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Liver Values Are Up and..
- Thread starter BONZ^
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S
Stew Meat
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What are your liver values?
I wouldn't drop the oxandralone. In fact, it may actually improve your liver function. Oxandralone is used to treat liver damage from alcohol... The oxandralone should help with any damage you've had to your liver from AAS use.
-Stew
I wouldn't drop the oxandralone. In fact, it may actually improve your liver function. Oxandralone is used to treat liver damage from alcohol... The oxandralone should help with any damage you've had to your liver from AAS use.
-Stew
Get some tyler liver detox. i would take atleast 3 or 4 a day.
http://www.anabolicfitness.net/Merc...e_Code=AFS&Product_Code=TLDF&Category_Code=HS
it will bring your values down.
http://www.anabolicfitness.net/Merc...e_Code=AFS&Product_Code=TLDF&Category_Code=HS
it will bring your values down.
i am with you Peter8581
40 mgr Ox/day is nothing. I managed to do 120 mgr/day and just by taking 2 liver detoxifiers (L-reduced Glutathion) they went down to almost normal levels in ONE WEEK.
So get the even better Tyler's (Calcium D-Glucarate) and take 2 or more if you must. Continue your cycle and you will be surprised by the result. And please THROW AWAY the milk tistle.
40 mgr Ox/day is nothing. I managed to do 120 mgr/day and just by taking 2 liver detoxifiers (L-reduced Glutathion) they went down to almost normal levels in ONE WEEK.
So get the even better Tyler's (Calcium D-Glucarate) and take 2 or more if you must. Continue your cycle and you will be surprised by the result. And please THROW AWAY the milk tistle.
strengthmonster
New member
It depends what value is high and how long it has been high for. 2 weeks will not make a great deal of difference anyway so you may as well finish the course but get it checked again in 8 weeks. My alanine transimunase reading was quite high after my last cycle so I'm having a little time off (injured at the moment anyway) then my next course I am using no 17AAs or orals whatsoever just to give it a break for a while. The liver is excellent at healing itself but it needs time so take it easy in future. Like everyone said plenty of water and liver detoxifiers will help.
S
Stew Meat
Guest
BigWh1tey said:
There has NEVER been any published documentation on adverse affects of oxandralone on liver.
However, dossages of 80mg per day have been shown to improve liver function.
-Stew
BigWh1tey
New member
Last edited:
BigWh1tey
New member
http://www.medibolics.com/oxandrin2.htm
Anadrol Update - July, 1999
Anadrol has been on the market for over one and one half years now, and we have been surprised that we have not had even one report of elevated liver enzymes from HIV(+) men who call our hotline. We have had males who have had some side effects, including primarily water retention and acne, but we have also had males who have had no problems, only glowing praise that Anadrol was the only steroid that helped them gain weight after severe weight loss, and it was the only steroid besides testosterone that improved their libido and energy. (August, 1999: We now have one report of a negative effect on the liver that appears to have been caused by an interaction with specific AIDS medications. To see the details, go to the article on Oxandrin.)
Doses
Reported doses used have varied from 25 mg per day to 150 mg per day, and as with almost all drugs, side effects are dose related, so a lower dose has less potential for side effects. While the most commonly prescribed dosage is 100 mg per day, Anadrol is a powerful anabolic steroid and a 25 mg daily dose will still elicit a significant effect on muscle growth while having much less potential to cause problems than higher doses, so if you choose to employ Anadrol, work with your doctor to find the lowest dose that gets the desired effect. As with any oral steroid, dividing the daily dose and taking it several times per day will produce the best overall effect with less chance of side effects. Anadrol comes in 50 mg tablets and they are scored so they can be split in two, but some people split them in fourths and take as little as 1/4 tablet twice per day.
Comparison To Oxandrin
In comparison, while we haven't had a lot of males report side effects with the standard 20 mg daily dose of Oxandrin, the other oral steroid that is commonly used in HIV, we have had a few reports of water retention, irritability and acne. Perhaps more important, we have had many reports from HIV(+) people and doctors that Oxandrin can cause elevations of SGOT and SGPT, which may indicate liver problems.
Data from a multi-site dose-ranging study of Oxandrin presented by Dr. Carl Grunfeld at the Geneva AIDS Conference stated that Oxandrin caused elevations of SGOT and SGPT when used in 40 and 80 mg doses. It has been suggested that Oxandrin may interact with the 3A4 P450 enzyme system that metabolizes protease inhibitors while this does not appear to be the case with Anadrol.(1) In comparison, Anadrol did not cause elevations of these enzymes in the Hengge study at a daily dose of 150 mg.(2) It may be that Oxandrin has more potential for liver toxicity than Anadrol when a person is using protease inhibitors.
The Grunfeld study looked at 40 and 80 mg doses of Oxandrin because the standard 20 mg dose appears to be too low to be effective for some HIV(+) men. While some studies have shown good muscle growth with 20 mg per day, this low dose was shown in a study by Salvato to produce little if any muscle muscle growth(1), and we wonder if at comparable milligram doses Anadrol may be a stronger anabolic agent.
Oxandrin produces more muscle growth when it is used in combination with testosterone, and Oxandrin used without testosterone can lower libido, while Anadrol is more androgenic and does not appear to require testosterone for anabolic effects and healthy libido. We suggest that for people who are more prone to side effects, it might be better to use Anadrol alone rather than with testosterone as both are strong androgens so there is more potential for androgenic side effects when they are combined.
References:
1. Thacker DL, et al. Metabolism of an anabolic androgenic steroid, oxymetholone by human cytrochrome p450s. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics. 1999;65(2): Abstract number 75.
2. Hengge, UR, et al. Oxymetholone promotes weight gain in patients with advanced human immunodeficiency virus infection. Brit J Nutr (1996) 75:129-138.
3. Salvato, P, et al. Conference on Nutrition and HIV Infection Cannes, France (1997) April 23-24; Abstract No. 0-003.
Anadrol Update - July, 1999
Anadrol has been on the market for over one and one half years now, and we have been surprised that we have not had even one report of elevated liver enzymes from HIV(+) men who call our hotline. We have had males who have had some side effects, including primarily water retention and acne, but we have also had males who have had no problems, only glowing praise that Anadrol was the only steroid that helped them gain weight after severe weight loss, and it was the only steroid besides testosterone that improved their libido and energy. (August, 1999: We now have one report of a negative effect on the liver that appears to have been caused by an interaction with specific AIDS medications. To see the details, go to the article on Oxandrin.)
Doses
Reported doses used have varied from 25 mg per day to 150 mg per day, and as with almost all drugs, side effects are dose related, so a lower dose has less potential for side effects. While the most commonly prescribed dosage is 100 mg per day, Anadrol is a powerful anabolic steroid and a 25 mg daily dose will still elicit a significant effect on muscle growth while having much less potential to cause problems than higher doses, so if you choose to employ Anadrol, work with your doctor to find the lowest dose that gets the desired effect. As with any oral steroid, dividing the daily dose and taking it several times per day will produce the best overall effect with less chance of side effects. Anadrol comes in 50 mg tablets and they are scored so they can be split in two, but some people split them in fourths and take as little as 1/4 tablet twice per day.
Comparison To Oxandrin
In comparison, while we haven't had a lot of males report side effects with the standard 20 mg daily dose of Oxandrin, the other oral steroid that is commonly used in HIV, we have had a few reports of water retention, irritability and acne. Perhaps more important, we have had many reports from HIV(+) people and doctors that Oxandrin can cause elevations of SGOT and SGPT, which may indicate liver problems.
Data from a multi-site dose-ranging study of Oxandrin presented by Dr. Carl Grunfeld at the Geneva AIDS Conference stated that Oxandrin caused elevations of SGOT and SGPT when used in 40 and 80 mg doses. It has been suggested that Oxandrin may interact with the 3A4 P450 enzyme system that metabolizes protease inhibitors while this does not appear to be the case with Anadrol.(1) In comparison, Anadrol did not cause elevations of these enzymes in the Hengge study at a daily dose of 150 mg.(2) It may be that Oxandrin has more potential for liver toxicity than Anadrol when a person is using protease inhibitors.
The Grunfeld study looked at 40 and 80 mg doses of Oxandrin because the standard 20 mg dose appears to be too low to be effective for some HIV(+) men. While some studies have shown good muscle growth with 20 mg per day, this low dose was shown in a study by Salvato to produce little if any muscle muscle growth(1), and we wonder if at comparable milligram doses Anadrol may be a stronger anabolic agent.
Oxandrin produces more muscle growth when it is used in combination with testosterone, and Oxandrin used without testosterone can lower libido, while Anadrol is more androgenic and does not appear to require testosterone for anabolic effects and healthy libido. We suggest that for people who are more prone to side effects, it might be better to use Anadrol alone rather than with testosterone as both are strong androgens so there is more potential for androgenic side effects when they are combined.
References:
1. Thacker DL, et al. Metabolism of an anabolic androgenic steroid, oxymetholone by human cytrochrome p450s. Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics. 1999;65(2): Abstract number 75.
2. Hengge, UR, et al. Oxymetholone promotes weight gain in patients with advanced human immunodeficiency virus infection. Brit J Nutr (1996) 75:129-138.
3. Salvato, P, et al. Conference on Nutrition and HIV Infection Cannes, France (1997) April 23-24; Abstract No. 0-003.
As I PREVIOUSLY stated, NOTHING has ever been published that linked oxandralone to liver toxicity/damage.
The study that you posted above was NOT published due to its being fabricated by a Dr. Carl Grunfield. He gave his speech at the Geneva Conferance back in 1989 or so...
Nice find, but the study was only a speech and fabricated to give him some attention at the conference.
Here's you a few REAL studies:
Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1971 Mar;18(3):586-92
Protection by oxandrolone against chronic digitoxin or indomethacin intoxication.
J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
Treatment with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity.
Am J Gastroenterol 1991 Sep;86(9):1200-8
A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Effects on liver function.
Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT.
Department of Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, Georgia.
The present studies were designed to provide careful measures of effects of oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, intravenous nutritional supplementation, and the combination of these two treatments on liver functions, metabolic balances, nitrogen metabolism, and nutritional status in patients with moderate to severe alcoholic hepatitis. Of 43 patients originally recruited, 39 (19 men, 20 women) with typical clinical and laboratory features of alcoholic hepatitis (11 Child's-Pugh class B; 28 class C) were admitted to a metabolic unit and completed a 35-day three-phase protocol. Phase I was a 10-day baseline period of observation, during which routine and special quantitative tests of liver function (galactose and antipyrine metabolism), a 7-day elemental balance study, and a 15N, 13C-leucine metabolism study were done. Phase II was a 21-day treatment period during which patients were randomly assigned to receive one of four regimens: 1) standard therapy, consisting of abstinence, a balanced, nutritionally adequate diet, and multivitamins; 2) oxandrolone (20 mg orally four times a day 80 MG PER DAY!) plus standard therapy; 3) nutritional supplementation, consisting of 2 L daily of 3.5% crystalline amino acids (in 5% dextrose), given by peripheral vein; or 4) a combination of oxandrolone and nutritional supplementation, along with standard therapy. Metabolic balances were repeated during phase II. Phase III was 2 or 3 days posttreatment, during which special studies of liver functions and volumes and leucine metabolism were repeated. All patients who completed phase I of study and were randomly allocated to one of the four treatment groups completed the subsequent two phases. Overall, with time, patients showed highly significant improvements in most clinical and laboratory features. For most standard laboratory tests improvements were more marked in patients treated with nutritional supplementation and/or oxandrolone than in those given standard therapy alone. Liver volumes fell in all treatment groups. We conclude that the addition of oxandralone leads to more rapid improvement in the laboratory parameters measured.
Treatment of alcoholic hepatitis.
Am J Gastroenterol. 1989 Oct;84(10):1217-21.
N Engl J Med 1984 Dec 6;311(23):1464-70 Related Articles, Books
Short-term and long-term survival in patients with alcoholic hepatitis treated with oxandrolone and prednisolone.
Mendenhall CL, Anderson S, Garcia-Pont P, Goldberg S, Kiernan T, Seeff LB, Sorrell M, Tamburro C, Weesner R, Zetterman R, et al.
A cooperative study was conducted to determine the efficacy of 30 days of treatment with either a glucocorticosteroid (prednisolone) or an anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) in moderate or severe alcoholic hepatitis. One hundred thirty-two patients with moderate disease and 131 with severe disease were randomly assigned to one of three treatments: prednisolone, oxandrolone, or placebo. During the 30 days, mortality in the groups receiving steroid therapy was not significantly different from mortality in the placebo group. Thirteen per cent of the moderately ill patients and 29 per cent of the severely ill patients died. Although neither steroid improved short-term survival, oxandrolone therapy was associated with a beneficial effect on long-term survival. This was especially true in patients with moderate disease: among those who survived for one or two months after the start of treatment the conditional six-month death rate was 3.5 per cent after oxandrolone and 19 to 20 per cent after placebo (P = 0.02). No consistent long-term effect was associated with prednisolone therapy.
If you would like me to direct you toward more PUBLISHED studies on oxandralone, just let me know.
-Stew
The study that you posted above was NOT published due to its being fabricated by a Dr. Carl Grunfield. He gave his speech at the Geneva Conferance back in 1989 or so...
Nice find, but the study was only a speech and fabricated to give him some attention at the conference.
Here's you a few REAL studies:
Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1971 Mar;18(3):586-92
Protection by oxandrolone against chronic digitoxin or indomethacin intoxication.
J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
Treatment with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity.
Am J Gastroenterol 1991 Sep;86(9):1200-8
A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Effects on liver function.
Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT.
Department of Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, Georgia.
The present studies were designed to provide careful measures of effects of oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, intravenous nutritional supplementation, and the combination of these two treatments on liver functions, metabolic balances, nitrogen metabolism, and nutritional status in patients with moderate to severe alcoholic hepatitis. Of 43 patients originally recruited, 39 (19 men, 20 women) with typical clinical and laboratory features of alcoholic hepatitis (11 Child's-Pugh class B; 28 class C) were admitted to a metabolic unit and completed a 35-day three-phase protocol. Phase I was a 10-day baseline period of observation, during which routine and special quantitative tests of liver function (galactose and antipyrine metabolism), a 7-day elemental balance study, and a 15N, 13C-leucine metabolism study were done. Phase II was a 21-day treatment period during which patients were randomly assigned to receive one of four regimens: 1) standard therapy, consisting of abstinence, a balanced, nutritionally adequate diet, and multivitamins; 2) oxandrolone (20 mg orally four times a day 80 MG PER DAY!) plus standard therapy; 3) nutritional supplementation, consisting of 2 L daily of 3.5% crystalline amino acids (in 5% dextrose), given by peripheral vein; or 4) a combination of oxandrolone and nutritional supplementation, along with standard therapy. Metabolic balances were repeated during phase II. Phase III was 2 or 3 days posttreatment, during which special studies of liver functions and volumes and leucine metabolism were repeated. All patients who completed phase I of study and were randomly allocated to one of the four treatment groups completed the subsequent two phases. Overall, with time, patients showed highly significant improvements in most clinical and laboratory features. For most standard laboratory tests improvements were more marked in patients treated with nutritional supplementation and/or oxandrolone than in those given standard therapy alone. Liver volumes fell in all treatment groups. We conclude that the addition of oxandralone leads to more rapid improvement in the laboratory parameters measured.
Treatment of alcoholic hepatitis.
Am J Gastroenterol. 1989 Oct;84(10):1217-21.
N Engl J Med 1984 Dec 6;311(23):1464-70 Related Articles, Books
Short-term and long-term survival in patients with alcoholic hepatitis treated with oxandrolone and prednisolone.
Mendenhall CL, Anderson S, Garcia-Pont P, Goldberg S, Kiernan T, Seeff LB, Sorrell M, Tamburro C, Weesner R, Zetterman R, et al.
A cooperative study was conducted to determine the efficacy of 30 days of treatment with either a glucocorticosteroid (prednisolone) or an anabolic steroid (oxandrolone) in moderate or severe alcoholic hepatitis. One hundred thirty-two patients with moderate disease and 131 with severe disease were randomly assigned to one of three treatments: prednisolone, oxandrolone, or placebo. During the 30 days, mortality in the groups receiving steroid therapy was not significantly different from mortality in the placebo group. Thirteen per cent of the moderately ill patients and 29 per cent of the severely ill patients died. Although neither steroid improved short-term survival, oxandrolone therapy was associated with a beneficial effect on long-term survival. This was especially true in patients with moderate disease: among those who survived for one or two months after the start of treatment the conditional six-month death rate was 3.5 per cent after oxandrolone and 19 to 20 per cent after placebo (P = 0.02). No consistent long-term effect was associated with prednisolone therapy.
If you would like me to direct you toward more PUBLISHED studies on oxandralone, just let me know.
-Stew
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