Lets re-cap what esters are and what they accomplish

[Andy13]

- An ester is made when a carboxylic acid is attached to the O atom on C-17. A water molecule is lost. Incedentally, the O atom that is lost as water comes from the acid, not the steroid.

The ester affects the release rate of the drug from the oil medium. In general, the larger the ester, the slower the diffusion rate from the medium. Don't confuse the ester's effect with plasma half life of active steroid. All steroids have a really short half life (hours) once their ester has been removed. I think a lot of guys think that if they have inject 1000mg steroid with half life of 7 days, that they have 1g floating around, binding AR's for a full week, then they have 500mg in the blood binding ARs for another etc... This is not true. After one week, you will have had 500mg of steroid gradually de-esterified and bound ARs (or not) and excreted just hours after it was de-esterified. You do not have the whole gram floating around for one week.

To figure out how much of a steroid is remaining in ester form after an injection, multiply the starting amount by e raised to [ln(1/2)*day interested in divided by the half life of the drug.]

For example, if you injected 1000mg of T-propionate, after 10 days (assuming the half life is 3 days)
you will theoretically have around 100mg left over in the body, still in ester form


It is illogical to compare all esters by # of carbon atoms. Enanthate, acetate, propionate, deconate can all be compared since they are all the same type of ester, that is, they are all straight chain fatty acids.

Cypionate, phenyl propionate, and cyclohexacarbonate esters cannot be compared to anything since these are not typical, straight chain fatty acids but rather ring structures. Some aromatic (phenyl propionate) some not (cypionate). Aromatic rings generally are slightly less lipophilic than saturated rings. This is why phenyl prop ester is "faster" than a cypionate ester, however, once again, this is not a rational comparison.

It is illogical to compare the same esters on different parent compounds
Nandrolone cypionate does not necesarily have the same release rate as testosterone cypionate. The hydrophobicity of the molecule depends on the polarity of the entire molecule; not just the ester.


This leads me to my question. Why does everyone say (parrot) "prop=less water retention?" It seems logical to me that prop should have MORE water retention since it contributes to a more uneven level of test since a lot of test gets dumped out and de-esterifed immedietly. This gives evil enzymes like aromatase a lot more substrate to work with. Can anyone answer that?


Anyway, there has been some contraversy surrounding esters and their use.. Hope this helps.

Andy

 

[lynaghgrew]

great informative post

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

"It seems logical to me that prop should have MORE water retention since it contributes to a more uneven level of test since a lot of test gets dumped out and de-esterifed immedietly. This gives evil enzymes like aromatase a lot more substrate to work with. Can anyone answer that?"


maybe the sudden influx of test is larger than what can be dealt with by the body's current level of aromatase enzymes?

 

[Andy13]

maybe the sudden influx of test is larger than what can be dealt with by the body's current level of aromatase enzymes?

Actually, I was thinking the sudden influx in test was more than what the AR's can deal with, therefore gives aromatse some substrate to work with.

These enzymes operate on testostosterone concentration. The higher the concentration at a given time, the more aromatization happens. Too bad thats not a reversable reaction.

 

[enzymus]

I didnt even know that there was an argument about this. If you spike test levels rather than introduce them gradually then yes your body will react violantly with more estrogen sides.


Thats why sustanon is a much better steroid than cypionate.

 

[decem]

hey andy, you are obviously educated and intelligent - and i enjoy your posts for the scientific aspect of them. what type of degree(s) do you currently have or are you currently in the process of attaining?

 

[panerai]

Test Prop contribute less water retention for completely different reasons. Because of short half life, it has to be injected pretty much often, usually ed or eod, in small(relatively) amounts. This method of administration insure, steady and even release of test into blood stream. So, the level is almost like a straight line, very little ups and downs. Those sudden jumps in level of test contribute mostly to higher rate of aromatisation.
I know, you can say, that Suspension then should be even less water retentive. But, Suspension has no ester, meaning its release is ridiculously fast and abdrupt, it picks all at one and right after level of estrogen picks all at once. I guess, if user would inject Suspension, lets say, every 3 hours in very small doses, water retention would be even less then with Prop.
BTW, I never heard of Nandrolone Cypionate, what is brand name of it?

 

[Andy13]

I'm not sure if nandrolone cypionate is manufactured or not.. But it could easily be made. I just used that as an example...

 

[Andy13]

hey andy, you are obviously educated and intelligent - and i enjoy your posts for the scientific aspect of them. what type of degree(s) do you currently have or are you currently in the process of attaining?

Unfortunetly-no degrees...

I'm a chemical engineering major but I enjoy chemistry a lot. Bio-organic chemistry has been my prime independent research subject the last couple of years.

 

[Andy13]

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