Is "time on=time off" really necessary?

[Nighthawkk]

I just finished a 12-week cycle at moderate doses (enanth/deca/dbol, followed by prop/winny/tren). PCT is in progress and will last about a month, but I have a feeling I won't be wanting to wait another 3 months before getting myself into another cycle. If my bloodwork shows everything to be within normal ranges after PCT, would it be considered safe to start another cycle a few weeks from that time (overall time off would be 6-8 weeks, rather than a full 12)?

 

[The_Eviscerator]

I just finished a 12-week cycle at moderate doses (enanth/deca/dbol, followed by prop/winny/tren). PCT is in progress and will last about a month, but I have a feeling I won't be wanting to wait another 3 months before getting myself into another cycle. If my bloodwork shows everything to be within normal ranges after PCT, would it be considered safe to start another cycle a few weeks from that time (overall time off would be 6-8 weeks, rather than a full 12)?

If your blood work is OK. Then I see no reason to worry.

I have changed my whole cycling protocol. From now on I will never go more than 6 weeks (unless preparing for a show) and I will take 10 weeks off between cycles. Health is not much of an issue if you follow this program.

 

[muscleup]

Bloodwork is key

I have a close friend who styas on 10 months a year, and has 2 months of recovery....Bloodwork puts him in the 500+ range after 2 months of recovery...

 

[tboy72]

Bloodwork is key

I have a close friend who styas on 10 months a year, and has 2 months of recovery....Bloodwork puts him in the 500+ range after 2 months of recovery...

very nice....whats there pct look like?

 

[Latamier]

Never had a problem with blood work post cycle. Average cycle for me is no less than 6 months. I may stay off cycle for 4-6 weeks but even then will bridge with 10mg dbol per day.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I hate posts like this.

 

[muscleup]

very nice....whats there pct look like?

Hcg last 10 days of cycle
clomid for 21 days @50mgs per day

 

[Largepaws]

what kind of doses do you typically run in your 6week cycles eviscerator???

 

[Dial_tone]

I hate posts like this.

me too.

 

[psychedout]

me too.

Me three.

I don't quite understand how lipids can come back normal after a 10 monther though.

 

[muscleup]

His lipids were not a problem

 

[Nighthawkk]

First off...for you guys that "hate" posts like this, don't waste your time and energy posting on this thread if it bothers you that much. We are here to learn from each other, and those comments do not help in any way. On a more serious note...Latamier you mentioned you are on ten months at a time- do you use HCG frequently for the duration of the cycle?

 

[tboy72]

what part of the thread do you hate? i did get a good answer........if there test tested that high post cycle i would like to know what type of pct he ran......unless theres another part of the thread you dont like?

 

[Bulldog_10]

what part of the thread do you hate? i did get a good answer........if there test tested that high post cycle i would like to know what type of pct he ran......unless theres another part of the thread you dont like?

Here's what I don't like about it:

Just because your blood work says your shit is back to normal, WHY does that mean it's ok to throw it out of whack again? Who was the genius that decided this was healthy? The fact is, it is not healthy...and every time this question is asked (quite often) the same answers come up...and the falacies are perpetuated.

There's a reason your body returns to homeostasis after your cycles, that's where it wants to be. It wants to be stable. So as soon as it becomes stable, people think it's ok to destabilize it again under the false pretense that it is healthier that way. Fluctuations such as these are not healthy as much as people want to believe that it is good for you.

People are just gonna keep telling themselves as long as their bloodwork is ok, they can fuck it up again because that's what they want to believe, it's easier that way.

Personally, I don't see the need to live cycle to cycle. Gains can be made naturally, and when you hit a plateau, there are ways around it. And when you've exhausted all options to get around a plateau, hit the sauce. Then come off the sauce and start over again. I find it hard to believe that 6-8 weeks after a 12-week cycle it is already possible that gains have ceased permanently, making another cycle the safest option available to make more gains.

I don't know what else to say...but I see alot of people thinking along these lines...and it's just gonna lead to a downward spiral, eventually leading to HRT, and it doesn't need to be that way.

Just my 2 cents...Listen if you want.

 

[Juice Authority]

Here's what I don't like about it:

Just because your blood work says your shit is back to normal, WHY does that mean it's ok to throw it out of whack again? Who was the genius that decided this was healthy? The fact is, it is not healthy...and every time this question is asked (quite often) the same answers come up...and the falacies are perpetuated.

There's a reason your body returns to homeostasis after your cycles, that's where it wants to be. It wants to be stable. So as soon as it becomes stable, people think it's ok to destabilize it again under the false pretense that it is healthier that way. Fluctuations such as these are not healthy as much as people want to believe that it is good for you.

People are just gonna keep telling themselves as long as their bloodwork is ok, they can fuck it up again because that's what they want to believe, it's easier that way.

Personally, I don't see the need to live cycle to cycle. Gains can be made naturally, and when you hit a plateau, there are ways around it. And when you've exhausted all options to get around a plateau, hit the sauce. Then come off the sauce and start over again. I find it hard to believe that 6-8 weeks after a 12-week cycle it is already possible that gains have ceased permanently, making another cycle the safest option available to make more gains.

I don't know what else to say...but I see alot of people thinking along these lines...and it's just gonna lead to a downward spiral, eventually leading to HRT, and it doesn't need to be that way.

Just my 2 cents...Listen if you want.

Very good points bro especially about the body's natural desire to return to homeostatis. That's definitely a different slant on things. What that said, post up your cycling ideology. You touched on it briefly in your post regarding getting past plateaus but how long do you typically run your cycles and how long do you stay off? Is HRT such a bad thing? There are a lot of ppl on this board doing HRT. With the proper supplementation and diet what's the downside to HRT in your opinion?

 

[Dial_tone]

What I hate about these threads is the knuckleheads that seem to think HPTA is the only thing that needs a chance to return to normal function. You guys ever consider giving your liver and kidneys a break? potentially enlarged heart? Pro BBer's are dropping like flies yet everytime somebody on a board reports they've been on 6+ months every Tom, Dick & Harry wants to know what their cycle was. All too many of these long cycle guys never got their bloodwork done so who cares how they "feel". Everybody thinks they're different...they're invincible....it won't happen to them. Good luck to ya.

 

[chicagobuffedbod]

Good points are made about the liver and kidneys, I for one use cycles, I go for about 12 weeks, and take about 2 mos off. I'm not fooling myself in thinking that it's okay to do all of this. I think I am honest with myself, I know there are risks involved. However I have gotten liver enzyme work done and have had some urine samples done to check for any possible kidney issues. So far all within tolerable limits, oh and blood pressure is normal yet in the high portion of normal. Otherwise it is in the low portion of normal.

 

[big4rt]

Here's what I don't like about it:

Just because your blood work says your shit is back to normal, WHY does that mean it's ok to throw it out of whack again? Who was the genius that decided this was healthy? The fact is, it is not healthy...and every time this question is asked (quite often) the same answers come up...and the falacies are perpetuated.

There's a reason your body returns to homeostasis after your cycles, that's where it wants to be. It wants to be stable. So as soon as it becomes stable, people think it's ok to destabilize it again under the false pretense that it is healthier that way. Fluctuations such as these are not healthy as much as people want to believe that it is good for you.

People are just gonna keep telling themselves as long as their bloodwork is ok, they can fuck it up again because that's what they want to believe, it's easier that way.

Personally, I don't see the need to live cycle to cycle. Gains can be made naturally, and when you hit a plateau, there are ways around it. And when you've exhausted all options to get around a plateau, hit the sauce. Then come off the sauce and start over again. I find it hard to believe that 6-8 weeks after a 12-week cycle it is already possible that gains have ceased permanently, making another cycle the safest option available to make more gains.

I don't know what else to say...but I see alot of people thinking along these lines...and it's just gonna lead to a downward spiral, eventually leading to HRT, and it doesn't need to be that way.

Just my 2 cents...Listen if you want.

Exactly. Well put, and thank you for saying it. In the long run the chances increase that you will pay for it with your health. The only remotely viable reason for staying on (at least to me) is because you are being paid to look like that. There are some who accept the risk in exchange for the potential money they might earn. That's just my two cents, and I don't think it's worth it. On the other hand, I am an Army contractor who earns 6 figures working in combat zones in the middle east. I think that is worth it. Bottom line, what you think is good for you--do, but take heed from what others have to offer.

 

[muscleup]

What I hate about these threads is the knuckleheads that seem to think HPTA is the only thing that needs a chance to return to normal function. You guys ever consider giving your liver and kidneys a break? potentially enlarged heart? Pro BBer's are dropping like flies yet everytime somebody on a board reports they've been on 6+ months every Tom, Dick & Harry wants to know what their cycle was. All too many of these long cycle guys never got their bloodwork done so who cares how they "feel". Everybody thinks they're different...they're invincible....it won't happen to them. Good luck to ya.

well the person that I'm speaking of had EVERYTHING checked, and his liver enzymes and everything else were fine...So is this is the case...No lipid problems,recovered hpta,normal liver and kidney finction, what would be the probelm ???

 

[GoldenDelicious]

the body s a bit more complicated than just the blood levels of various hormones/electrolytes/lipids etc that are affected by aas use. a blood picture is just a snapshot of what is going on in the body from one angle. there is a whole lot you dont see from a blood picture.

now as dial_tone alluded to, there are some aspects of the human body which are affected by aas use which are not represented in a blood test. heart enlargement is an important example. furthermore he is spot on in his statement that many people guage their recovery by hpta alone, rather than looking at the body as a whole system.

anyway cut a long story short, lets say we are just going to go off blood work alone, an important concept that many people miss is this: just because your blood values are in the normal range DOES NOT MEAN that the tissue producing the hormones/substrates/whatever that you are measuring are back to normal.

lets take the testicular tissue for example. during a cycle, understimulation of the testicular tissue often leads to atrophy (with and without HCG). post cycle, after a period of X weeks, we observe a return to normal test levels, and most assume that the normal test levels mean that the tissue itself is back to normal. how do you know that this is truly the case? why, if this is true, do we see a net decrease in testicular mass and function over multpile cycles, with and wothout PCT? i would put forth the idea that the tissue is not fully recovered, and i would go further and say that it is probably a good idea to give a little extra time for your body to REMAIN at its natural equilibrium, and allow for as much normalisation (or tissue as well as hormones) to occur before going on a new cycle and throwing everything out of kilter again.

i could chat about this for a while. there are liver implications, kidney implications, cardiac implications, blood implications (blood is a tissue too)....and of course these effects flow on to affect the entire body.

i dont see the need to be on so many cycles, or for so long, that you are on more than half the time. and i certainly HATE the idea of "bridges". how big do you bastards want to get anyway?

anyway, good luck, gents

 

[slat1]

How about downgrading your receptors? No one seems to be mentioning that. I do time on= time off and I out grow everyone in the long run. It also allows me to see myself in a natural state... which helps with my mind set. Body Dismorphia can lead to a lot of problems. Being okay with what you look like when you are off is very important!

 

[Nighthawkk]

Some very good points have been made so far, thanks guys

 

[muscleup]

How about downgrading your receptors? No one seems to be mentioning that. I do time on= time off and I out grow everyone in the long run. It also allows me to see myself in a natural state... which helps with my mind set. Body Dismorphia can lead to a lot of problems. Being okay with what you look like when you are off is very important!

Now I think this is a good point.

 

[satchboogie]

its rather simple...

time off means you care about your body and recovery.
but if muscle is all you're after and you dont really care about long term affects of steroids, just stay on and grow like a weed.

i know its difficult mentally and physically.
but think of this.. what if there were no steroids in the world?
you'd be traning naturally!

 

[Cypptanon]

There are alot of times that even with proper pct your body will not recover unless you give it equal time off. I recently followed pct guidelines and my test was below the normal range ~7,8 weeks post a 16 week cycle.

The "fellas" had regained their size, but their test production was very low....79 to be exact - the low end of normal is 241!


Cyp