Is staying "dry" during PCT counterproductive?

[Vascular Freak]

I will be using HCG, Clomid, Nolva, and AIFM for PCT. Would recovery take longer if I were to use AIFM to keep bloat down? I understand that some estro is good during PCT, but is it possible to still keep the dry look that is acheived when estro is suppressed, and still fully restore endo test levels etc?

Also, when should proviron be stopped in relation to PCT?

 

[chestmaster1]

estrogen is definately not good during pct. When there is estrogen it tells your body to stop producing testosterone, so without estrogen your body will produce more testosterone so using aifm will help recovery. You should stop proviron when you start your pct because it is suppressive and would go against your pct

 

[Ulter]

No. The whole idea of using AIFM during PCT is to keep estrogen down. Your HPTA uses estrogen as the feedback to tell the testes to begin making test. It doesn't measure test. So if you have lower estrogen it reads that as you need more test and starts up your testes. Add Proviron anytime.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

estrogen is the primary suppressor of the HPGA.

 

[Stainless_Steel]

So letro would be really good for pct then, right. SInce it kills like 98% of estrogen.

 

[Silent Method]

Add Proviron anytime.

Anytime during PCT? No worry about supression?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

So letro would be really good for pct then, right. SInce it kills like 98% of estrogen.

yes and no. your estro levels are already dropping (less subtrate)- ratio is the issue (t/e). in the PCT area letro will tend to make you anestrous which can have other negative impacts. minimize (not eliminate) estrogen- it also has a role in HPGA modulation (not just suppression)

 

[Ulter]

Anytime during PCT? No worry about supression?

There is no supression from Proviron.

 

[Ulter]

estrogen is the primary suppressor of the HPGA.

Before you all run to the dictionary...
HPTA and HPGA are interchangable for men.

 

[Silent Method]

There is no supression from Proviron.

Can you direct me to evidence and/or explain this?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

whether there is suppression is debatable, if there is its likely minimal.

Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8. Links
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

 

[Ulter]

Can you direct me to evidence and/or explain this?

Proviron doesn't bind to the AR in the testes or muscle. That's why it doesn't cause growth or lower test. It binds in the brain. This is theory based on clinical findings in studies there were not designed to come to this conclusion. It was just observed. If I get adventurous I'll look it up. Bill Roberts wrote about it a couple years ago.

 

[Silent Method]

LOVELY! Thank you - proviron has been solidified as one of my top 5 favorite drugs now!