Is ADHD complete bullshit? I've learned some things lately....

[RottenWillow]

I've recently read a book by a psychologist that opened my eyes to a lot of issues about which I've been suspicious for a few years now.

For those who dont know, ADHD is the abbreviation for a psychological disorder called Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. Until 1980 the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders defined ADHD as basically a behavorial problem. Then beginning in the early '80's there was a fundamental paradigm shift. Authors began to argue ADHD was disease, that there was some abnormality in the brains of these inattentive, misbehaving children that caused them to behave the way they did.

some facts I discovered just recently:

1)the research conducted by these authors arguing the disease model has been almost entirely funded by the manufacturers of the amphetamines used to treat ADHD, named Ritalin, Adderal, etc.
2)even after 20+ years, over a dozen studies and several million dollars, none of this research has been able to uncover the mysterious brain abnormality they originally hypothesized.

The psychologist whose book I recently read argues that inattention and misbehavior is nothing but a motivation problem. Joey doesnt pay attention in class because he doesnt like to study, but knocks the bottom out of Game Cube and his PSII. He misbehaves because his parents either inconsistently or ineffectively disciplined him.

I'm wondering how everyone else views ADHD. Are you all suspicious of it, think it some disease the kid has no control over, or do you think it's pure bullshit?

 

[Paulo]

I think most of it is based upon an inability of our brains to adapt to such rapidly changing times.

The idea of giving kids amphetamines for it, though, has always rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[danielson]

brains too mystifying to completely understand

but clinicians have seen marked improvement in chilkdren when the amphetamines are administered, which weren;t seen with CBT etc alone.


so I think there is some role for them. and that there is also research out there which is done outside of the drug companies...clinical reviews etc. The author has chosen to look at the biased research for the basis of his book but Im positive there is good research out there, especially since ritalin's propertiesh ave been known about since the 60's I believe

 

[RottenWillow]

brains too mystifying to completely understand

but clinicians have seen marked improvement in chilkdren when the amphetamines are administered, which weren;t seen with CBT etc alone.


so I think there is some role for them. and that there is also research out there which is done outside of the drug companies...clinical reviews etc. The author has chosen to look at the biased research for the basis of his book but Im positive there is good research out there, especially since ritalin's propertiesh ave been known about since the 60's I believe

ampethamines do affectively treat inattention and misbehavior, I never suggested they dont. The control behavior, but they do absolutely nothing to teach children proper behavior. And they arent needed. Behavior management techniques, properly and consistently applied, work just as well and we dont need to give our children amphetamines.


All the research that has included Ritalin, Adderall, and Concerta as one of it's experimental variables were substantially funded by one or more of the companies that manufacture those drugs. A reasonable person would draw the same conclusion as yourself, but as I've learned this whole subject has been treated very unreasonably.

 

[from zero]

Bullshit, IMO.

People nowadays are all to quick to diagnose a rambunctious (sp?) kid with some bullcrap disorder. I don't know if it's greed, or lethargy as the adults' basic problem ... but telling a kid to start popping pills because he/she is 'too hyperactive' is just wrong.

 

[danielson]

true but i do believe pharmocology has a role in ADHD to help make behavioral therapy more useful


unfortunatley im sure Dr's overprescribe the drug rather than make sure things like CBT would not be useful without it

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

It's probably way overdiagnosed.

 

[WODIN]

I think that adhd...oh look...pretty....

 

[Carmen]

my 12 year old son was diagnosed with VERY mild attention deficit- he just has a lot of trouble in the classes that require continuous attention, like math and italian. I put him on a very mild dose of a timed released ritalin for a while. i thought it helped but his prescription ran out at the same time that we had a lapse in our health insurance so he was off it for a while and continued to improve in school anyway. I never put him back on it.

 

[ChefWide]

I am Adult Onset ADHD and I can tell for certain that always... er... wait... I meant that never.... um... I just noticed that...


What were you saying?

 

[jh1]

Psychology is very 'religious' in alot of ways....

Basically - theories abound that are spoken of as absolute truths by some and denied by others in the field. No way to prove or dis-prove. A lot like religion.

 

[crew9]

I've recently read a book by a psychologist that opened my eyes to a lot of issues about which I've been suspicious for a few years now.

For those who dont know, ADHD is the abbreviation for a psychological disorder called Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. Until 1980 the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders defined ADHD as basically a behavorial problem. Then beginning in the early '80's there was a fundamental paradigm shift. Authors began to argue ADHD was disease, that there was some abnormality in the brains of these inattentive, misbehaving children that caused them to behave the way they did.

some facts I discovered just recently:

1)the research conducted by these authors arguing the disease model has been almost entirely funded by the manufacturers of the amphetamines used to treat ADHD, named Ritalin, Adderal, etc.
2)even after 20+ years, over a dozen studies and several million dollars, none of this research has been able to uncover the mysterious brain abnormality they originally hypothesized.

The psychologist whose book I recently read argues that inattention and misbehavior is nothing but a motivation problem. Joey doesnt pay attention in class because he doesnt like to study, but knocks the bottom out of Game Cube and his PSII. He misbehaves because his parents either inconsistently or ineffectively disciplined him.

I'm wondering how everyone else views ADHD. Are you all suspicious of it, think it some disease the kid has no control over, or do you think it's pure bullshit?

I don't think ADHD is bullshit. I do think that the number of people who have it is significantly less than the number of people who are prescribed meds for it. Doctors nowadays would rather just give some drugs then treat the problem.

 

[bdog527]

CAT scans done on brains of people diagnosed with ADD/ADHD have shown prefrontal cortex hypoactivation. This would be consistent with innatention and hyperactivity. When they are given amphetamines or other stimulants the cortex displays a more normal pattern compared to a non-ADD individual.

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

i think that as a desiese, adhd is crap. it is the inability to stay focused. staying focused reqiures motivation. i have trouble staying focused a lot. that is, until i get my hands on something that im interested in. drop all these people with ADHD back about 200 years into the frontier, they would survive all the same as everyone else.

 

[ohashi]

Kids that fit all the current criteria for ADD and ADHD who start getting the shit beat out of them by their parents (in Eastern Europe, for example) seem to improve rather rapidly without any sort of amphetamine aid.

 

[Dial_tone]

I have a very short attention span, short enough to making reading difficult, but i've never been hyper. I'm almost too mellow.

 

[jh1]

I have a very short attention span, short enough to making reading difficult, but i've never been hyper. I'm almost too mellow.

 

[RottenWillow]

staying focused reqiures motivation.

that's it entirely. It's all about motivation.

show me a kid that cannot focus on some activity she loves and then I'll agree there's something organically wrong with her dome.

 

[Testosterone boy]

According to pharmaceutical prescription rates, our DNA suddenly headed south recently and continues to do so at an exponential rate.

Some is bullshit, most of it is troubles adapting to an uncertain reality.


Like when the Republicans give tax breaks to companies to fire mom and dad and hire Havi and Wang.

This fucks with the heads of our children. They want to know why these evil Republicans only care about profits. They want to know why these evil Republicans don't really give a dman about the American quality of life.


Most of all....they want to know why anyone with a brain would still be voting for giving tax breaks to replacing our JOBS.

 

[urallknobgobblers]

Im just lazy.. But when I need to get something done is does help to take a little ritalin.
Nah, I pry dont have a disease, I just overextended the welcome for my caffeine and ephedra receptors and had to move on.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Wow... where do I even start on this one... no offense, but msot of you do not have to education to even make a good guess on the answer to this one.

Yes, we know that ADHD has been overdiagnosed. A psychologist in on of my classes last semester explained that approximately 70% of cases are just hyper children with some behavior problems.

TRUE ADHD children need meds, and no amount of spanking or punishment will help. Anyoen who has been around one of these children for any period of time realizes this.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Wow... where do I even start on this one... no offense, but msot of you do not have to education to even make a good guess on the answer to this one.

Yes, we know that ADHD has been overdiagnosed. A psychologist in on of my classes last semester explained that approximately 70% of cases are just hyper children with some behavior problems.

TRUE ADHD children need meds, and no amount of spanking or punishment will help. Anyoen who has been around one of these children for any period of time realizes this.

BTW.....test boy hit the nail on the head.

Thanks orb.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

According to pharmaceutical prescription rates, our DNA suddenly headed south recently and continues to do so at an exponential rate.

Some is bullshit, most of it is troubles adapting to an uncertain reality.


Like when the Republicans give tax breaks to companies to fire mom and dad and hire Havi and Wang.

This fucks with the heads of our children. They want to know why these evil Republicans only care about profits. They want to know why these evil Republicans don't really give a dman about the American quality of life.


Most of all....they want to know why anyone with a brain would still be voting for giving tax breaks to replacing our JOBS.

And test boy hit the nail right on the head here.

 

[RottenWillow]

TRUE ADHD children need meds, and no amount of spanking or punishment will help. Anyoen who has been around one of these children for any period of time realizes this.

Need medication? What they need is to learn how to control their own behavior, not take amphetamines that control their behavior for them. Drugging our children is convienent for us because they are generally more compliant, but in terms of their self control they learn nothing.

 

[urallknobgobblers]

Who here uses caffeine or ephedra like substances? Shut up then.

 

[ohashi]

Who here uses caffeine or ephedra like substances? Shut up then.

Who here eats food? Shut up then.

 

[RottenWillow]

Who here uses caffeine or ephedra like substances? Shut up then.

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying what's the big deal with giving them amphetamines if we as adults take other stimulants?

 

[Mr. dB]

Wow... where do I even start on this one... no offense, but msot of you do not have to education to even make a good guess on the answer to this one.

Exactly.

 

[RottenWillow]

Exactly.

This is when you ask the doctor questions, so you will as a layperson become more qualified to speak on the issue.


When after a 10 minute session the doctor says your child has this "disease", you might ask:

"how do you know? what's the test for it?"
doc: "well, there isnt one?".
"how do you know he has this disease then?"
doc: "he has all the signs of it"
"cant we look at his brain with one of those scans (CAT, PET) and see it, or take blood or something?"
doc: "well, no. None of those things can detect the disease".
"so how do you know there even is a disease, by asking me 7 or 8 questions?"
doc: "yes, that's right".
"but he doesnt behave like this when he is at his father's house. Does that mean the disease goes into remission or something when he's over there?"
doc: "um, well, no"

 

[urallknobgobblers]

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying what's the big deal with giving them amphetamines if we as adults take other stimulants?

yep

 

[RottenWillow]

yep

As an adult you are choosing to take stimulants, children as young as 5 years old are being told to take them. Also amphetamines are much more addictive than ephedra or caffiene.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Need medication? What they need is to learn how to control their own behavior, not take amphetamines that control their behavior for them. Drugging our children is convienent for us because they are generally more compliant, but in terms of their self control they learn nothing.

Have you ever observed a child with true ADHD? Tell you what, if you do, why don't you babysite him or her for the day and see how well you can teach them to correct thier behavior.

A hyperactive child has the ability to control their behavior and be taught to do so. An ADHD child cannot control their bahavior, no amount of teaching, spanking or discipline will help, because all you are doing is teaching them to do something to lack the ability to do. If you can teach them to control thier behavior, that is a good indication that they do not actually have ADHD.

Parents who have spent years with a child with a serious case of ADHD are will to try anything to keep thier child from not only behaving, but from hurting themselves, destroying property etc.

Again, spend a day around one and you'll see the difference.

 

[urallknobgobblers]

As an adult you are choosing to take stimulants, children as young as 5 years old are being told to take them. Also amphetamines are much more addictive than ephedra or caffiene.

I was referring to adult cases.. Sorry. I would also disagree with the fact that ritalin is any more addictive than caffeine.. Having taken both, I would say that the availability of, and social acceptence of caffeine use makes it just as damaging, if not more.

 

[RottenWillow]

I was referring to adult cases.. Sorry. I would also disagree with the fact that ritalin is any more addictive than caffeine.. Having taken both, I would say that the availability of, and social acceptence of caffeine use makes it just as damaging, if not more.

Dude..... Stay in character!

Dont say "sorry" and be so nice and reasonable under your insult alter handle. knobgobblers needs to be for slams only.

But I understand your point.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

As an adult you are choosing to take stimulants, children as young as 5 years old are being told to take them. Also amphetamines are much more addictive than ephedra or caffiene.

If it improves their quality of life, then the parents have a right to give this to their children. Dr bills and propery damage add up very fast with these children, since they can't control themselves. Its doesn't matter that they know it hurts when they pull the cieling fan free from the roof by swining from it and it lands on top of them upon ripping out. They'll keep doing it.

Learn something in school? Not going to happen. They can't sit in a chair long enough to learn anything. 3 minutes into thier reading lesson they tend to be dancing on top of the table yelling. This also tends to make it difficult for the other children to learn. Time out doesn't work with these children. Spank them? It won't slow them down one bit. They'll go right back to what they were doing after being spanked, even if they are asked if it hurt and if they reply they know if they do it again they will get spanked. What they know to be the results of their actions are irrelevant.

 

[hooch]

some facts I discovered just recently:

1)the research conducted by these authors arguing the disease model has been almost entirely funded by the manufacturers of the amphetamines used to treat ADHD, named Ritalin, Adderal, etc.

fucking bingo!!! Don't you love how the NIH (National Institute for Health) recently lowered the threshold at which people should start taking cholestrol lowering drugs (statins I think they are called). Millions more people are put in the high cholesterol category. Then it comes out later 9 out of 10 members on that board have financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that produce those drugs.

Don't kid yourselves. Corporations run this country.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

fucking bingo!!! Don't you love how the NIH (National Institute for Health) recently lowered the threshold at which people should start taking cholestrol lowering drugs (statins I think they are called). Millions more people are put in the high cholesterol category. Then it comes out later 9 out of 10 members on that board have financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that produce those drugs.

Don't kid yourselves. Corporations run this country.

I'm not arguing this point. I hate corporate America. While roughly 70% of ADHD case are misdiagnosed, that does not reduce the seriousness or need for drugs in the remaining 30% of real cases.

Just because corporations are evil and concerned only with making money does NOT mean this disease is not real. That is the most absurd logic I've ever heard.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Completely disagree.

My oldest son had A.D.D (he isnt hyper) when I initially put him on medication.. it was like night and day.

His teachers were stunned at the difference it made in his behavior. (I didnt tell them beforehand that I had him put on Ritalin.. I only informed them after he was prescribed)

But I do strongly believe that many kids are misdiagnosed.

 

[RottenWillow]

Completely disagree.

My oldest son had A.D.D (he isnt hyper) when I initially put him on medication.. it was like night and day.

What behaviors were you concerned about that originally prompted the doctor's visit?

 

[milo hobgoblin]

Complete inability to focus on a task for more than 20-30 seconds. You could sit thetre and watch his mind goign 1000 mph.

If the stimulus wasnt constantly changed.. he was gone.