Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Legion Kreinak2
New member
I was wondering when the best time to consume my protein powder would be? I know post-workout, but when else can I incorporate it into my day? I was thinking in the morning, and before bed... is it good to have before bed?
Key Time For Protein?
- Thread starter Legion Kreinak2
- Start date
Pre-workout is a better time to take it.
I assume you mean whey, right? See this article about protein timing and anabolism:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/bedtime.htm
I found that really helpful.
-Calkid
I assume you mean whey, right? See this article about protein timing and anabolism:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/bedtime.htm
I found that really helpful.
-Calkid
Legion Kreinak2
New member
Interesting... so from what I understand, you can't halt the catabolism that occurs during sleep after you're four hours in (assuming you had some whey protein with milk before bed) without disturbing you in your period of rest, which could thusly hinder gains.
I always have 2 glasses of milk (1%) with every protein shake I have. This means I get 16 grams of my protein from milk, and 44 from my whey protein powder. That'd 60 grams. If 80% of milk protein is casein, then 12.8 grams of protein in milk is casein. He claims 30 grams to be adequate, so I can always have a bit more milk if necessary.
I figure I was doing it right without knowing it. I'm a little shady still on when I should have shakes besides post-workout, before bed... perhaps I should take one pre-workout (as you suggested, Casual) and another post-workout? That would be 180 grams of protein from my protein shakes daily. At $1 a shake for me, that's $3/day... and he said he's seen shakes for 50 grams of protein on the market for $5-7...
Wow, Optimum Nutrition's protein is fuckin' good shit. Cost-effective, tastes AMAZING, has 2.5 grams of glutamine/serving (5 grams is a typical glutamine serving, thus making buying the actual supplement useless for the most past, though I'm sure someone will have something to say about that) and... yeah, I love it.
When does everyone else take their protein shakes? Now that I read that stuff about how long it takes the whey protein to start digesting, I'm thinking it may be best to consume the shake before my workout. Besides, on DC trainingmy workouts last between 34-53 minutes everytime...
I always have 2 glasses of milk (1%) with every protein shake I have. This means I get 16 grams of my protein from milk, and 44 from my whey protein powder. That'd 60 grams. If 80% of milk protein is casein, then 12.8 grams of protein in milk is casein. He claims 30 grams to be adequate, so I can always have a bit more milk if necessary.
I figure I was doing it right without knowing it. I'm a little shady still on when I should have shakes besides post-workout, before bed... perhaps I should take one pre-workout (as you suggested, Casual) and another post-workout? That would be 180 grams of protein from my protein shakes daily. At $1 a shake for me, that's $3/day... and he said he's seen shakes for 50 grams of protein on the market for $5-7...
Wow, Optimum Nutrition's protein is fuckin' good shit. Cost-effective, tastes AMAZING, has 2.5 grams of glutamine/serving (5 grams is a typical glutamine serving, thus making buying the actual supplement useless for the most past, though I'm sure someone will have something to say about that) and... yeah, I love it.
When does everyone else take their protein shakes? Now that I read that stuff about how long it takes the whey protein to start digesting, I'm thinking it may be best to consume the shake before my workout. Besides, on DC trainingmy workouts last between 34-53 minutes everytime...
gmanlax7
New member
so you want to have your postworkout shake preworkout ? I think your over thinking this one. The time throughout the day of shakes ( besides the postworkout one) isn't important realy, as long as you are getting enough protein, whatever the source. People drink shakes because they are quick and convenient, not because they are superior. If your just sitting around the house, skip the shake and have some meat
Dirty Workout
New member
I try to just continuously pound my body with protein from food, shakes, and bars all day usually 7 meals.
I mean as far as I knew muscle repair doesnt just occur in the few hours post workout, but the next couple of days as well
I mean as far as I knew muscle repair doesnt just occur in the few hours post workout, but the next couple of days as well
vinylgroover
New member
Post workout have some carbs before throwing down your protein
I don't quite agree with pre-workout protein shake. Man, that wouldn't sit too well on my belly if I drank it beforehand.
Lately I've been hitting 1 scoop optimum 100%w/milk in the morn after I get up and have a bowl of raisin bran or poptarts or somethin like that.
Then, immediately after liftin I hit at least 2 if not 3 scoops of optimum w/milk again.
I *think* that postworkout is still ideal for your shake. Your muscles/cells are screamin for nutrients protein at that time. I wouldn't discount the need for sugars/carbs afterworkout...but I just haven't seen the science to support that.
Lately I've been hitting 1 scoop optimum 100%w/milk in the morn after I get up and have a bowl of raisin bran or poptarts or somethin like that.
Then, immediately after liftin I hit at least 2 if not 3 scoops of optimum w/milk again.
I *think* that postworkout is still ideal for your shake. Your muscles/cells are screamin for nutrients protein at that time. I wouldn't discount the need for sugars/carbs afterworkout...but I just haven't seen the science to support that.
Right, well 2 or 3 scoops is a lot! It really would benefit you more to do one or two scoop before and then a meal afterwards.
Why? I may seem like a study-quoting whore, but...
Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.
Basically the pre-workout amino-acid consumption groups experienced 2.5 times the protein uptake of the POST group. Here's a nifty little graph which shows the total amount of phenylalanine observed, the indicator of amino acid uptake:
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/vol281/issue2/images/medium/h10810439004.gif
I hope this clears up the workout protein timing issue.
Edit: for drifter
-->http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/2/E197
-casualbb
Last edited:
I still don't have enough to info to change my mind. For one that is only one article, and doesn't give enough info. Plus the link you gave us just lead to the graph and not the whole article I am curious if they chose different times of the day when then tested before the workout and if it makes a difference. I'm sure if you were working out in the morning and only had a shake before the workout you might absorb more. But what if someone works out later at night when they have already been feeding all day and how much of a difference that would make on their absorption.
I am curious if they chose different times of the day when then tested before the workout and if it makes a difference. I'm sure if you were working out in the morning and only had a shake before the workout you might absorb more. But what if someone works out later at night when they have already been feeding all day and how much of a difference that would make on their absorption.Legion Kreinak2
New member
Well if you can afford it, why not be better safe than sorry and have a shake before and after?
epimetheus
New member
Casualbb- You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
You could write a full length novel describing the biochemistry involved in digestion, post 3,000 studies for pre-workout shakes efficency and rail on and on about the benifits of such and more than likely it wouldn't even get read. Or it would be dismissed.
You see, Pro-bodybuilders are their Idols and bodybuilding magazines are their holy scripture. If they say that post workout shakes are best, then by all that is holy, there is no convincing them. After all, you can't believe everything on the internet, but you should believe blindly anything a magazine with a half naked guy with bulging muscles on the cover says. How do we know that guy really has his PhD? Yeah right, he is probably some fat guy that just uses big words to confuse people with sophistry. He really has no idea what he is talking about.
You could write a full length novel describing the biochemistry involved in digestion, post 3,000 studies for pre-workout shakes efficency and rail on and on about the benifits of such and more than likely it wouldn't even get read. Or it would be dismissed.
You see, Pro-bodybuilders are their Idols and bodybuilding magazines are their holy scripture. If they say that post workout shakes are best, then by all that is holy, there is no convincing them. After all, you can't believe everything on the internet, but you should believe blindly anything a magazine with a half naked guy with bulging muscles on the cover says. How do we know that guy really has his PhD? Yeah right, he is probably some fat guy that just uses big words to confuse people with sophistry. He really has no idea what he is talking about.
Thaibox
New member
Ideally, it's a little protein before and a shit load post-lift.
Casualbb, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take your protein pre-workout, then eat a meal after. The protein shake will be utilized much faster and more efficiently than food will be, and thats what you want post workout. Also, you need to take in enough carbs to get the desired insulin spike to assist with the protein, and doing this pre-workout would be counterproductive to that. All day is important, but I think the other important times are upon awaking and before bed.
LK2, to solve the night-time protein problem, go buy slower protein. You can get a powder with casein, milk, soy, etc for pretty cheap. I use to keep a case of pre-made shakes next to my bed. I'd wake up every night to piss and I'd drink one of those on my way to do it.
Casualbb, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take your protein pre-workout, then eat a meal after. The protein shake will be utilized much faster and more efficiently than food will be, and thats what you want post workout. Also, you need to take in enough carbs to get the desired insulin spike to assist with the protein, and doing this pre-workout would be counterproductive to that. All day is important, but I think the other important times are upon awaking and before bed.
LK2, to solve the night-time protein problem, go buy slower protein. You can get a powder with casein, milk, soy, etc for pretty cheap. I use to keep a case of pre-made shakes next to my bed. I'd wake up every night to piss and I'd drink one of those on my way to do it.
louden_swain
New member
It is important to hit all protein windows throughout the day. I personally recommend that a person ingest protein every two hours. This will keep a constant supply of amino acids in the body that can be used for manufacturing muscle. It is common for me to eat 75 grams of protein after a workout, then an additional 30 grams 2 hours later.
That's become quite apparent to me.Okay. When you drink whey, it takes 1 hour for the amino acid levels in the blood to spike. Most people here are into short workouts (for good reason; they prevent excessive catabolism). So when you have a 45-60 minute workout and drink your whey BEFORE, BOOM the spike coincides with the instant your muscles need the protein the most badly. If you take it afterwards, your muscles are left waiting for an hour before they really get the protein.
-casualbb
I see what you are saying and it does make sense, do you have any more info on this?
Epimetheus, you are right in that some people won't listen to anything if it's opposed to what they think. And yes, some people can't be bothered reading long involved articles. It's nice to see in your infinite wisdom that you are painting everyone with the same brush.
Epimetheus, you are right in that some people won't listen to anything if it's opposed to what they think. And yes, some people can't be bothered reading long involved articles. It's nice to see in your infinite wisdom that you are painting everyone with the same brush.
a great discussion here...
A few times I've eaten a meal after workout instead of my shake.
To me, the shake postworkout seems better than a meal. I guess it's faster acting. When I hit the heavy shakes, I also take some ginger root to help.
Drink my shake after liftin...then 1-1.5hours later...eat a meal.
It's what works for me.
A few times I've eaten a meal after workout instead of my shake.
To me, the shake postworkout seems better than a meal. I guess it's faster acting. When I hit the heavy shakes, I also take some ginger root to help.
Drink my shake after liftin...then 1-1.5hours later...eat a meal.
It's what works for me.
Legion Kreinak2
New member
I'd say it makes sense to ingest whey protein pre-workout, and then again post-workout. If it really takes an hour for amino acid levels to peak in your blood after ingesting whey, then it'd be most beneficial to have a shake pre-workout, and then about half an hour to an hour post-workout. Just my thoughts. Hell, look it can't hurt, right?
Legion Kreinak2
New member
I was thinking 30-minutes before a workout.
S
satchboogie
Guest
CASUALBB........
exellent reference to that night protein intake article.
much thanks.
karma coming to you right now!
exellent reference to that night protein intake article.
much thanks.
karma coming to you right now!
Thanks dude. I'm just trying to get people to question things, such as the established way to ingest protein.
To Drifter: here's a nifty article on pre/post exercise nutrition:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hsn_artcls_prepostnutri.html
-casualbb
To Drifter: here's a nifty article on pre/post exercise nutrition:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hsn_artcls_prepostnutri.html
-casualbb
Thanks for the link, it was a good article. I'm always a little nervous when I see an article like that on a website that sells products but I won't discount it based on that fact either. Looks like I will have to do some more reading on this subject.
Don't get me wrong about my earlier posts. I'm always looking for new information and am willing to restructure my beliefs as long as there is enough info to support such a change.
Don't get me wrong about my earlier posts. I'm always looking for new information and am willing to restructure my beliefs as long as there is enough info to support such a change.
Thaibox
New member
Whoa....wait a minute
I didn't think people would accept your pre-workout theory so I didn't say much. Before people begin to do this I must say that you're wrong casualbb. Whey protein is soluble...therefore going through the small intestine and being consumed by enzymes very fast. Post workout, when you're experiencing an increase in insulin, IGF, and GH(along with a high consumption of carbs) is when you want the aminos to begin their availability.
The point about protein being "spiked" in an hour is BS. The aminos are available very quickly, and the utilization "spike" happens when the aforementioned hormones are at their highest levels(almost immediately after training).
Pre-workout protein = bad idea
Not to mention, like gman said....who could squat on a huge chocolate shake without spewing for sure?
I didn't think people would accept your pre-workout theory so I didn't say much. Before people begin to do this I must say that you're wrong casualbb. Whey protein is soluble...therefore going through the small intestine and being consumed by enzymes very fast. Post workout, when you're experiencing an increase in insulin, IGF, and GH(along with a high consumption of carbs) is when you want the aminos to begin their availability.
The point about protein being "spiked" in an hour is BS. The aminos are available very quickly, and the utilization "spike" happens when the aforementioned hormones are at their highest levels(almost immediately after training).
Pre-workout protein = bad idea
Not to mention, like gman said....who could squat on a huge chocolate shake without spewing for sure?
I would just like to clarify a little from what I have gathered so far. They are basically just saying it's a good idea to ingest a small amount (relatively speaking) of protein and carbs before a workout in addition to a post-workout meal. I think most of us are already eating/drinking something about an hour before working out so I can't see what the big deal is.
This may not be exactly what they are implying so correct me if I'm wrong.
This may not be exactly what they are implying so correct me if I'm wrong.
If you think I'm wrong, don't argue with me, argue with my application of the study quoted. Because this isn't just my opinion, it's an interpretation of the study.
The fact of the matter is that when protein is floating around during exercise, it will be taken up. Do you have any scientific backing for that statement?
-casualbb
The fact of the matter is that when protein is floating around during exercise, it will be taken up. Do you have any scientific backing for that statement?
-casualbb
collegiateLifter
New member
Drifter said:
VERY important IMO. berardi as well as the rest of supp authors often run circles around average lifters with bunches of info, some validly apllied and a lot of bullshit (massive eating is all theroy, not to mention the Surge hysteria as well as fallacies in the recent steroid roundtable). Like that link says "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" and nutrition authors use that to their advantage in most all articles in order to lead an audience. I therefore don't bother reading most any articles where the author may have direct financial interests related to his "information."
Thaibox
New member
This is a single study. I've learned not to try and debate someone who relies on a study dug up on the internet. If you look hard enough, you can find a study to support anything. I'll let you search for studies supporting my side. I promise you'll find an abundance of them. This is a basic practice that is and has been accepted for obvious reasons for a very long time.casualbb said:
WHen protein is "floating around" during exercise, it will not be well taken up. If you learn abou the state of the body during exercise you'll note that insulin production is virtually shut down for some time. Taking in the necessary large amount of post workout protein pre-workout will cause you to not use much of it for actual recovery.
Even if you're right and the pre-workout protein gets used during the workout, who cares? That's not when you want it or need it. The whole concept goes against logic.
More importantly, when your body needs the nutrients to recover post-lift, they won't all be there in adequate amounts. A big waste.
Drifter, he is implying that the main consumption of protein to be utilized post workout should be taken pre-workout. If you noticed in my first post, I said that a little pre-lift protein is good.
Sure it's a single study, but its whole goal is to isolate and study protein timing. Do you disagree with the way they did it? Think that their methods left some innaccuracy? If so, please say so. That 's the only way you can discount this study. In the medical world, one study is plenty as long as is clearly illustrates the point.
Yes I dug it up on the internet, but that's because I don't receive the American Journal of Physiology, the reputable journal that it was published in. How I found it does not diminish its credibility.
I looked out of curiosity and I can't find any. Even so, it's not my responsiblity to support your arguments.
This study clearly indicates that is incorrect. Here's another cute graph illustrating that:
That first little peak of protein synthesis occurs during the exercise.
How can you say we don't want protein in the muscles? The definition of muscle growth is that "protein in" is higher than "protein out."
Actually if you refer back to that graph, it shows that the post-workout peak of protein absorption is of similar magnitude in both the pre- and post- groups. So apparently more than enough whey is still in the system.
-casualbb
gmanlax7
New member
This is getting way to complicated.
Legion - have a good meal with both carbs and protein before you lift, when you have it depends on you and how you will feel. I have something an hour before at the latest, if i eat too much too soon i will feel slow, sluggish and unmotivated. If i feel I had my meal too far before my workout and im getting hungry up close to the workout, i have something small , like peanuts or a piece of toast with cottage cheese on it.
postworkout, have your shake as soon as you can.
do not worry about when you have your whey throughtout the day. whey is not the ultimate protein, its just a pretty good one and convenient.
shakes = convenience, quick
NOT better than steak, eggs, tuna, etc.
Legion - have a good meal with both carbs and protein before you lift, when you have it depends on you and how you will feel. I have something an hour before at the latest, if i eat too much too soon i will feel slow, sluggish and unmotivated. If i feel I had my meal too far before my workout and im getting hungry up close to the workout, i have something small , like peanuts or a piece of toast with cottage cheese on it.
postworkout, have your shake as soon as you can.
do not worry about when you have your whey throughtout the day. whey is not the ultimate protein, its just a pretty good one and convenient.
shakes = convenience, quick
NOT better than steak, eggs, tuna, etc.
