Isolation exercises - when?

[Jim Ouini]

So, my impression is that the majority of the board favors compound moves like squat-bench-dead for basic functional strength/size/efficiency (or maybe I just click on select threads )

Having been on the 5 x 5 for the past few months, I can't remember the last time I did an isolation exercise. Even when I was doing the 1 bodypart/week routine the only ones I did were bicep curls, tricep extensions, maybe a set of cable fly's to 'finish' lol

So before denouncing them altogether, I'm wondering if isolation exercises have a place in a non-competitive bodybuilders routine, and if so, where in a program would one fit it in - to bring up some weak muscles/correct muscle imbalances? just to get some volume in (I think the DFHT has some isolation stuff that gets cut out during deloading phase, if I read it right)? Just for fun?

 

[Guinness5.0]

Personally I'm not totally against curls, lateral raises, calf raises, and a couple others but, particularaly as it relates to my current goals, their functions can be better addressed by systematic overload.

IOW, they just get in the way.

But if delt width is lacking, or the arms look a tad deflated, I think they can still be valuable.

 

[Tweakle]

I think iso work is essential, just not the amount most people do... and there's no need to do more than one iso exercise per bodypart imo (not like the pec dec, flye, crossover chest workouts so many people do)

if I dont do iso work for my arms they look small and flat, even if I'm rowing/benching 4 plates for reps... the whole 'squat to get big arms' misses the point too, adding 100lbs to my squat didnt add an inch to my arms - it might have potentiated anohter inch if I'd trained the arms as hard as my legs tho

 

[majutsu]

If muscle mass is your goal. If functional strength is your goal, then isolation exercises are not helpful. The isolation movements are not neurologically wired into useful human dynamic movements, such as those required in sport. Occasionally you can use isolation movements to beef up a muscle critical for functional strength, like tris or hams, then convert the extra beef into new sports power through a heavy, low-rep compound phase. But even then, the most successful movements for this kind of isolation-to-power transition mimic parts of the compound lifts (e.g. rack lockouts more power-convertible tri work than pushdowns). Pure isolation movements are usually aesthetic. I like to buff up my shoulders and bis with isolation work for the ladies

 

[anthrax]

For rehab?

 

[Guinness5.0]

if I dont do iso work for my arms they look small and flat, even if I'm rowing/benching 4 plates for reps... the whole 'squat to get big arms' misses the point too, adding 100lbs to my squat didnt add an inch to my arms - it might have potentiated anohter inch if I'd trained the arms as hard as my legs tho

It gets to be too black or white. I think the truth behind it is that if you've been ignoring/undertraining legs, then you hit 'em hard with squats and whatnot, it reduces the imbalance b/t bodyparts and creates a situation where the entire body is likely to respond to stimulus. Once things "even out" your arms will begin to grow again. Oversimplified but that's my rudimentary understanding of the "squat for arms" theory. Agree?

 

[anthrax]

It gets to be too black or white. I think the truth behind it is that if you've been ignoring/undertraining legs, then you hit 'em hard with squats and whatnot, it reduces the imbalance b/t bodyparts and creates a situation where the entire body is likely to respond to stimulus. Once things "even out" your arms will begin to grow again. Oversimplified but that's my rudimentary understanding of the "squat for arms" theory. Agree?

I'd rather say it's the anabolic/testosterone response to squat that helps other muscle groups

 

[Guinness5.0]

I'd rather say it's the anabolic/testosterone response to squat that helps other muscle groups

I've heard varying reports on just how much of an effect there is. Some say it's huge, some say it's overstated. I tend to think test production is increased based on my recent training- I've got more "backne" now than when I started 5x5. Obviously this is far from conclusive but I suppose it could mean something is going on...

 

[Jim Ouini]

Thanks for the replies. I guess that's what I was after - iso exercises are primarily for aesthetics, and don't really assist in functional movement e.g, leg curls for squats, tricep extensions for bench...

For rehab?

I was thinking that too, although 'functionally' it doesn't seem that it would transfer over very well (see above).

 

[Tom Treutlein]

The boost in test levels from squats is nominal.

Isolation exercises have their place. Firstly, they can be useful in bringing up weak points, which is how a lot of powerlifters and strongmen use them. Secondly, they can be used to induce microtrauma into muscles that get very little stimulus from compound lifts.

Overall, I agree that compound lifts will drive things more than anything else, but isolation work has its place. The calves don't get hit by any compound lifts, aside from maybe olympic lifts that might involve you going up onto your toes at the top of the movement, if they even have those.

 

[Avo]

Iso excercises are like the icing on a cake. For example i work heavy on my back w/ compound movements and afterwards do 3 sets of seated incline curls. Before i used to do over 6 sets of different curls. But ever since i started to concentrate on compound movements and do a couple iso sets afterwards, I've really seen a major change in bicep size.

just my .02

-Avo