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Lets re-cap what esters are and what they accomplish
- Thread starter Andy13
- Start date
Another thing, isnt adding a carboxylic acid, adding a carboxylic acid? Esters are a functional group consisting of a carbon double bonded to an O, and single bonded to another O, which is single bonded to another carbon. Carboxylic acid is a group with a C double bonded to an O, and single bonded to an OH. It ends there with the carboxylic acid while the ester can have other branches added to the last carbon.
Also, when adding carbon chains, dont you ALKYLATE the structure, finding the triple bond and react it with NaNH2 and the desired halogenated chain (CH3CH2CH2CH2Br)?
Im confused about ESTERING by ALKYLATING (adding chains)? It just doesnt make sense to me..........
Also, when adding carbon chains, dont you ALKYLATE the structure, finding the triple bond and react it with NaNH2 and the desired halogenated chain (CH3CH2CH2CH2Br)?
Im confused about ESTERING by ALKYLATING (adding chains)? It just doesnt make sense to me..........
The main difference between different esters is the number of carbon atoms in the ester. Propionate has three carbons, whereas acetate has two, isobutyrate has four, enanthate has seven, cypionate has eight, and decanoate has ten. On occasion there are more unusual esters, such as cyclohexylmethylcarbonate (used in Parabolan) which has eight carbons and one more oxygen than the above esters do.
an ESTER is a specific functional group consisting of a C bonded to a """"C which is double bonded to an O and single bonded to another O which in turn is single bonded to a C (which attatches to other groups)"""". I take it that the length of the "ester" comes from addiation of a carbon chain to the end C in the aformentioned ester? Is the ester added with the extened chain on it what we are talking about when we say ESTER?
(ester defined in """ """")
But what length is Enathate? I thought the EN prefix is two? (Acetate is also called enthanoate).
(ester defined in """ """")
But what length is Enathate? I thought the EN prefix is two? (Acetate is also called enthanoate).
bigrand said:
Lol.. While were at it, can anyone tell me if it is possible for inverse operaters in a Hamiltonian to be immaginary numbers, if not, then explain why?
Ok..
ESTERS
The ester is a chemical group that usually takes nomenclature pressence. In other words, if the molecule has an ester, it is named after it. Esters can be made by deydration of an an alcohol and carboxylic acid. This method is somewhat primative, however it is an original, and so esters arising from other synthetic means will still be called whatever-acid-ester. For instance, 'acetate' is named after acetic acid, benzoate is also called a benzoic acid ester.. Probably another reason why the ester is named after the acid is because the alcohol and acid are re-generated via (facile) hydrolysis.
As far as extending the length of an ester, the ONLY way this would be done in real life is via transesterification, which is easy. For instance, lets say you have trenbolone acetate and you want to convert it to tren-prop. You simply would heat the TA in propanoic acid with a drop of H2SO4. With this catalyst, the acid (acetic acid) and alcohol (tren) will exist in equilibrium. Since acetic acid is outnumbered by propionic acid by many fold, the formation of tren-prop occurs. A procedure such as this is as easy as it gets. Contrast this with carbon-carbon bond formation-which is not nearly as straight forward-- I don't even know if it could really be done on the end of an ester without disturbing the ester bond.. Theoretically, sure.. but this is not how longer esters are made.. at least not in real life.
Lastly...
'eth' is the prefix for a 2-carbon group.... "Hep" is the prefix for 7 carbons.. but not everyone follows these rules for naming..
Andy
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Ester research has also shown that site of depot is just as important if not more important than ester length. In fact, a longer ester may actually be LESS bioavailable than short regardless of location.
Cyclic esters do almost nothing to extending release and are basically fast release which is why parabolan had to be injected ED/EOD. A study was done with Np and Npp and the Npp released as fast or fast and was less bioavailable.
ALL AS regardless of ester except for water solutions are spiking in 12-24 hours. That means a prop and a deca will still spike in the same time frame. While water spikes in 6, water depots which are really crystalline depots last a week with steady release which is exactly what they were designed for and they;'d be fine except they hurt like hell. AND THAT is why esters were created, that is because they wanted AS more soluble in oil at higher mg/ml to reduce pain. If you look up the patents on esters they write exactly that.
Anyhow, you also have a re-uptake phenomenon where the longer esters not having their ester removed are taken into fat cells to be released later.
And a longer lasting depot doesn't really mean jack shit and it's practically worthless for the most part. And we have a wide body of science using Te for T replacement. Yea, it's great cause it gives 'steady' release over 2 weeks and doctors only have to inject 2x/month, however, the patient feels like shit during the second week and is 'high' a couple days after all concommittant with other psychological problems.
The point then is that long esters in the physiological and bioavailable realm are useless leaving the only reason to have them is for higher mg/ml in oil resulting in less pain which is precisely what was stated in the patents over 50yrs ago!
Chemical Anarchy!
Www.animalkits.be
Cyclic esters do almost nothing to extending release and are basically fast release which is why parabolan had to be injected ED/EOD. A study was done with Np and Npp and the Npp released as fast or fast and was less bioavailable.
ALL AS regardless of ester except for water solutions are spiking in 12-24 hours. That means a prop and a deca will still spike in the same time frame. While water spikes in 6, water depots which are really crystalline depots last a week with steady release which is exactly what they were designed for and they;'d be fine except they hurt like hell. AND THAT is why esters were created, that is because they wanted AS more soluble in oil at higher mg/ml to reduce pain. If you look up the patents on esters they write exactly that.
Anyhow, you also have a re-uptake phenomenon where the longer esters not having their ester removed are taken into fat cells to be released later.
And a longer lasting depot doesn't really mean jack shit and it's practically worthless for the most part. And we have a wide body of science using Te for T replacement. Yea, it's great cause it gives 'steady' release over 2 weeks and doctors only have to inject 2x/month, however, the patient feels like shit during the second week and is 'high' a couple days after all concommittant with other psychological problems.
The point then is that long esters in the physiological and bioavailable realm are useless leaving the only reason to have them is for higher mg/ml in oil resulting in less pain which is precisely what was stated in the patents over 50yrs ago!
Chemical Anarchy!
Www.animalkits.be
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Animal
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Think about it on a marketing and sales and script usage for one second. If long esters were really doing anything at all that was advantageous then everything would have decanoate and undecanoate molecules on them. Just think, one inject a month and it would all be paradise............right?
They don't put 'em because it don't work like you dream it does.
They don't put 'em because it don't work like you dream it does.
Thanks Andy, i was always confused about that, my experience with adding C chains has been by NaNH2/CH3CH2Br alkylation reactions. Not enough experience here to know about ester addition and the chains on them.....
I know not all the names are followed, there are some old school made up names people still use, i just didnt get why even though En is shorter in C than Prop (in terms of naming), En is a longer acting test...!!
I love these threads!
I know not all the names are followed, there are some old school made up names people still use, i just didnt get why even though En is shorter in C than Prop (in terms of naming), En is a longer acting test...!!
I love these threads!
