Leg question

[Syringe11]

Lol I just realized im only looking for the answer I wanna hear but i'll ask anyway...

Can I build strong,solid,muscular legs without squats or leg presses involved in my routine?

Im asking because im seriously tired of feeling like im going to puke after being on the hack squat machine/leg press and when I feel like that I cant finish the rest of my workout so im wondering if I can do the same job by just doing leg extensions,hamstring machine,maybe some lunges and the regular stuff for calves,abductor,adductor

 

[Inhibitor13]

If you knew what were going to say to you then why even ask? Screw the hack squats and just do plain old squats! Id imagine the leg extension and the hamstring curls will build muscle BUT not quite as effective as squats.

Inhibitor

 

[get456]

squats are as important for full body stimulation (CNS as well) as they are just for legs


get under the bar!

 

[wags8]

I asked my legs this question and they just looked at me like I had two heads. SQUAT till you puke. Yuk. Then squat some more. Then brag about it.

 

[dsh89]

I find that I grow better all over when I incorporate squats into my leg routine. Dunno the scientific reason for this (if there is one) but it seems to be true.

 

[Syringe11]

Ok ok so squats are needed (blah) can they be done at the end of the workout so when I feel like shit after I can just go home?

 

[get456]

you'll feel even worse (and wont be doing much weight) if you do them at the end.

 

[pentatonic]

Quit being a puss and just do it. You sound like a chic.

 

[bigred133]

stay away from those machines and learn how to do full Olympic back squats.

here is a book with 30 pages about how to squat
http://startingstrength.com

here is a post about how to squat
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332299

this site has a good olympic squat video:
http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm

see the training information vault sticky for some good programs
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484815

you could start by looking into the Starr/Pendlay/Rippetoe 5x5 programs. The beginner program will improve your squat more than you thought possible.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

ETA: Don't be a pussy!

 

[ben dovergurl]

man up...

 

[solidspine]

Those machines are for chicks


Do Front Squats.

 

[Syringe11]

stay away from those machines and learn how to do full Olympic back squats.

here is a book with 30 pages about how to squat
http://startingstrength.com

here is a post about how to squat
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332299

this site has a good olympic squat video:
http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm

see the training information vault sticky for some good programs
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484815

you could start by looking into the Starr/Pendlay/Rippetoe 5x5 programs. The beginner program will improve your squat more than you thought possible.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

ETA: Don't be a pussy!

Hey thanks for all that info red..I guess im done with the hack squat and i'll start using the bar again (had some balance issues) why does everybody think its cool to push till your ready to hug a toilet..I mean maybe it wouldnt be such a big deal if you felt like that at the end of your workout but were talking 2nd excercise here.

 

[52_21_30]

Lol I just realized im only looking for the answer I wanna hear but i'll ask anyway...

Can I build strong,solid,muscular legs without squats or leg presses involved in my routine?

Im asking because im seriously tired of feeling like im going to puke after being on the hack squat machine/leg press and when I feel like that I cant finish the rest of my workout so im wondering if I can do the same job by just doing leg extensions,hamstring machine,maybe some lunges and the regular stuff for calves,abductor,adductor

Bro just so you know, amongst hardcore trainers, shying away from squats is like insulting their mother. Squats and leg presses are absolutely necessary for overall leg development. For most it's overkill, but I've been doing Gustavo Badell's leg workout for a while now, and I've never had such an explosion of mass and detail. It's very advanced, and you should work up to it, but here's my modified version:

5 sets leg extensions (2 are "warm-ups")
4 sets front squats (my favorite exercise)
4 sets traditional squats (NO Smith machine, free-standing only)
4 sets hack squats
4 sets leg presses
4 sets lying leg curl
4 sets standing leg curl
3 sets walking lunges (I substitute stiff-legged deadlifts for these)

FWIW, front squats are amazing. My body structure is such that I can go much deeper (below parallel) with front squats, and if you do them properly, you'll notice the stress is targetted at your quads and hams, and less so towards your ass. You can play around with the order, number, and reps of exercises, but I do it this way because I prefer to do the free-standing movements first when I have the most balance and concentration.

Anyway, hope this helped a bit...Good luck!!

Oh and one more thing...You can be sure that in bodybuilding, as in life, if something is easy and/or pleasant, it's not going to get you anywhere.

 

[Mrpumped]

you'll feel even worse (and wont be doing much weight) if you do them at the end.

That's not true. I've tried hundreds of different ways to do legs to keep myself from being bored and I am actually better warmed up and ready for the heavy poundages after extensions and presses. If i do them first or last, I still get six plates on each side for 2-3 reps.

 

[52_21_30]

FWIW, I used to train legs powerlifting style, with working sets of no more than 6 reps, with HEAVY poundages. I got great size, but even when dieting, i had just above average detail. I now squat no more than 315, but it's for no less than 15 reps. I front squat 12-15 reps, and leg press 15 reps. Poundages are still what most would call heavy, but I've found, at least for me, that such a large muscle needs a balanced attack of FULL range of motion, appropriate weight, and lots of reps (blood volume principle).

Just my take on it...

 

[get456]

That's not true. I've tried hundreds of different ways to do legs to keep myself from being bored and I am actually better warmed up and ready for the heavy poundages after extensions and presses. If i do them first or last, I still get six plates on each side for 2-3 reps.

it is a physical impossibility that you are able to do the exact same squat workout AFTER a full session of extensions and presses, that you can do before that other work.

If that is the case, then you are not working as hard when you do squats first as you could work.

Not saying thats a bad thing, but the fact is considering the stress that Real squatting puts on your body, you cannot do the same work at the end of 2 (in your case 2) other working movements... especially a full 3-4 sets of Heavy Leg presses.

I can understand how you would say that if the presses and leg extensions are more warm up type weights for you, and then you move to squats... but not if they are real working sets.

 

[al420]

it is a physical impossibility that you are able to do the exact same squat workout AFTER a full session of extensions and presses, that you can do before that other work.

If that is the case, then you are not working as hard when you do squats first as you could work.

Not saying thats a bad thing, but the fact is considering the stress that Real squatting puts on your body, you cannot do the same work at the end of 2 (in your case 2) other working movements... especially a full 3-4 sets of Heavy Leg presses.

I can understand how you would say that if the presses and leg extensions are more warm up type weights for you, and then you move to squats... but not if they are real working sets.

For me I have to really prime the pumps to be ready to train. I do Back Squats on Monday and Friday and Fronts or Overhead on Wednesdays so I stay fairly tight. I typically put 4 plates per side on the leg press and do 20 reps before I even think about walking to the rack. This is after doing about 20 min of RC work and riding the bike for 5-10 minutes. Seems like as I age it gets harder and harder to get loose - but it keeps the injuries at bay IMO.

On to size.... I agree that Heavy Back Squats are what build size. 52_21_30 has a good point as well, but until you are squatting some seroius weight I would stick to the 5 rep range and focus on training the actual lift. It's funny how fast someone can blow their legs up if they are doing DEEP squats w/ good form.

 

[52_21_30]

For me I have to really prime the pumps to be ready to train. I do Back Squats on Monday and Friday and Fronts or Overhead on Wednesdays so I stay fairly tight. I typically put 4 plates per side on the leg press and do 20 reps before I even think about walking to the rack. This is after doing about 20 min of RC work and riding the bike for 5-10 minutes. Seems like as I age it gets harder and harder to get loose - but it keeps the injuries at bay IMO.

On to size.... I agree that Heavy Back Squats are what build size. 52_21_30 has a good point as well, but until you are squatting some seroius weight I would stick to the 5 rep range and focus on training the actual lift. It's funny how fast someone can blow their legs up if they are doing DEEP squats w/ good form.

Well said...I was doing 405 for 6 quality reps in high school, and can still bang out a few reps (admittedly not very deep, maybe hit parallel) with 6 plates, but I rarely do. I like to go deep and explode up with as perfect form as I can manage. And I totally agree on the warm up. I'm still young and I do cardio year round so my CV system gets the blood surrounding the knees nice and full after 5-6 sets of extensions, then I'm ready to go. I just cant imagine how guys walk into the gym and get under the rack to start, even with just 135. Even if I squat down to pick something up without a warm up all I hear is popping in my knees. I need that blood volume in there. It's a nice, solid cushion for the weight to attack.

 

[get456]

. Even if I squat down to pick something up without a warm up all I hear is popping in my knees. I need that blood volume in there. It's a nice, solid cushion for the weight to attack.

lol me too and im sure im younger than you and working with much lighter weights!




AL- getting a good pump, and getting the blood flowing is a lot different than tossing 20 plates on a leg press machine and doing a hard 8 reps over the course of 3-4 sets, plus leg ext or whatever other ancillary work... i think u can agree if you are busting your ass on the leg press, doing some SLDL's etc, your squat aint gonna be 100%

 

[Syringe11]

Wow this thread really took on a life of its own..O well I got what I needed from it....carry on

 

[omega529]

I find that I grow better all over when I incorporate squats into my leg routine. Dunno the scientific reason for this (if there is one) but it seems to be true.

Legs Increase test levels.............Their the scientific reason. Easy huh?

 

[al420]

lol me too and im sure im younger than you and working with much lighter weights!




AL- getting a good pump, and getting the blood flowing is a lot different than tossing 20 plates on a leg press machine and doing a hard 8 reps over the course of 3-4 sets, plus leg ext or whatever other ancillary work... i think u can agree if you are busting your ass on the leg press, doing some SLDL's etc, your squat aint gonna be 100%

Totally agree. My MAIN goal in the gym is to increase my back squat, dead lift, and bench press so I a firm on where I place them in a training session - if I want my squat to go up it is my first lift (after my massive warm up!)

I really think going balls deep is the key to get your quad strength to it's max potential (don't let your knee's be brakes - let your hips). All lifts done at a full ROM are always better than anything else for all aspects - strength training or BB IMO. I watch Lee Priest do back squats and although his legs size and length make the ROM look pretty small he goes down as far as the good lord allows - his legs are a site.

52_21_30 - 315x15 is sick. Your legs must be massive. Is that the top set? Fuck, I can barely get 20 w/ 225 and that is a b r e a t h i n g 20 bro!

 

[52_21_30]

Totally agree. My MAIN goal in the gym is to increase my back squat, dead lift, and bench press so I a firm on where I place them in a training session - if I want my squat to go up it is my first lift (after my massive warm up!)

I really think going balls deep is the key to get your quad strength to it's max potential (don't let your knee's be brakes - let your hips). All lifts done at a full ROM are always better than anything else for all aspects - strength training or BB IMO. I watch Lee Priest do back squats and although his legs size and length make the ROM look pretty small he goes down as far as the good lord allows - his legs are a site.

52_21_30 - 315x15 is sick. Your legs must be massive. Is that the top set? Fuck, I can barely get 20 w/ 225 and that is a b r e a t h i n g 20 bro!

Yeah 315 x 15 is def a top set. And I have vommitted a handful of times from it.

 

[Mrpumped]

it is a physical impossibility that you are able to do the exact same squat workout AFTER a full session of extensions and presses, that you can do before that other work.

If that is the case, then you are not working as hard when you do squats first as you could work.

Not saying thats a bad thing, but the fact is considering the stress that Real squatting puts on your body, you cannot do the same work at the end of 2 (in your case 2) other working movements... especially a full 3-4 sets of Heavy Leg presses.

I can understand how you would say that if the presses and leg extensions are more warm up type weights for you, and then you move to squats... but not if they are real working sets.

No, It's not a physical imposibility. When my legs are fresh I have to do at least 5-6 warm up sets before my knees are warmed up and ready for heavy squating. So instead of wasting time doing warm-up sets I do my extensions and presses first. I can sit here and say whatever and just bullshit, but I'm not that type of person. I love leg day; it's my favorite workout of the week. I think that because of always going as heavy as I could, I might of wore out my knees and hips a bit. So I honestly feel much better doing squats last and I am as strong doing them last as when I do them first. Either way, I puke or get close to puking at the end of every leg workout.

 

[get456]

No, It's not a physical imposibility. When my legs are fresh I have to do at least 5-6 warm up sets before my knees are warmed up and ready for heavy squating. So instead of wasting time doing warm-up sets I do my extensions and presses first. I can sit here and say whatever and just bullshit, but I'm not that type of person. I love leg day; it's my favorite workout of the week. I think that because of always going as heavy as I could, I might of wore out my knees and hips a bit. So I honestly feel much better doing squats last and I am as strong doing them last as when I do them first. Either way, I puke or get close to puking at the end of every leg workout.

I think we are both saying the same thing

 

[52_21_30]

No, It's not a physical imposibility. When my legs are fresh I have to do at least 5-6 warm up sets before my knees are warmed up and ready for heavy squating. So instead of wasting time doing warm-up sets I do my extensions and presses first. I can sit here and say whatever and just bullshit, but I'm not that type of person. I love leg day; it's my favorite workout of the week. I think that because of always going as heavy as I could, I might of wore out my knees and hips a bit. So I honestly feel much better doing squats last and I am as strong doing them last as when I do them first. Either way, I puke or get close to puking at the end of every leg workout.

You guys are surely making valid points. The only reason squats are my first real working movement after extensions is because I train legs with hi volume, and hi reps. If I squatted at the end of my sessions my legs would b so pumped I would not have the balance to do free-standing squats without the possibility of losing my balance.

 

[DiamondCutCows]

Ok ok so squats are needed (blah) can they be done at the end of the workout so when I feel like shit after I can just go home?

Just lower the intensity till you get used to it. Start at a weight that's too light and work your way in little increments. 4 weeks down the line you should be "comfortable" lifting what you're capable of and ready to start setting some PRs

 

[Mrpumped]

You guys are surely making valid points. The only reason squats are my first real working movement after extensions is because I train legs with hi volume, and hi reps. If I squatted at the end of my sessions my legs would b so pumped I would not have the balance to do free-standing squats without the possibility of losing my balance.

Good point. You must have fun trying to walk out of the gym after a high rep leg day.

 

[52_21_30]

Good point. You must have fun trying to walk out of the gym after a high rep leg day.

I usually just sit down and have my shake for 10 - 15 mins before I leave. Even then, it's a trip