably has the least danger. If that is the case then why was so much governmental energy expended it not only making its use a criminal offense but spending millions a year persueing people and incarcerating them into our allready overflowing legal system?

I put AAS use on the same par as I do physical augmentation such as peircing, plastic surgery(ie nose jobs, boob jobs etc), liposction, and yes even tabacco and alcohol use. The main difference between the items above however is that alcohol and tabacco use do not only affect the user but those around them, ie second hand smoke and drunk driving for example.

The priorities and the way things are done dont necessarily favor the majority, they are against the minority. It seems that the main thing the government accomplishes are things that it can do to lack of opposition. There is a big difference between doing what the majority actually wants and what the minority doesnt want. Time and time again rules have been put in place to make things harder and harder for the average citizen to accomplish anything, slowly over the years the power has been taken from the people and it continues as we speak.

 

[Bulldog_10]

But that's the point, at some point they were made illegal because they were not seen as safe. You can't just whine about it if you want it changed...you have to do something about it. The law isn't going to change itself, you need to get off your ass, and get something together. And I don't mean YOU in particular, I'm not saying YOU should do something, I'm just talking in general.

You have to get enough people together who DO want changes to be made, if you can't do that...then why SHOULD they change the law? If most of the people are happy with it, why do anything?

 

[Zyglamail]

But that's the point, at some point they were made illegal because they were not seen as safe.

This is where I apparently am not getting my point accross. They were not just made prescription only but they actually criminalized their use. Additionally they were not made illegal JUST because they were deemed unsafe because as I have already stated alcohol, tabacco, plastic surgery etc has all been proven to have risks. Hell you cant get much more documented than the dangers of smoking yet they continue to be legal. The key here is that they were crimanlized not JUST because they were deemed unsafe but because they were deemed unsafe AND there was no opposition among the law makers. There was no opposition because there was no opne lobbying and paying them big bucks like alcohol and tabacco and this is key. Government should be about protecting people, but they only offer the proection when they are not being paid off.

You have to get enough people together who DO want changes to be made, if you can't do that...then why SHOULD they change the law? If most of the people are happy with it, why do anything?.

Once again if not enough people care about it, why did it consume so many resources in the first place? Why should we have to follow the gov around and try and fix things AFTER the fact, why cant they get the people involved to begin with? You asking why they should change the law if there isnt enough interest to change it and I am saying take a step even farther back in the law making process and am asking why make the law in the first place if there is no interest!

 

[Bulldog_10]

This is where I apparently am not getting my point accross. They were not just made prescription only but they actually criminalized their use. Additionally they were not made illegal JUST because they were deemed unsafe because as I have already stated alcohol, tabacco, plastic surgery etc has all been proven to have risks. Hell you cant get much more documented than the dangers of smoking yet they continue to be legal. The key here is that they were crimanlized not JUST because they were deemed unsafe but because they were deemed unsafe AND there was no opposition among the law makers. There was no opposition because there was no opne lobbying and paying them big bucks like alcohol and tabacco and this is key. Government should be about protecting people, but they only offer the proection when they are not being paid off.

Once again if not enough people care about it, why did it consume so many resources in the first place? Why should we have to follow the gov around and try and fix things AFTER the fact, why cant they get the people involved to begin with? You asking why they should change the law if there isnt enough interest to change it and I am saying take a step even farther back in the law making process and am asking why make the law in the first place if there is no interest!

Well, it was probably made a law back when not much was known about AAS. And there is still alot that we don't know, let's just face the facts...there hasn't been enough research done on AAS on healthy men to warrant them being decriminalized.

AAS were invented to help sick people, not to be used by people without serious complications...alcohol and tobacco were made for everyone to get fucked up. I think the fact that steroids are medicine and alcohol and tobacco are recreational substances is the reason why this all started in the first place.

If you decriminalize steroids, it is just one more thing to add to the list of things that are potentially harmful, and legal. If AAS were made legal I'm sure there would be a few morons in the first year that seriously fucked themselves up, and then what? Then even more people would jump on the anti-steroid bandwagon and the law would be changed back...and then more strictly enforced.

Please, don't get me wrong...I don't like to see people get into deep shit for steroids...I believe they CAN be used safely. But I would not push for them to be decriminalized.