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big_bad_buff
New member
Levi’s isn’t going to be American anymore, their closing their last two plants and laying off over 800 people. wtf do you think about that?
Levi’s is going over seas
- Thread starter big_bad_buff
- Start date
D
DcupSheepNipples
Guest
It's another sad day! Many more jobs to come! The Wallstreet Culture has gone from screwing stockholders to screwing workers because they are so worried about profits and their stock prices!
PolishHammer1977
New member
Makes sense to me. When I was in europe Levi's were VERY popular. There dying out here.
big_bad_buff
New member
America is dying out
PolishHammer1977
New member
big_bad_buff said:
Living overseas taught me one thing of importance;
AMERICANS ARE SPOILED AND TAKE EVERYTHING FOR GRANTED!
A
ajtomasi
Guest
American's are spoiled pigs
just like this pig i saw fuck a man, he sort of liked it, but the pig was huge
just like this pig i saw fuck a man, he sort of liked it, but the pig was huge
D
DcupSheepNipples
Guest
ajtomasi said:
So what are you trying to say? I believe what you trying to say is that youra pig fucker, you liked it but next time you will go for a smaller younger pig and will tie him up first rather than getting kicked in your balls by it's hoof!
onerepmaximum
New member
TC2 said:
People need to go up the food chain for work, not down it.
Americans are spolied - our country is super rich.
Americans are spolied - our country is super rich.
A
ajtomasi
Guest
DcupSheepNipples said:
Look all i'm saying is that the guy i saw in this movie looked a lot like you, ok.
milo hobgoblin
New member
....
boycotting their products will not work...
the only way they would ever get the point is by boycotting their stocks. As long as people keep buying stock because a company looks priftable AFTER they ship jobs overseas... they will keep doing it.
And our country may be super rich... but it certainly isnt in the hands of the average citizen.
Most of our middle class has less disposable income, less job security and more debt. People are using their credit cards just to survive.
Untill American citizens start making a cultural shift to a more Nationalist attitude.... these problems will only get worse.
Eventually there will be no middle class. Just a small upper class and a HUGE proletariat class of easily manipulated voters and worker drones.
STOP BUYING STOCK IN TREASONOUS COMPANIES.
boycotting their products will not work...
the only way they would ever get the point is by boycotting their stocks. As long as people keep buying stock because a company looks priftable AFTER they ship jobs overseas... they will keep doing it.
And our country may be super rich... but it certainly isnt in the hands of the average citizen.
Most of our middle class has less disposable income, less job security and more debt. People are using their credit cards just to survive.
Untill American citizens start making a cultural shift to a more Nationalist attitude.... these problems will only get worse.
Eventually there will be no middle class. Just a small upper class and a HUGE proletariat class of easily manipulated voters and worker drones.
STOP BUYING STOCK IN TREASONOUS COMPANIES.
Re: ....
You can't motivate people with politics over their own money. Markets always win. Always. No one will boycott a stock they can make money on.
You got that right.
A lot of that is people living beyond their means. That's just stupidity on their part.
Markets always win.
Yes, capitlaism leads to oligarchy, Old news.
Americans need to go back to the free market with less governmnet regulation. This is an unprecendented time to go UP the food chain. Sadly we don't have the education system for most people to do it, and the country has gotten so rich that even the working class has a great standard of living, so there is little motivation to improve.
This is called markets impacting society. Go up the chain or get outsourced.
Milo Hobgoblin said:
You can't motivate people with politics over their own money. Markets always win. Always. No one will boycott a stock they can make money on.
You got that right.
A lot of that is people living beyond their means. That's just stupidity on their part.
Markets always win.
Yes, capitlaism leads to oligarchy, Old news.
Americans need to go back to the free market with less governmnet regulation. This is an unprecendented time to go UP the food chain. Sadly we don't have the education system for most people to do it, and the country has gotten so rich that even the working class has a great standard of living, so there is little motivation to improve.
This is called markets impacting society. Go up the chain or get outsourced.
milo hobgoblin
New member
...
Well Matt I guess thats what Im getting at... I think people need to start buying not just with their pocket bboks in mind but also with their hearts... even if a stock looks really attractive... people should consider the nationalist policies of that company when making their purchasing decision.
Until that happens this problem will only get worse.
and as far as going up the chain... you can only have so many engineers, doctors and lawyers.
This countries economic power comes from its middle class... and the middle class is going the way od the do-do bird. So many middle class jobs are being outsourced to off shore and near shore companies. Huge floods of immigrants are taking all the lower class jobs... my kids cant even get a job at Mcdonalds anymore. A janitors postion.. forget it... if you're not a Mexican they wont even consider you. Farm work... no way. Even if a white could get a farm job... the environment is so hostile towards whites they wouldnt last a week.
And another thing thats happening... even local hgh tech jobs that arent getting ousourced are being taken by H1B immigrants. Because they'll work for less money.
I dont really beleive as many people as you think are living beyond their means... I think they are buying what they usually buy... and then getting laid off. Stuck with huge bills because their company laid them off with no notice.
We just 40% of our work force to outsourcing and they got 1 day notice.
People have GOT to start thinking about more than just profits when buying stocks or this whole country is screwed.
Well Matt I guess thats what Im getting at... I think people need to start buying not just with their pocket bboks in mind but also with their hearts... even if a stock looks really attractive... people should consider the nationalist policies of that company when making their purchasing decision.
Until that happens this problem will only get worse.
and as far as going up the chain... you can only have so many engineers, doctors and lawyers.
This countries economic power comes from its middle class... and the middle class is going the way od the do-do bird. So many middle class jobs are being outsourced to off shore and near shore companies. Huge floods of immigrants are taking all the lower class jobs... my kids cant even get a job at Mcdonalds anymore. A janitors postion.. forget it... if you're not a Mexican they wont even consider you. Farm work... no way. Even if a white could get a farm job... the environment is so hostile towards whites they wouldnt last a week.
And another thing thats happening... even local hgh tech jobs that arent getting ousourced are being taken by H1B immigrants. Because they'll work for less money.
I dont really beleive as many people as you think are living beyond their means... I think they are buying what they usually buy... and then getting laid off. Stuck with huge bills because their company laid them off with no notice.
We just 40% of our work force to outsourcing and they got 1 day notice.
People have GOT to start thinking about more than just profits when buying stocks or this whole country is screwed.
the nature boy
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
not only that, americans want to buy things for cheap.
NoDaddyNo
New member
Re: Re: ....
Sounds like I agree with Matt. Wouldn't be the first time.
It is annoying to see people with this idea that they are entitled to something - as if they are owed something for just existing in America.
Work for your goals and you get something. Government's reason to exist is to grow, and in order to grow, it needs to tax you more. Take the money from one group and give it to another group - flattening things, but necessarily helping.
bah, I don't know why I bother writing these things, it isn't like people are ever like "Oh, I see your point, yeah - I like that idea."
MattTheSkywalker said:
Sounds like I agree with Matt. Wouldn't be the first time.
It is annoying to see people with this idea that they are entitled to something - as if they are owed something for just existing in America.
Work for your goals and you get something. Government's reason to exist is to grow, and in order to grow, it needs to tax you more. Take the money from one group and give it to another group - flattening things, but necessarily helping.
bah, I don't know why I bother writing these things, it isn't like people are ever like "Oh, I see your point, yeah - I like that idea."
spongebob
New member
people need to get over this notion that because you live in america you are entitled to have a job. a good paying job. its just not the case.
our economy has long been shifting from a high paid blue collar factory job to a higher educated workforce in non-production type work.
they'll just have to make do and find new jobs.
our economy has long been shifting from a high paid blue collar factory job to a higher educated workforce in non-production type work.
they'll just have to make do and find new jobs.
milo hobgoblin
New member
....
I dont agree... people think they are entitled to have a job because they work hard, get and education and sacrafice.
And the high tech sector (you know people who worked UP the ladder) are the ones getting hit the hardest.
You all act like you've never seen a newspaper.
Its NOT factory workers getting hit...its engineers and technicians. We educate a bunch of Indians here on Visas then ship them home along with a job that an American use to hold.
Not because he is better at it... simply because he is cheaper. And the ONLY reason he'll do it for less is because he can afford to in India.
Worse yet is hiring H1B visas to do jobs IN the country... then giving them social security to go back home to whatever shithole they're from. Their communication skills are horrible, but hey they'll work cheap.
Do ANY of you work in corporate America? this problem isnt just isolated to San Diego.. Im reading about this shit happeneing all across the country every day.
Dont ANY of you give a fuck about your countrymen... or is the almighty dollar the only thing you see???
If thats the case then we are doomed.
There are A LOT of hard working Americans out there losing their jobs every day becasue of these problems. They are losing their homes, their lives and their families.
I dont agree... people think they are entitled to have a job because they work hard, get and education and sacrafice.
And the high tech sector (you know people who worked UP the ladder) are the ones getting hit the hardest.
You all act like you've never seen a newspaper.
Its NOT factory workers getting hit...its engineers and technicians. We educate a bunch of Indians here on Visas then ship them home along with a job that an American use to hold.
Not because he is better at it... simply because he is cheaper. And the ONLY reason he'll do it for less is because he can afford to in India.
Worse yet is hiring H1B visas to do jobs IN the country... then giving them social security to go back home to whatever shithole they're from. Their communication skills are horrible, but hey they'll work cheap.
Do ANY of you work in corporate America? this problem isnt just isolated to San Diego.. Im reading about this shit happeneing all across the country every day.
Dont ANY of you give a fuck about your countrymen... or is the almighty dollar the only thing you see???
If thats the case then we are doomed.
There are A LOT of hard working Americans out there losing their jobs every day becasue of these problems. They are losing their homes, their lives and their families.
spongebob
New member
Re: ....
with all your complaining i wouldnt hire you either. you sound lazy.
hard working, educated, and any other noble trait you can mention does not mean you are promised a job just because you live in america.
let me break it down to you like this. i dont know anyone who is unemployed right now, not one person. everyone in my circle, including family, friends and co-workers, are all working and getting paid rather well. i really dont see your point here. because a few jobs are lost in a certain sector, the country is going to shit huh? im sorry but i just dont see that.
americans need to quit being so damn materialistic about everything, thier prescious jobs, thier prescious 3000sqft house, thier prescious SUV's(which are the epitome of spoiled americans), and all thier other materialistic toys. if you lose your job, suck it up and downsize your lifestyle immediately and rebound. do what it take to get another job.
i can only imagine what people of the great depression would think of todays "american".
Milo Hobgoblin said:
with all your complaining i wouldnt hire you either. you sound lazy.
hard working, educated, and any other noble trait you can mention does not mean you are promised a job just because you live in america.
let me break it down to you like this. i dont know anyone who is unemployed right now, not one person. everyone in my circle, including family, friends and co-workers, are all working and getting paid rather well. i really dont see your point here. because a few jobs are lost in a certain sector, the country is going to shit huh? im sorry but i just dont see that.
americans need to quit being so damn materialistic about everything, thier prescious jobs, thier prescious 3000sqft house, thier prescious SUV's(which are the epitome of spoiled americans), and all thier other materialistic toys. if you lose your job, suck it up and downsize your lifestyle immediately and rebound. do what it take to get another job.
i can only imagine what people of the great depression would think of todays "american".
milo hobgoblin
New member
..............
No, I guess it doesnt anymore...
so what is it then that gets you a job? Luck? skin color? nationality?
I went back to night school just "in case" the worst happens. Now its happening so rapidly myself and all our coworkers constantly worry about our jobs.
I guess you and your friends must be special... and we are all just lazy..
You sound naive'. So you dont know anyone out of work... that means everything is peachy for most of America?
There are a lot of people who bust there ass and work ten times harder than you ever will... and they are losing their jobs because of corporate downsizing. Companies trying to save a buck for their stockholders and a CEO's salary and bonus.
I guess they are all lazy too? You're an idiot.
Im guessing you ride a bike to work and live in a shack... you must be a martyr.. all those lazy stupid Americans who own nice houses and drive nice cars should just give it all up. Stop being so materialisitc...
These people spent years in school and trainign to get to a point where they can afford a house and a car... to lose it all in bankruptcy court. But according to you its their fault for buying stuff in the first place... and being materialistic.
What the fuck do you spend your money on?
No, I guess it doesnt anymore...
so what is it then that gets you a job? Luck? skin color? nationality?
I went back to night school just "in case" the worst happens. Now its happening so rapidly myself and all our coworkers constantly worry about our jobs.
I guess you and your friends must be special... and we are all just lazy..
You sound naive'. So you dont know anyone out of work... that means everything is peachy for most of America?
There are a lot of people who bust there ass and work ten times harder than you ever will... and they are losing their jobs because of corporate downsizing. Companies trying to save a buck for their stockholders and a CEO's salary and bonus.
I guess they are all lazy too? You're an idiot.
Im guessing you ride a bike to work and live in a shack... you must be a martyr.. all those lazy stupid Americans who own nice houses and drive nice cars should just give it all up. Stop being so materialisitc...
These people spent years in school and trainign to get to a point where they can afford a house and a car... to lose it all in bankruptcy court. But according to you its their fault for buying stuff in the first place... and being materialistic.
What the fuck do you spend your money on?
jackangel
New member
This is good. Reading through the first page of this thread, I had little hope for an argument, but now that there's cursing and name-calling, we might be good to go.
This is one of the most important things you've ever posted. You are close to a breakthrough, I can feel it.
NoDaddyNo said:
This is one of the most important things you've ever posted. You are close to a breakthrough, I can feel it.
spongebob
New member
Re: ..............
lol. i knew id get you going!
you sound so materialistic its pathetic. if you want to spend all day constantly worrying about your job go right ahead. i'll worry about it when i dont have it anymore. like many times before i just sucked it up and did something about it. just last year i went from 70K to unemployment for about 4 months. hey, i did what i had to do. now im back at work, life goes on. if i had to i would have just sold a car or two and downsized until i rebounded. no big deal, shit happens.
no, me and my friends are not special, we just have jobs thats all!
for most of america, yes things are peachy. what is the unemployment rate? 6%. that is a very small minority. and even alot smaller if you take into consideration that some of the unemployment claims are people NOT wanting to work. i know because i was one of them. im just giving you real world examples, i do not know anyone personally out of work right now. im sorry if that doesnt fit your gloom and doom scenario of america.
have you looked at new car sales and new home sales lately. the housing market is absolutely booming. who are these people buying these homes? thier must be something good happening out there.
LOL. yeh, you really know how hard i work. and as i already explained, i was out of work last year.
yeh im an idiot but im a working idiot not a lazy idiot, there is a huge difference.
if you dont believe that americans are over materialistic and over extended on thier credit to have those materialistic items then you are stupid. noone is saying people shouldnt have nice things that they can AFFORD. but when you live real close from paycheck to paycheck then something is wrong with that. example, if you and your spouse both work, you should have monthly expenses that are not too much higher than the lowest income earner of the two, just in case one of you lose your job.
most people i know have a oversized house and a very expensive vehicle. nothing wrong with having nice things but if your earning roughly 50K a year, you probably ought not have a house note of 1500$ or a car note of 550$. YOU SEE THIS ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE LIVING BEYOND THIER MEANS.
i dont have alot of materialistic items so to speak. my wife drives a nice car and thats about it. and i live in a dump. although we are building a nicer home. and we make a little over 100K. and i live in shit town TX where it is relatively cheap to live.
i think your missing my point. i realize people work hard and due to unforeseen circumstances amy hit financial difficulties.
1. be prepared for those unforeseen circumstances.
2. when it happens, just downsize and dont cry about it. pick yourself up by the bootstraps and carry on.
you probaly live in an oversized house and drive a ford excursion.
Milo Hobgoblin said:
lol. i knew id get you going!
you sound so materialistic its pathetic. if you want to spend all day constantly worrying about your job go right ahead. i'll worry about it when i dont have it anymore. like many times before i just sucked it up and did something about it. just last year i went from 70K to unemployment for about 4 months. hey, i did what i had to do. now im back at work, life goes on. if i had to i would have just sold a car or two and downsized until i rebounded. no big deal, shit happens.
no, me and my friends are not special, we just have jobs thats all!
for most of america, yes things are peachy. what is the unemployment rate? 6%. that is a very small minority. and even alot smaller if you take into consideration that some of the unemployment claims are people NOT wanting to work. i know because i was one of them. im just giving you real world examples, i do not know anyone personally out of work right now. im sorry if that doesnt fit your gloom and doom scenario of america.
have you looked at new car sales and new home sales lately. the housing market is absolutely booming. who are these people buying these homes? thier must be something good happening out there.
LOL. yeh, you really know how hard i work. and as i already explained, i was out of work last year.
yeh im an idiot but im a working idiot not a lazy idiot, there is a huge difference.
if you dont believe that americans are over materialistic and over extended on thier credit to have those materialistic items then you are stupid. noone is saying people shouldnt have nice things that they can AFFORD. but when you live real close from paycheck to paycheck then something is wrong with that. example, if you and your spouse both work, you should have monthly expenses that are not too much higher than the lowest income earner of the two, just in case one of you lose your job.
most people i know have a oversized house and a very expensive vehicle. nothing wrong with having nice things but if your earning roughly 50K a year, you probably ought not have a house note of 1500$ or a car note of 550$. YOU SEE THIS ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE LIVING BEYOND THIER MEANS.
i dont have alot of materialistic items so to speak. my wife drives a nice car and thats about it. and i live in a dump. although we are building a nicer home. and we make a little over 100K. and i live in shit town TX where it is relatively cheap to live.
i think your missing my point. i realize people work hard and due to unforeseen circumstances amy hit financial difficulties.
1. be prepared for those unforeseen circumstances.
2. when it happens, just downsize and dont cry about it. pick yourself up by the bootstraps and carry on.
you probaly live in an oversized house and drive a ford excursion.
Re: ....
No one is entitled to anything in the business world. Remember, we are entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". We are entitled to pursue happiness, not to achieve it. we have to earn it.
I was a network engineer. I saw what was coming. I got out ahead of schedule, wrote a few books and certification guidelines, and made a lot of money doing it. Now I take on projects as they come for several hundred thousand a year, above and beyond my "day" job, which pays a similar amount.
Not sure what this means.
Yes, it is how a free market works. Are you arguing for state controls???
Capitalism works because it matches individual greed with societal benefit. Bill Gates gets super rich, we all get cheap operating systems. It's a trite example but it summarizes capitalism.
Yes...economics of the free market. A beautful thing. How can you logically argue against this?
I work in corproate America. I supervise 100 Americans. We'll soon be outsourcing though. It's called economics. We're going to the Caribbean, not India. With the money we save we will expand the business and hire more Americans.
I served my country in the Armed Forces. But this is economics....and if you would realize how contradictory you are being, you'd realize there are more dollars here for all of us.
Will you listen to yourself?
You are arguing for "feel-good economics": people should ignore their investment portfolio and buy stocks of companies that benefit Americans, putting financial performace secondary. People don't do that. It doesn't work that way.
Logically, your solution is identical to the feel good politics of welfare, social security, and other entitlement programs that you claim to abhor.
Guess what: software engineering is a low-skill set job. Anyone can do it. No more money there. Sorry. It's factory work with a computer. Go do something else.
It's free markets that got us this standard of living. Why are you fighting it?
Americans for the first time can finally free themselves of low skill set jobs. We can avail ourselves of the increased demand for higher-level skill set jobs (here's a clue - it goes beyond doctor/lawyer/engineer. In my businesses I have all 3 working for me. They're not magicians. It's just time in the classroom.)
American industry can finally afford to cheaply hire people to do jobs that used to cost a ton. That money can go elsewhere into innovation and development of bigger and better industries. More Americans are freed from cubicles to do the higher level work, to manage the innovation, etc.
Now, since you claim to be the voice of corproate America, (LOL) I am sure you understand this: any company benefits when more work can be pushed down to lower paid desks. This is done by streamlining processes. It frees up senior people to take the business in new directions. It's called progress.
Our country can benefit from pushing that work down to "lower paid desks" overseas. That frees up Americans to lead the innovation that has presented itself. Our plates are being cleared.
Why do you want to keep Americans chained to their low skilled desks, with all this opportunity around?
Milo Hobgoblin said:
No one is entitled to anything in the business world. Remember, we are entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". We are entitled to pursue happiness, not to achieve it. we have to earn it.
I was a network engineer. I saw what was coming. I got out ahead of schedule, wrote a few books and certification guidelines, and made a lot of money doing it. Now I take on projects as they come for several hundred thousand a year, above and beyond my "day" job, which pays a similar amount.
Not sure what this means.
Yes, it is how a free market works. Are you arguing for state controls???
Capitalism works because it matches individual greed with societal benefit. Bill Gates gets super rich, we all get cheap operating systems. It's a trite example but it summarizes capitalism.
Yes...economics of the free market. A beautful thing. How can you logically argue against this?
I work in corproate America. I supervise 100 Americans. We'll soon be outsourcing though. It's called economics. We're going to the Caribbean, not India. With the money we save we will expand the business and hire more Americans.
I served my country in the Armed Forces. But this is economics....and if you would realize how contradictory you are being, you'd realize there are more dollars here for all of us.
Will you listen to yourself?
You are arguing for "feel-good economics": people should ignore their investment portfolio and buy stocks of companies that benefit Americans, putting financial performace secondary. People don't do that. It doesn't work that way.
Logically, your solution is identical to the feel good politics of welfare, social security, and other entitlement programs that you claim to abhor.
Guess what: software engineering is a low-skill set job. Anyone can do it. No more money there. Sorry. It's factory work with a computer. Go do something else.
It's free markets that got us this standard of living. Why are you fighting it?
Americans for the first time can finally free themselves of low skill set jobs. We can avail ourselves of the increased demand for higher-level skill set jobs (here's a clue - it goes beyond doctor/lawyer/engineer. In my businesses I have all 3 working for me. They're not magicians. It's just time in the classroom.)
American industry can finally afford to cheaply hire people to do jobs that used to cost a ton. That money can go elsewhere into innovation and development of bigger and better industries. More Americans are freed from cubicles to do the higher level work, to manage the innovation, etc.
Now, since you claim to be the voice of corproate America, (LOL) I am sure you understand this: any company benefits when more work can be pushed down to lower paid desks. This is done by streamlining processes. It frees up senior people to take the business in new directions. It's called progress.
Our country can benefit from pushing that work down to "lower paid desks" overseas. That frees up Americans to lead the innovation that has presented itself. Our plates are being cleared.
Why do you want to keep Americans chained to their low skilled desks, with all this opportunity around?
milo hobgoblin
New member
hell no
I drive an old Montero and live in a small condo with my girlfriend. We stay there because her morgtage payment is VERY cheap and we do not want to be morgtage poor. In other words, not living beyond our means.
Part of the problem is living in SoCal... but I cant leave because of my children.
I wouldnt even consider buying a new car now.
The ONLY thing I own that would be considered materialisitc is my PC which I built myself. for about 800 dollars.
I studied molecular bio for 5 years but the money is horrible and they starting outsourcing jobs. I went into IT and it was okay for 3 years but my company and most of our contracts are outsourcing much of their work to Quebec and India... Austrailia too. I got a CCNA, MCSE and am working on my CCNP... but it may all be in vain.. all while working full time..
I dont think most people would consider that lazy.
whats left? How much of my life do I have to give up because of this shit..
Im tired of school. Im tired of seeing everyone I know go on unemployment.
Id goback into the fitness industry but private gyms just cant compete with Corporate fitness in San Diego anymore. Business taxes, unemployment insurance and hostile regulations make it nearly impossible to open a customer service realted job anymore.
I used to won some gold gyms (well.. me and about ten toehr guys) and all we spent most of our time doing was fighting the city and trying to keep our heads above water... eventually we had to sell out to Ballys... which replaced all of our low end workers with immigrants who do nothing but clean the gym.
All our managers ahd to become pure commision salepeople. A horrible existence.
No Im as far from materialistic as you can get.
Okay I do have a cable modem...Ill admit that.
I drive an old Montero and live in a small condo with my girlfriend. We stay there because her morgtage payment is VERY cheap and we do not want to be morgtage poor. In other words, not living beyond our means.
Part of the problem is living in SoCal... but I cant leave because of my children.
I wouldnt even consider buying a new car now.
The ONLY thing I own that would be considered materialisitc is my PC which I built myself. for about 800 dollars.
I studied molecular bio for 5 years but the money is horrible and they starting outsourcing jobs. I went into IT and it was okay for 3 years but my company and most of our contracts are outsourcing much of their work to Quebec and India... Austrailia too. I got a CCNA, MCSE and am working on my CCNP... but it may all be in vain.. all while working full time..
I dont think most people would consider that lazy.
whats left? How much of my life do I have to give up because of this shit..
Im tired of school. Im tired of seeing everyone I know go on unemployment.
Id goback into the fitness industry but private gyms just cant compete with Corporate fitness in San Diego anymore. Business taxes, unemployment insurance and hostile regulations make it nearly impossible to open a customer service realted job anymore.
I used to won some gold gyms (well.. me and about ten toehr guys) and all we spent most of our time doing was fighting the city and trying to keep our heads above water... eventually we had to sell out to Ballys... which replaced all of our low end workers with immigrants who do nothing but clean the gym.
All our managers ahd to become pure commision salepeople. A horrible existence.
No Im as far from materialistic as you can get.
Okay I do have a cable modem...Ill admit that.
spongebob
New member
Re: hell no
have you ever considered blue collar work? maybe plumbing or electrician? you might have better luck.
im really not sure what to say about your "how much of my life do i have to give up" comment. i hope you dont go crazy like this guy in houston that killed part of his family and himself because he had to downsize from a 300K home in the suburbs to a 150K home in the suburbs. he lost his status and then lost his mind.
Milo Hobgoblin said:
have you ever considered blue collar work? maybe plumbing or electrician? you might have better luck.
im really not sure what to say about your "how much of my life do i have to give up" comment. i hope you dont go crazy like this guy in houston that killed part of his family and himself because he had to downsize from a 300K home in the suburbs to a 150K home in the suburbs. he lost his status and then lost his mind.
spongebob
New member
supernav said:
two good points. although its improbable for that 40 year to "go up the food chain", its not impossible.
i dont have a problem with people buying, its when they are overbuying. most people i know live real close in a paycheck to paycheck situation. not good. people are and have been over-extended on thier credit for awhile now. bottom line is noone is promised a job because they work hard, educated themselves, and live in america.
supernav said:
The economy is a market. You can't touch it or play with it, it's a market that responds to economic forces, not emotions. And you know what? It doesn;t respond to legislation either.
Your whole deal about H-1's is totally off...think it through. With an H-1, the foreign employee comes here and works here. An American loses a job, but at least some of that H-1 guy's earnings are spent HERE in the US. He has to live somewhere, eat etc.
If not for H-1's, the jobs would get strictly outsourced, meaning the American job would go overseas, and so would the money. At least the H-1 keeps some of the money in the US.
That 40 year old you describe has to go up the food chain, or not eat. I was prefectly comfortable making $120,000 a year as a network engineer. Know what? Reality set in and the supply of eingineers (American, oversaeas etc.) skyrocketed. Salaries were dropping. I could have stayed an network engineer and fought Indians for a $40K job, but I went up the food chain. Now I earn about 7 times that $120K number and have 100 employees.
You want to sit here and say "doesn't matter to that guy" but you're totally wrong on your perspective, just like you look at the H-1's incorrectly. Markets are not about that one guy or groups of guys like that. They;re about the entire market. That guy either gets in front of the forces, or at least goes along with them, or he works at Denny's.
The guy is inside the market. he either plays along or gets Denny's.
milo hobgoblin
New member
...
you know... so much of what Matt writes looks great on paper and in the Economics classroom.
But in the end... all its doing is weakening our country and putting American citizens out of work in their own country. Paint it any way you want but most of us out here see factories closing and going to other countries.... and the new ones that do open... hire Mexicans or illegally ship them up *cough* Tyson foods *cough*. Engineering and IT jobs... same thing. They dont exist in factories.... but now they either fill the cubicle with an immigrant worker or find some way to ship it overseas.
The scariest part of all this is everything Matt writes looks so damn convincing... its has so much economic dogma to back it up. But I cant help feel its all contrived... a big fairy tail to create profit for a very small minority of people using tools like immigrant labor, H1b visas, diversity and affirmative action to displace American workers. Anyone who speaks out is a dinosaur, an anti semite and a racist.
A strong culturally homogenous work force with stable lives and security is the ONLY thing that will make this country strong in the long run.
Look at America in the 50s and 60s . A very strong economy of insane growth.. supported by a VERY homogenous work force. The national debt was tiny, unemployment was almost non existant for anyone who wanted a job.
Look at America now. Well you got your diverse workforce... you immigrants.. the crime they bring.
Unemployment is skyrocketing...
But you've spent so may years convincing yourself that this is good for the economy that you can no longer see the HUGE dancing elephant in your living room.
you know... so much of what Matt writes looks great on paper and in the Economics classroom.
But in the end... all its doing is weakening our country and putting American citizens out of work in their own country. Paint it any way you want but most of us out here see factories closing and going to other countries.... and the new ones that do open... hire Mexicans or illegally ship them up *cough* Tyson foods *cough*. Engineering and IT jobs... same thing. They dont exist in factories.... but now they either fill the cubicle with an immigrant worker or find some way to ship it overseas.
The scariest part of all this is everything Matt writes looks so damn convincing... its has so much economic dogma to back it up. But I cant help feel its all contrived... a big fairy tail to create profit for a very small minority of people using tools like immigrant labor, H1b visas, diversity and affirmative action to displace American workers. Anyone who speaks out is a dinosaur, an anti semite and a racist.
A strong culturally homogenous work force with stable lives and security is the ONLY thing that will make this country strong in the long run.
Look at America in the 50s and 60s . A very strong economy of insane growth.. supported by a VERY homogenous work force. The national debt was tiny, unemployment was almost non existant for anyone who wanted a job.
Look at America now. Well you got your diverse workforce... you immigrants.. the crime they bring.
Unemployment is skyrocketing...
But you've spent so may years convincing yourself that this is good for the economy that you can no longer see the HUGE dancing elephant in your living room.
supernav said:
You're doing it again. You just can't think very well. Maybe that's why you always TALK about starting business and never actually do ANYTHING.
I would always want to push every job I can down to the lowest wage position that can do the job. It's ridiculous for people to earn $40K per year doing a job that someone will take for $10K. And I don't care if "Bob" is repalced with "Pedro", "Raj" or whoever.
You're relying on emotion with statements like "I'd LOVE to see you go to these blue collar, hard working, 50 y/o men who just got replaced by Pedro"
It's pure emotion, not logic. Reducing salaries while maintiaing service is how buisnesses grow.
Hey man...too fucking bad. what happened to all the carriage makers when cars appeared? Same thing.
If you want to talk emotion, I have nothing to say to you. Go complain about something else.
milo hobgoblin
New member
Hey Matt
But its not how a country grows.
What you are talking about only lines the pockets of a very small minority of people at the top of the food chain while the common denominator of earnings is brought down.
and Matt you SHOULD care about people like Bob getting replaced by Pedro...
but if I have to explain the reasons why...
your theory is a perfect example of why pure capitialism fails as miserably as communism.
But its not how a country grows.
What you are talking about only lines the pockets of a very small minority of people at the top of the food chain while the common denominator of earnings is brought down.
and Matt you SHOULD care about people like Bob getting replaced by Pedro...
but if I have to explain the reasons why...
your theory is a perfect example of why pure capitialism fails as miserably as communism.
c-sharp minor
Well-known member
Just a little sidenote.
I work for an American based company which has roughly 50 plants throughout the US and Canada.
This quarter (that being Oct--Dec) is generally the slowest of the four. We are hitting the highest sales records EVER in the history of our corporation.
Business is booming, which means people are spending.
Excellent thread by the way, and good points on ALL sides of the discussion.
I work for an American based company which has roughly 50 plants throughout the US and Canada.
This quarter (that being Oct--Dec) is generally the slowest of the four. We are hitting the highest sales records EVER in the history of our corporation.
Business is booming, which means people are spending.
Excellent thread by the way, and good points on ALL sides of the discussion.
Re: Hey Matt
let me speak from personal experience.
I live in a world that few of you comprehend or even know exists. I advise politicans on economic strategy on a regular basis at the city and state level through various boards or panels I serve on. One day I will advoise at the national level, I hope. I meet with Wall Street people at least quarterly to discuss policy setting for our industry as well as economic opportunities around the world. We're having this discussion like we all just showed up today and are equal at this. Some of you are getting your the bases for your arguent from the nightly news or from what your neighbor is going through. Give me a fucking break.
I know that pure unregulated capitalism becomes the same as socialism over time (one person owns everything) or it becomes an oligarchy. Newsflash: our economy is not pure capitalism.
No one has presented any argument except for xenophobia (Americans are losing out). Give me a motherfucking break.
Supernav, a playing field is more level when laws do not restrict it. All you have argued for is "protectionist legislation."
Some of you are calling for legislation to protect Bob's middle calss status. Fuck Bob and fuck Bob extra hard with a 30 inch spike dildo in the ass if he is in a union.
Inefficiencies must be reduced. That's how businesses grow. Wealth must be created - it doesn;t just exist. Reducing inefficiencies wherever they exist is how wealth is created. I'd gladly hire person A over person B if the level of service is comparable and person A wants $30K / yr less.
So would any ofd you. Most of you just live in your rat race worlds and want something for nothing, or else an excuse for a relatively mediocre life. Fucking get over it. Markets don;t give a shiut what your name is and where you were born...they reward intelligence and productivity.
Protectionist legislation, like unions, protect workers while limiting a business's ability to grow. Translation: less wealth is created.
Life is hard. Succeeding financially is really really hard. Asking businesses to slow down so you can have more just because you were born here is childish, emotional, and pretty fucking sad.
Rant over. Good weekend to all.
let me speak from personal experience.
I live in a world that few of you comprehend or even know exists. I advise politicans on economic strategy on a regular basis at the city and state level through various boards or panels I serve on. One day I will advoise at the national level, I hope. I meet with Wall Street people at least quarterly to discuss policy setting for our industry as well as economic opportunities around the world. We're having this discussion like we all just showed up today and are equal at this. Some of you are getting your the bases for your arguent from the nightly news or from what your neighbor is going through. Give me a fucking break.
I know that pure unregulated capitalism becomes the same as socialism over time (one person owns everything) or it becomes an oligarchy. Newsflash: our economy is not pure capitalism.
No one has presented any argument except for xenophobia (Americans are losing out). Give me a motherfucking break.
Supernav, a playing field is more level when laws do not restrict it. All you have argued for is "protectionist legislation."
Some of you are calling for legislation to protect Bob's middle calss status. Fuck Bob and fuck Bob extra hard with a 30 inch spike dildo in the ass if he is in a union.
Inefficiencies must be reduced. That's how businesses grow. Wealth must be created - it doesn;t just exist. Reducing inefficiencies wherever they exist is how wealth is created. I'd gladly hire person A over person B if the level of service is comparable and person A wants $30K / yr less.
So would any ofd you. Most of you just live in your rat race worlds and want something for nothing, or else an excuse for a relatively mediocre life. Fucking get over it. Markets don;t give a shiut what your name is and where you were born...they reward intelligence and productivity.
Protectionist legislation, like unions, protect workers while limiting a business's ability to grow. Translation: less wealth is created.
Life is hard. Succeeding financially is really really hard. Asking businesses to slow down so you can have more just because you were born here is childish, emotional, and pretty fucking sad.
Rant over. Good weekend to all.
jackangel
New member
Re: Re: Hey Matt
dude, loan me fi dolla?
MattTheSkywalker said:let me speak from personal experience.
I live in a world that few of you comprehend or even know exists. I advise politicans on economic strategy on a regular basis at the city and state level through various boards or panels I serve on. One day I will advoise at the national level, I hope. I meet with Wall Street people at least quarterly to discuss policy setting for our industry as well as economic opportunities around the world. We're having this discussion like we all just showed up today and are equal at this. Some of you are getting your the bases for your arguent from the nightly news or from what your neighbor is going through. Give me a fucking break.
I know that pure unregulated capitalism becomes the same as socialism over time (one person owns everything) or it becomes an oligarchy. Newsflash: our economy is not pure capitalism.
No one has presented any argument except for xenophobia (Americans are losing out). Give me a motherfucking break.
Supernav, a playing field is more level when laws do not restrict it. All you have argued for is "protectionist legislation."
Some of you are calling for legislation to protect Bob's middle calss status. Fuck Bob and fuck Bob extra hard with a 30 inch spike dildo in the ass if he is in a union.
Inefficiencies must be reduced. That's how businesses grow. Wealth must be created - it doesn;t just exist. Reducing inefficiencies wherever they exist is how wealth is created. I'd gladly hire person A over person B if the level of service is comparable and person A wants $30K / yr less.
So would any ofd you. Most of you just live in your rat race worlds and want something for nothing, or else an excuse for a relatively mediocre life. Fucking get over it. Markets don;t give a shiut what your name is and where you were born...they reward intelligence and productivity.
Protectionist legislation, like unions, protect workers while limiting a business's ability to grow. Translation: less wealth is created.
Life is hard. Succeeding financially is really really hard. Asking businesses to slow down so you can have more just because you were born here is childish, emotional, and pretty fucking sad.
Rant over. Good weekend to all.
dude, loan me fi dolla?
spongebob
New member
Re: Re: Hey Matt
but tell us how you really feel.
the only thing i disagree with is your stance on unions. they are legal just like certain protections are legal for companies. you simply cant have one of the entities(employers or employees) going unchecked and unbalanced. unions are a neccessary group IMO. regardless, they are legal and have fought for much needed right in the past and i believe still fight incremetally for workers rights.
ofcourse we need and want free enterprise but if gone unchecked big business would slowly erode workers rights back into the 20's and 30's.
you have to admit though that america is not on a level playing field in alot of areas, workers rights, environmental issues, etc. our workers simply cant compete with child labor and next to non-existent environmental laws. why should we have those laws if our overseas competition isnt? so why dont we just abolish those laws here? especially the environmental ones? is that what we want to be competitive.
i dont want "feel good economy", i want a level playing field.
BTW, congratulations on all your success, you smell terrific!
MattTheSkywalker said:let me speak from personal experience.
I live in a world that few of you comprehend or even know exists. I advise politicans on economic strategy on a regular basis at the city and state level through various boards or panels I serve on. One day I will advoise at the national level, I hope. I meet with Wall Street people at least quarterly to discuss policy setting for our industry as well as economic opportunities around the world. We're having this discussion like we all just showed up today and are equal at this. Some of you are getting your the bases for your arguent from the nightly news or from what your neighbor is going through. Give me a fucking break.
I know that pure unregulated capitalism becomes the same as socialism over time (one person owns everything) or it becomes an oligarchy. Newsflash: our economy is not pure capitalism.
No one has presented any argument except for xenophobia (Americans are losing out). Give me a motherfucking break.
Supernav, a playing field is more level when laws do not restrict it. All you have argued for is "protectionist legislation."
Some of you are calling for legislation to protect Bob's middle calss status. Fuck Bob and fuck Bob extra hard with a 30 inch spike dildo in the ass if he is in a union.
Inefficiencies must be reduced. That's how businesses grow. Wealth must be created - it doesn;t just exist. Reducing inefficiencies wherever they exist is how wealth is created. I'd gladly hire person A over person B if the level of service is comparable and person A wants $30K / yr less.
So would any ofd you. Most of you just live in your rat race worlds and want something for nothing, or else an excuse for a relatively mediocre life. Fucking get over it. Markets don;t give a shiut what your name is and where you were born...they reward intelligence and productivity.
Protectionist legislation, like unions, protect workers while limiting a business's ability to grow. Translation: less wealth is created.
Life is hard. Succeeding financially is really really hard. Asking businesses to slow down so you can have more just because you were born here is childish, emotional, and pretty fucking sad.
Rant over. Good weekend to all.
but tell us how you really feel.
the only thing i disagree with is your stance on unions. they are legal just like certain protections are legal for companies. you simply cant have one of the entities(employers or employees) going unchecked and unbalanced. unions are a neccessary group IMO. regardless, they are legal and have fought for much needed right in the past and i believe still fight incremetally for workers rights.
ofcourse we need and want free enterprise but if gone unchecked big business would slowly erode workers rights back into the 20's and 30's.
you have to admit though that america is not on a level playing field in alot of areas, workers rights, environmental issues, etc. our workers simply cant compete with child labor and next to non-existent environmental laws. why should we have those laws if our overseas competition isnt? so why dont we just abolish those laws here? especially the environmental ones? is that what we want to be competitive.
i dont want "feel good economy", i want a level playing field.
BTW, congratulations on all your success, you smell terrific!
A
Ashamed
Guest
supernav said:
I hope u r not suggesting that we have cheap housing etc? Our house prices are between 2-4 times more expensive than those in the USA....
We do have big shopping malls.
Huge commercial sectors?
Robert Jan
New member
Re: ....
and you know whats gonna happen then dont you? I cant wait
*puts on revolution hat*
Milo Hobgoblin said:
and you know whats gonna happen then dont you? I cant wait
*puts on revolution hat*
