"Low HDL Levels"

[Mr Beef]

My HDL levels are at 15 (optimal 75) from a 9 week cycle of
EQ 400 front, 200/ew, Winny 50/ed,Test Cyp 200 front,100/ew...
Then into a 10 week cycle of Deca 600 front,300/ew,Tren 40/ed
Test enanthate 375/ew.....Have been off 2 weeks, How long will it take for my levels to normalize? How can I speed up the process? Thank you in advance for all helpful advice.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Start running in some Niacin and Essential Fatty acids(omegs 3's and 6's).A cardio regimen will also go a long way toward raising HDL as well as lowering LDL.

 

[TheRide]

Been there...

Last summer I was down to 9!!!!! I attribute it to the 8 weeks of Winny I did...

I started taking Omega-3, eating a TON of salmon, and hitting the cardio hard - burning 1500-2000 cal/week....

After about 6 weeks I was up to 37 and my HDL was back to normal about 3 months later...

Good Luck!

 

[40butpumpin]

Garlic, garlic, garlic. Garlic will do exactly what HDL does for you in protecting you from the oxidation of LDL cholesterol. For low HDL, Garlic's critical.

If you use Niacin you need a lot of it to have an impact on your CV system so you're better off using the "no flush" form.

 

[Miracle Man]

Garlic, garlic, garlic. Garlic will do exactly what HDL does for you in protecting you from the oxidation of LDL cholesterol. For low HDL, Garlic's critical.

If you use Niacin you need a lot of it to have an impact on your CV system so you're better off using the "no flush" form.

If you also add some tomato sauce and some non-fat cheese, you'll smell like a pizza at the gym after a cardio workout. lol....

 

[AustinTX]

...If you use Niacin you need a lot of it to have an impact on your CV system so you're better off using the "no flush" form.

I belive one of the docs over at steroidology posted a study that the flush free was harder on your liver. I've switched to plain old 500mg tabs.

 

[40butpumpin]

I belive one of the docs over at steroidology posted a study that the flush free was harder on your liver. I've switched to plain old 500mg tabs.

I just went over to Steroidology and saw the thread(s) that mention such a study (by hhajdo) but no thread with the study itself. Now that's one study I'd like to see.

 

[Fonz]

I just went over to Steroidology and saw the thread(s) that mention such a study (by hhajdo) but no thread with the study itself. Now that's one study I'd like to see.

Same here. Its the Hexa- version of niacin(A B-Vitamin).

Actually called "inositol hexa-nicotinate".

I have serious doubts as to the claim that its bad for your liver.

I just don't see how.

Fonz

 

[hhajdo]

I never made any claims about a certain type of niacin being more or less liver toxic....

I just posted some general info about niacin & liver toxicity in this thread:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=333

 

[AustinTX]

Same here. Its the Hexa- version of niacin(A B-Vitamin).

Actually called "inositol hexa-nicotinate".

I have serious doubts as to the claim that its bad for your liver.

I just don't see how.

Fonz

Well, I can't find the thread either. I see a ref on another thread that StoneCold and I remembered reading it, perhaps it was deleted or search isn't up to snuff.... I don't mind the regular niacin, I kind of like the flush sometimes

My doc does monitor my liver values, but I don't seem to find anything right now pointing at flush free being worse than regular niacin.

I did find the stuff below from
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Health/Research/niacin.htm
"
Confusingly, niacin has several different chemical structures, which also have different names. One of the forms prescribed by doctors is nicotinic acid. A second form is called niacinamide—also known as nicotinamide. And there’s yet a third form—different from the other two—called inositol hexaniacinate
...
This is one treatment, however, for which knowledgeable medical supervision is a top priority. In the large doses needed to lower cholesterol—1,500 to 3,000 milligrams a day—niacin can cause liver problems. In fact, problems can start with doses as low as 500 milligrams, although some effects might not show up for years.
...
Taking niacin in addition to certain cholesterol-lowering drugs (“statin” drugs) increases risk of liver damage. High doses can cause drops in blood pressure and can raise blood sugar in people with diabetes. May cause flushing and allergic reactions.
"

 

[DTOX]

Daily cardio 30-45 min a day (personally I'm in favor of 30 min of high-pulse-range cardio)

One alcoholic drink per day. Not more, not less, and everyday.

Lots of EFAs.

 

[40butpumpin]

hhajdo, my apologies because my post wasn't worded carefully enough bro. Unfortunately, I made it sound like you made such claims. I saw a post by a user on the following thread:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=3585&highlight=niacin

and just made a statment based on that. My intention was definitely not to put you on the spot bro, or put words in your mouth.

For the record I've taken up to 5grams of No-Flush for extended periods of time with no problem whatsoever with my liver values. And yes, I've had them checked.

 

[hhajdo]

LOL, it's OK bro...


Some flush free/time released preparations do seem to cause hepatic toxicity more frequently than unmodified preparations, but that doesn't seem to be the case with inositol hexanicotinate...


Am J Med 1992 Jan;92(1):77-81 Related Articles, Links


Hepatic toxicity of unmodified and time-release preparations of niacin.

Rader JI, Calvert RJ, Hathcock JN.

Division of Nutrition, Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC 20204.

Niacin (nicotinic acid) is used frequently in the treatment of hypercholesteremia. It is available in both unmodified and time-release preparations. The latter were developed in attempts to minimize the skin-flushing reaction that affects virtually all users and may limit acceptance. Adverse effects on the liver from both unmodified and time-release preparations have been recognized for many years. We reviewed the literature on the hepatic toxicity of both types of niacin preparations. Adverse reactions in six patients resulted from the exclusive use of unmodified niacin and in two patients from the exclusive use of time-release preparations. In 10 additional patients, adverse reactions developed after an abrupt change from unmodified to time-release preparations. Many of these patients were ingesting time-release niacin at doses well above the usual therapeutic doses currently recommended. Signs of liver toxicity developed in less than 7 days in four of these 10 patients. In doses that achieve equivalent reductions in serum lipids, hepatic toxicity occurred more frequently with time-release preparations than with unmodified preparations. An awareness of toxicity associated with ingestion of high doses of time-release niacin preparations is important because of their widespread availability and the potential for self-prescribed, unmonitored use.


..."Vitamin B3 (as nicotinamide) may be toxic in the range 3-6gm/d85. Niacin, as nicotinic acid, is generally considered less toxic40, but, still, in some individuals large doses of niacin have caused abnormal liver behaviour. Also niacin can cause an uncomfortable, although, as far as we know, harmless and temporary skin flushing. Taken as inositol hexanicotinate, which is generally regarded as non-toxic, unlike some other slow-release formulations73, removes this problem..."

 

[40butpumpin]

One alcoholic drink per day. Not more, not less, and everyday.

Na, that'll dehydrate you. You're better off with simple red grape juice. "It isn't the alcohol in the wine that provides a health benefit but the anti-oxidants, the red wine polyphenols, anthrocyanidins and resveratrol." (from: http://www.advance-health.com/redwine.html)

btw, resveratrol can be obtained from BAC among other places.

 

[Fonz]

Well, niacin IS a B-Vitamin...and these are FAT soluble. So some preparations could be toxic if taken in large doses. They would have to be large though.
Same thing goes for all fat-soluble substances though...as they are the only ones that can enter cells. Even ALA is toxic b/c it is fat soluble(Around 30g for a 180lbs individual or thereabouts).

Fonz

 

[40butpumpin]

Well, niacin IS a B-Vitamin...and these are FAT soluble. So some preparations could be toxic if taken in large doses. They would have to be large though.
Same thing goes for all fat-soluble substances though...as they are the only ones that can enter cells. Even ALA is toxic b/c it is fat soluble(Around 30g for a 180lbs individual or thereabouts).

Fonz

Fonz B's are fat soluble? I thought A, D, E, K and a certain form of C (ascorbyl palmitate) were fat soluble, however, B's were not. Are you sure bro?

 

[hhajdo]

Fonz B's are fat soluble? I thought A, D, E, K and a certain form of C (ascorbyl palmitate) were fat soluble, however, B's were not. Are you sure bro?

I think B's are water soluble.

 

[Fonz]

Fonz B's are fat soluble? I thought A, D, E, K and a certain form of C (ascorbyl palmitate) were fat soluble, however, B's were not. Are you sure bro?

No, they aren't(I'm an idiot today...lol).

Vitamin C is water soluble btw. Vit. E is fat soluble.

ALA is different. It is both fat and water soluble. i.e. Its a phospholipid.

Hence why there are 2 kinds of anti-oxidants: Fat and Water soluble. Vitamin E is fat Soluble while Vit. C is water soluble.
ALA is both.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

I think B's are water soluble.

I think I'm just getting dumber and dumber today....lol

B-Vit fat soluble? LOL I must have been in dreamland.

Fonz

 

[40butpumpin]

Not a problem bro......but there is both water and fat soluble C (ascorbyl palmitate). hehe Just a bad day bro.

 

[Fonz]

Not a problem bro......but there is both water and fat soluble C also (ascorbyl palmitate).

Really? Damn...I guess you do learn a new thing every day.

Most of my info of Vit.C comes from the writings of Linus Pauling(The premier World Expert on Vit.C), and in his writings there was no mention of a fat soluble Vit.C. He wrote his papers long ago mind you.

Fonz

 

[DTOX]

I love it when people ask for advice and then argue when I give it to them...

Anyhoo, check these:

http://www.lipidsonline.org/slides/slide01.cfm?q=alcohol&dpg=7

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...9&date=20030109&query=alcohol+health+benefits

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/05-11.pdf

http://depts.washington.edu/adai/lib/bibs/ge_130.htm

http://healthresearch.lbl.gov/alcohol.html

I'm sure I can post a 100 abstracts, but hopefully this will put this to rest.

Na, that'll dehydrate you. You're better off with simple red grape juice. "It isn't the alcohol in the wine that provides a health benefit but the anti-oxidants, the red wine polyphenols, anthrocyanidins and resveratrol." (from: http://www.advance-health.com/redwine.html)

btw, resveratrol can be obtained from BAC among other places.

 

[40butpumpin]

Really? Damn...I guess you do learn a new thing every day.

Most of my info of Vit.C comes from the writings of Linus Pauling(The premier World Expert on Vit.C), and in his writings there was no mention of a fat soluble Vit.C. He wrote his papers long ago mind you.

Fonz

Linus Pauling's the man. Vitamin C combined with L-Lysine were his recommendations for heart disease. Winner of 2 Nobel Prizes for those that don't know. They don't hand those things out for nuttin I'll tell ya. hehe

 

[40butpumpin]

I love it when people ask for advice and then argue when I give it to them...

Anyhoo, check these:

http://www.lipidsonline.org/slides/slide01.cfm?q=alcohol&dpg=7

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...9&date=20030109&query=alcohol+health+benefits

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/05-11.pdf

http://depts.washington.edu/adai/lib/bibs/ge_130.htm

http://healthresearch.lbl.gov/alcohol.html

I'm sure I can post a 100 abstracts, but hopefully this will put this to rest.

Very interesting, and I am gonna let it rest. lol