Interesting situation....Advice?

[Johndogg]

What's up guys....I'm a long time reader of the boards, newbie to post.
I'm a former fat ass....I'm 23 yrs old, 5'8, 200 lbs, about 18% bf (I know, not great, but from where I was, it's pretty good). In high school, I weighed almost 300lbs, with a bf around 30%. I was always athletic, just ate like shit and am blessed with a less than stellar metabolism.

Anyway, I started eating right, hitting the gym, making strides. I'm sensitive to carbs, so when I feel froggy and want to speed up the process I cut back.

I just thought I'd give you a briefing before I get to my situation...

My interesting situation is this:

I live in the Caribbean now (transplanted from NY). There are a few universities on this island, and I'm friends with a bunch of students. One of my good friends gets gear shipped down here, and is hooking me up for free. ( I know, I'm a lucky bastard) Obviously I can't go bananas, but I can do pretty well. The stuff is from a very reputable source in the Southeast of the U.S. I've done tons of research and am really just looking for more advice.

I've started with an oral winstrol cycle 50mg tabs ED( I have been taking milk thistle and drinking loads of water- I like my liver!), to help me cut more, allow me to go low calorie and not lose the muscle. This will hold me over.... It is also b/c this happens to be what he has alot of, more stuff is coming in 2 weeks and I am planning my first legit stack.

As of now, we've planned for the stack to be a front load, and then steady dose of test-e, along with deca and winstrol....I'll combat side effects with clomid and nolvadex. The idea, is to gain muscle, shed fat, and to do it on a semi-restricted diet. (lower cal, low carb, high protein).

Would anyone like to share their opinions on my gameplan?

Thanks in advance,
JDogg

 

[ninesecz]

sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do I would run some test E or cyp for 10-12weeks @250-500mg totl per week back the wiiny off and replce with deca. then put the winny back in for 2-4 weeks at end

 

[mikefear]

Sounds like a first cycle to me .. leave the deca out of it and stick with test e @ 500mg for 10 weeks.. if you eat correctly you'll lose fat and put on muscle.. i wouldnt keep in a caloric deficit though -- hard as hell to gain muscle that way.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Are you sure your bf is only 15%? I'm just about your height and 180lbs....I'm under 15% bf.... if I had 20 more pounds on my frame, it'd be alot of fat.... maybe consider losing some more fat first...don't rely on AAS for that... I personally wouldn't rely on oral winstrol alone as a fat-burner.... then, when you're ready, as the others have suggested, run a 10-wk test only cycle...you'll make great gains on that.... use an anti-estrogen (aromasin, AIFM arimidex) throughout the cycle... then use either nolva or clomid for PCT (along with your AI)

 

[Johndogg]

Are you sure your bf is only 15%? I'm just about your height and 180lbs....I'm under 15% bf.... if I had 20 more pounds on my frame, it'd be alot of fat.... maybe consider losing some more fat first...don't rely on AAS for that... I personally wouldn't rely on oral winstrol alone as a fat-burner.... then, when you're ready, as the others have suggested, run a 10-wk test only cycle...you'll make great gains on that.... use an anti-estrogen (aromasin, AIFM arimidex) throughout the cycle... then use either nolva or clomid for PCT (along with your AI)

You are correct- I had a typo....I'm about 18% bf. I'll change that right away....glad you're paying attention!

Sorry about that!

On to the other stuff....I know I'll have test-e, deca, winny, clomid and nolvadex at my disposal, all free of charge, and enough for a complete 10-wk cycle.

Since I'm not paying for it, would it hurt to plan a stack with all of it? If I was paying, I'd probably ditch the deca for now, go with the test and finish with the winny, but I figure, hell- get a great stack for free, go with it! (maybe I'm wrong- feel free to critique)

Obviously, the test is the main component and will be front loaded. I was orginally planning on doing something similar to what the other dude said- Test, deca, finish off with winny, start the clomid before the cycle is over, and have clomid/nolva for PCT.

I won't start the cycle for 2 to 3 weeks.....I plan on a very strict diet between now and then.....I know I can get to 16% or so in that time. If I'm not where I want to be in 2 wks, I'll wait a week.

I have the Winny now (it is also free), and it is seemingly helping me not lose muscle on a low carb, approx 1500 cal diet, so I think I'll continue until my cycle. Like I said, 50mg oral, ED.

Does this all make sense, or does it sound like I need a major change?

Thanks,

JDogg

 

[njmuscleguy]

You're looking at it all wrong bro... it's great...no AWESOME that you can get real gear for FREE... however, just because you can get it free, doesn't mean you should be doing it.... I wouldn't do half of what's out there, even if it were free... you have to run cycles intelligently... this is your first cycle... start off simple... make sure your diet and training is in check and you will grow nicely... plus, if you're going to react negatively to any one compound, you wouldn't know which one the culprit is if you start off with several compounds... with each successive cycle, add another compound, then stick with what works for you! There's no reason why you couldn't just stock up the gear you can get now and then use it later down the road when your'e more experienced.

 

[Johndogg]

You're looking at it all wrong bro... it's great...no AWESOME that you can get real gear for FREE... however, just because you can get it free, doesn't mean you should be doing it.... I wouldn't do half of what's out there, even if it were free... you have to run cycles intelligently... this is your first cycle... start off simple... make sure your diet and training is in check and you will grow nicely... plus, if you're going to react negatively to any one compound, you wouldn't know which one the culprit is if you start off with several compounds... with each successive cycle, add another compound, then stick with what works for you! There's no reason why you couldn't just stock up the gear you can get now and then use it later down the road when your'e more experienced.

Good advice. Makes perfect sense.

Having heard that, would it make most sense to continue to get leaner with the Winny for a couple/few more weeks as I'm doing, then run just Test-E, and toward the end, re-introduce the winny? Or would you say that once I start with the test, just eliminate the winny for the time being. My goal is to gain muscle, but to keep it as lean as possible b/c obviously my bf % isn't where I'd love it to be.

Basically, just take the deca and save it maybe for next time?

Right now, I know the winny doesn't adversely effect me....so when I introduce the test, I can register whatever needs to be registered, and then move on....

Would this be sound?

Thanks again man,
JDogg

 

[anticure]

when you cut a few more % ditch the winny start with 500test for 6-7 weeks then jump back on the winny and your strength will go through the roof...good luck bro

 

[njmuscleguy]

I don't have any experience with winny, or running an oral-only cycle for that matter... so I can't give you much advice there... I would say ditch the winny... burn off the fat naturally...then start a legit cycle of test-only

 

[Johndogg]

I don't have any experience with winny, or running an oral-only cycle for that matter... so I can't give you much advice there... I would say ditch the winny... burn off the fat naturally...then start a legit cycle of test-only

Looks like the plan will be a Test-E only cycle, and depending where I am "maybe" some Winny at the end. I'm going to save the Deca maybe for next time.

Also, while I'm cutting, anyone out there have any positive things to say about Clen?

I could, as soon as tomorrow, introduce clen to stack with the winny until I do my Test cycle.

Thanks,
JDogg

 

[Johndogg]

Looks like the plan will be a Test-E only cycle, and depending where I am "maybe" some Winny at the end. I'm going to save the Deca maybe for next time.

Also, while I'm cutting, anyone out there have any positive things to say about Clen?

I could, as soon as tomorrow, introduce clen to stack with the winny until I do my Test cycle.

Thanks,
JDogg

Nevermind about the Winny/Clen combo- I don't feel comfortable with them both and their effect on my liver. (Even with liver protectants, milk thistle).

Thanks again,
JDogg

 

[Johndogg]

I don't have any experience with winny, or running an oral-only cycle for that matter... so I can't give you much advice there... I would say ditch the winny... burn off the fat naturally...then start a legit cycle of test-only

As you may have seen, I chose the test-e cycle.....I'm thinkin/looking at 10 weeks, to start in 2 weeks.....That'll give me a month of cutting with winny, under my belt. I'll then stop the Winny, and jump into the test cycle.

Something like:

Week 1- 1000mg frontload
Weeks 2-10 - 500mg each week

Possibly oral Winstrol for the last 4 weeks, depending on how things are going.

Clomid and Nolvadex should be plenty to cover my ass for PCT for this, right? Any advice as to when exactly to jump start the PCT?

Thanks again(I know these questions are a bit simple, but simple questions seem to get the best answers),
-JDogg

 

[njmuscleguy]

Again, I don't have any experience with frontloading, so I can't say if frontloading is worth it...some say yes, but it seems most would say don't bother. I typically see more experienced guys frontloading. You should be running an aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as AIFM or Aromasin throughout that entire cycle to combat estrogen sides...As for PCT, a popular regimen is to start HCG the day after your last test enth shot...run that for 10 days (500iu ED)...then the day after your last HCG shot, run your nolvadex -OR- Clomid (not both)... for a simple test-only cycle, you probably won't need HCG, but you certainly can use it if you wanted... otherwise, just start the Nolva or Clomid about 7-10 days after your last test shot... run that (along with your AI) for 2-6 weeks

 

[Johndogg]

Again, I don't have any experience with frontloading, so I can't say if frontloading is worth it...some say yes, but it seems most would say don't bother. I typically see more experienced guys frontloading. You should be running an aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as AIFM or Aromasin throughout that entire cycle to combat estrogen sides...As for PCT, a popular regimen is to start HCG the day after your last test enth shot...run that for 10 days (500iu ED)...then the day after your last HCG shot, run your nolvadex -OR- Clomid (not both)... for a simple test-only cycle, you probably won't need HCG, but you certainly can use it if you wanted... otherwise, just start the Nolva or Clomid about 7-10 days after your last test shot... run that (along with your AI) for 2-6 weeks

Would Arimidex throught the cycle, and during PCT be a good idea? I forgot to include that in my last post.

Maybe just an Arimidex-Clomid PCT?

See, I am on a Caribbean island, and HCG may not be available (although I will check).

Clomid, Arimidex and Nolvadex are available to me, however.

I do understand why I wouldn't want to take Clomid & Nolvadex together.

I do feel, I may be susceptible to gyno (I am one of those dudes who has trouble developing the chest...when my diet runs astray, I get flabby up there).

Any advice, knowing this?

Thanks again, especially NJMuscleguy, for all the help.

-JDogg

 

[njmuscleguy]

Well, getting flabby up in your chest area doesn't necessarily mean it's gyno.. but to answer your questions, yes, run Arimidex throughout your cycle and for PCT... Clomid + Adex should be sufficient for PCT for a cycle like that.

 

[Johndogg]

Well, getting flabby up in your chest area doesn't necessarily mean it's gyno.. but to answer your questions, yes, run Arimidex throughout your cycle and for PCT... Clomid + Adex should be sufficient for PCT for a cycle like that.

Any advice for dosage of the clomid & arimidex, for the 10-wk Test E cycle?

Thanks,
JDogg

 

[njmuscleguy]

Any advice for dosage of the clomid & arimidex, for the 10-wk Test E cycle?

Thanks,
JDogg

I'm not a huge fan of Adex... I still looked like a marshmallow at 1.0mg ED... but it works for people.... start off with 0.5mg ED and adjust the dosage as necessary.... as for Clomid during PCT, run 50mg ED for a minimum of 2 weeks (maximum of 4-6 weeks)

 

[Johndogg]

I'm not a huge fan of Adex... I still looked like a marshmallow at 1.0mg ED... but it works for people.... start off with 0.5mg ED and adjust the dosage as necessary.... as for Clomid during PCT, run 50mg ED for a minimum of 2 weeks (maximum of 4-6 weeks)

Hey man, thanks for the advice.

I did mention AIFM, Aromasin & HCG. Evidently HCG is def. a possibility.....It should be down here maybe by the end of October.

I will keep you posted, and probably come back for advice when appropriate.

Random question- Would a low-carb diet (carbs more in the morning), be a bad idea on a test-e cycle? Keep the calories in a good spot, fat & protein up, just cut on carbs a bit.

I kind of want to walk the line between gaining muscle and not gaining fat....or should I just eat eat eat, and cut later. I really don't want to go out and buy bigger shorts. Could I re-introduce Winstrol at the last 4 weeks of the cycle, and start to cut down then?

Also, and anyone can feel free to answer these questions, working out 5 days a week, usually at 9 am.....What would be the best sort of cardio plan to keep fat from coming on during a cycle (in your opinion)? (

Thanks again,
JDogg