I'm going to try DoggCrapp Training...!

[SofaGeorge]

I'm not a big fan of low volume workouts... and I love my curent Needsize 5x5 routine; however, I'm an experimenter... so I want to give DC training a try.

My question is:

How long do I need to give DC to see whether or not it is working for me?

One month? Two months? Three months?

What is an optimal test period?

 

[louden_swain]

Its great stuff!!!! You will be working at 110 percent intensity, plus you will always train to failure. Stopping before you reach failure is silly to me. Keep us posted on your results.

 

[Lestat]

Hey SG,

When you get your routine worked out can you post it in detail?

I am going to start HST next week, I'll post mine up.. if it doesn't work I'll try DC next.

Lestat

 

[Thaibox]

Sofa, I've been thinking of trying it for a few months. When do you plan on starting?

 

[louden_swain]

If any of you guys decide to start, feel free to post your routines and progress on the DC sticky.

 

[Citruscide]

Hmm... damnit Louden, you planted a seed in my head. Now SG is thinking about it, and now Thai... I would think about it for chest... maybe biceps... and triceps... My back and legs are going good though... so are shoulders...

Hmm... time to think.

c-ditty

 

[casualbb]

plus you will always train to failure. Stopping before you reach failure is silly to me.

See the "Training Theory by Animalmass et al" above from solid info on training to failure. Hint: it's really not the cat's meow.

It may become evident that failure is actaully detrimental (note to John this would neccessiate the two factor theory, that has always been rejected by bodybuilders) because too much stress occurs (especially if inadequate rest intervals are used)...this would facilitate the increasing levels of fatigue resulting in a faster establishment of the Overtraining syndrome!

-casualbb

 

[louden_swain]

See the "Training Theory by Animalmass et al" above from solid info on training to failure. Hint: it's really not the cat's meow.



-casualbb

Thats the beauty of DC. . .you don't overtrain!! I love to be pushed to the limits, and this forces me to grow.

 

[Zyglamail]

The problem I see when bouncing from method to metyhod is that they all seem to work....for a while and that is the catch. The simple fact that you changed your workout almost always elicits a positive response so to truely judge a training style you have to follow it and see if you hit a platue, if ya never do then you can say it works. If you try it and hit a platue that cant be easily acredited to undereating/overtraining then the method of training is actually no better than any other for the most part.

The goal of us all I beleive is to find a method of training that offers variety enough so we dont get bored and continued advancement in the form of mass or strength or both.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Okay... here is my routine (shake it up if you are a DC expert.) I will start tomorrow and be on a Monday-Wednesday-Friday pattern with four "off" days for recovery (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday.)

Week #1

Day 1 Monday

Chest - Incline Dumbell Bench
Shoulders - One armed side raises
Triceps - Decline French Curls (aka Skullcrushers)
Back width - Smith Machine Barbell Rows
Back thickness - Deadlifts

Day 2 Wednesday
Biceps - Steep Incline Dumbell curls
Forearms - Scot curls
Calves - Standing calf machine
Hams - Lying leg curl
Quads - Leg press

Day 3 Friday
Chest - Incline Barbell Bench
Shoulders - Standing Dumbell Military Press
Triceps - Close Grip Bench
Back width - Wide Grip Pullups
Back Thickness - free weight bentover rows (Yates grip)

Week #2

Day 4 Monday
Biceps - Standing Barbell Curl (elbows back)
Forearms - Hammer Curls
Calves - Seated Calf Press
Hams - Straight Leg Deadlift
Quads - Squats

Day 5 Wednesday
Chest - Dips
Shoulders - Side Raises
Triceps - Close Grip Bench
Back width - Pull downs
Back Thickness - Chin Ups

Day 6 Friday
Biceps - Biceps Machine
Forearms - Wrist Curls
Calves - Leg Press Calf Pushes
Hams - Lying Leg curls
Quads - Hack Squat Machine

If this looks wrong... please correct it.

Also, I noted that 10-12 seems to be the rep range suggested. Is that correct?

Also, can anyone describe exactly how to do a DC set? I've read the descriptions... but am still looking for more info.

(Also, I log all my workouts. I'll do the above workouts in a Word .doc print out. If anyone wants a copy of the file send my your email address.)

 

[Thaibox]

I'm going to start Monday, and I'm curious to watch the relative progress of others.



C'mon C-ditty...peer pressure bro..... all the cool kids are doing it.....you know you want to....

 

[louden_swain]

For anyone who starts this be sure to read everything carefully.

The diet, extreme stretching, rest pause, static holds, and negatives are essential for this program to work.

Most of all, you should stick with barbells rather than dumbbells.

It is difficult to perform the rest pause method, static, holds and negatives with dumbbells.

Use the dumbbells for extreme stretching.

Carry this on over to the DC sticky.

 

[SofaGeorge]

For anyone who starts this be sure to read everything carefully.

The diet, extreme stretching, rest pause, static holds, and negatives are essential for this program to work.

Most of all, you should stick with barbells rather than dumbbells.

It is difficult to perform the rest pause method, static, holds and negatives with dumbbells.

Use the dumbbells for extreme stretching.

Carry this on over to the DC sticky.

I'll read through the entire sticky tonight... and that's a lot of reading.

 

[TheOak84]

hey louden, if i wanted to do DC training for my legs, what would i do:

Squats - 1x8 then 1x20 right after that??
then maybe some leg ext?

is that right

 

[louden_swain]

hey louden, if i wanted to do DC training for my legs, what would i do:

Squats - 1x8 then 1x20 right after that??
then maybe some leg ext?

is that right

Squats work pretty simple:

Lets say that your peak building set is with 365lbs

Here is what you do:

Warmups:

bar x 10, 135lbs x 10, 225lbs x 5, 295lbs x 3

Building Sets:
365lbs x 4-8 reps, then 245-265lbs x 20.

Really, there is no need to perform leg extensions. If you hit the squat correctly with good form and high intensity, performing leg extensions is not necessary.

Lately, I have been performing good mornings right after my squats. This week I will be using 275lbs x 3 for good mornings.

 

[TheOak84]

ill try that when i start DC for 4 weeks in may-june..

thanx

BTW, its silly to warm up with the bar.. haha, never in my life time.. i do the elipticle for 5 min.. then 135, 185, ect..

 

[JohnyJuice]

Define static holds please.

And as far as squats, this is what i do. I pick a wieght i can do about 8 of. DO my eight and fail. Take 10-15 breaths and go again. Fail. Take 10 more breaths, go again. Done. Then maybe a lower weight set doing negatives. I dont use the negatives on the heavy squat cause i just dont think it is a good idea as far as tendons and ligaments go.

 

[Deepsquat]

Define static holds please.

And as far as squats, this is what i do. I pick a wieght i can do about 8 of. DO my eight and fail. Take 10-15 breaths and go again. Fail. Take 10 more breaths, go again. Done. Then maybe a lower weight set doing negatives. I dont use the negatives on the heavy squat cause i just dont think it is a good idea as far as tendons and ligaments go.

If you do a squat set right ...you most likely will not be able to RP the set...just do a straight set...I just do the high rep set ...though may add the low rep+ high rep....but I di one set of squat last night ...hit 18 reps...had to lay down on the floor for around 10 minutes...no way to rp it...

As for a static hold...take bench as an example I unlock my elbows about 3-4 inches and just hold the weight in that position until I can't do it anymore.... If you train with someone , maybe you would like to hold it 4-6 inches off your chest ....the trick is to find and area of the exeercise that causes a lot of tension on the muscle being worked...but you have to be safe about it, if you do the bottom portion of a bench or legpress, how you gonna get it back up?

 

[coolcolj]

LMAO

I must admit everytime I see "DoggCrapp" training I chuckle - what a name

 

[PolishHammer1977]

The conversions have almost all taken place to the DOGGCRAPP science.

 

[Debaser]

Call it Dante training then if you want

Anyway louden said this but it is VERY IMPORTANT.

To paraphrase DC, EVERYTHING goes together, that means his diet, training and stretches. Do not just do bits and parts of the program as you can fail like that. If you give it an honest shot, I can guarantee that you'll like the results. sofageorge thaibox and others we look forward to you posting on the DC sticky, we can answer any questions there.

 

[louden_swain]

Make sure that all warmups are light and NEVER take them to failure.

I typically use a 10,5,3 type of rep scheme in warmups. Save the energy for your reps on the main building set.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Do not just do bits and parts of the program as you can fail like that.

God, when I start seeing things like that I feel somebody is making excuses for why the program didn't work before I even started it.

 

[collegiateLifter]

For anyone who starts this be sure to read everything carefully.

The diet, extreme stretching, rest pause, static holds, and negatives are essential for this program to work.

I know you are actually doin the program right now and i can respect that, but i recall that static holds and even to an extent negatives are extras, with diet, ext. stretching and RP's making up the core of the program.

 

[casualbb]

I would even go so far as to say the statics and extended negs are detrimental. Recovery is limited not so much by volume but the extreme failure to which the muscle is taken.

Unfortunately, in the relentless pursuit of "intensity," people are going beyond concentric failure, beyond even isometric failure, to eccentric failure. Kiss your CNS goodbye. I would wager if you dropped the holds and negatives you could train at least twice a week and keep all gains, if not improve them.

-casualbb

 

[he-man]

If you do a squat set right ...you most likely will not be able to RP the set...just do a straight set...I just do the high rep set ...though may add the low rep+ high rep....but I di one set of squat last night ...hit 18 reps...had to lay down on the floor for around 10 minutes...no way to rp it...

As for a static hold...take bench as an example I unlock my elbows about 3-4 inches and just hold the weight in that position until I can't do it anymore.... If you train with someone , maybe you would like to hold it 4-6 inches off your chest ....the trick is to find and area of the exeercise that causes a lot of tension on the muscle being worked...but you have to be safe about it, if you do the bottom portion of a bench or legpress, how you gonna get it back up?

if you read the more info link on the DC sticky you'll see this quote - "Some exercises involving legs and some back rowing exercises don't allow themselves to rest pause too well" it can still be done though. as far as only using portions of the DC training - i have been using the r/p portion as well as the stretching exercises. if you know enough about lifting your already on a good diet - i just added an extra meal each day and you should already know the importance of stretching. all this is not a big mystery. overall i love the program - i'm up to 231 as of today.

 

[louden_swain]

I know you are actually doin the program right now and i can respect that, but i recall that static holds and even to an extent negatives are extras, with diet, ext. stretching and RP's making up the core of the program.

I don't see the point in using this program if these techniques are not included. To me that is not putting 100 percent effort.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I have to agree with casual in that the core is the increased strength thru rest pauses, coupled with the diet and extreme stretching. Thats of utmost importance.
I cringe when i see someone say--Ive been doing 5x5 for 4 weeks and now im going to try HST or DC for 4 weeks to see if it works. Four weeks? I know my methods work and I know HST works and I dont know much about it through and through but Im pretty sure 5x5 is working for people--but 4 weeks isnt enough time to see if something is working or not. Christ it takes people 6-15 years to put on huge amounts of muscle mass yet people are jumping from program to program every 4 weeks. I would like to hear from the other trainers on this board but I will say definitely that every person who comes to me (to train them) who hasnt gained for awhile thinks its their training system thats the problem (and some enhanced people think they have fake drugs) VERY RARELY IS IT THE TRAINING--Nine times out of ten its diet! I cant make a 250lb bodybuilder out of a 200lb bodybuilder who is eating like a 180lb bodybuilder. My methods DEFINITELY (and probaly every other method) wont work unless someone is doing the neccessary things according to diet. I have no qualms stating that at all. If you think you can do my methods eating a bowl of applejacks in the morning, a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich for lunch and a can of ravioli for dinner and succeed--its not going to happen. I dont want people to jump on this DC bandwagon because theres alot of people liking it. Get your diet in check first as thats priority number one--the make or break of it. When thats done take one of these protocols (mine, HST, 5x5 or whatever) and after reading about each one and its merits make a choice and give it a solid 3-6 month run fullout. As sad as this is to say I am trying to sway too many people from using my methods because I know Im going to get people who triple what I tell them to do and overtrain, or eat like a 145lb marathon runner, or just do it half ass looking for a miracle. The local people I show this too --god it takes me sometimes 2 weeks to get them on the right track and then they get into their groove and take off up the bodybuilding ladder.....its 50 times tougher than that trying to type all this out on message boards.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Alot of good points on this thread. I would have to say the one thing i am guilty of occasionally is forgetting to do a stretch. I usually remember to do it after i have already done another excercise, so i do 2 stretches in a row. As far as eating, i am on top of that. I am eating so much protien (probably around 300 grams a day) that it seems most of my diet is meat and eggs and powder. Oh well, price you pay i guess. I think i will eat some ice cream actually. Right now. yeah...ice cream

 

[SofaGeorge]

I have to agree with casual in that the core is the increased strength thru rest pauses, coupled with the diet and extreme stretching. Thats of utmost importance.
I cringe when i see someone say--Ive been doing 5x5 for 4 weeks and now im going to try HST or DC for 4 weeks to see if it works. Four weeks? I know my methods work and I know HST works and I dont know much about it through and through but Im pretty sure 5x5 is working for people--but 4 weeks isnt enough time to see if something is working or not. Christ it takes people 6-15 years to put on huge amounts of muscle mass yet people are jumping from program to program every 4 weeks. I would like to hear from the other trainers on this board but I will say definitely that every person who comes to me (to train them) who hasnt gained for awhile thinks its their training system thats the problem (and some enhanced people think they have fake drugs) VERY RARELY IS IT THE TRAINING--Nine times out of ten its diet! I cant make a 250lb bodybuilder out of a 200lb bodybuilder who is eating like a 180lb bodybuilder. My methods DEFINITELY (and probaly every other method) wont work unless someone is doing the neccessary things according to diet. I have no qualms stating that at all. If you think you can do my methods eating a bowl of applejacks in the morning, a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich for lunch and a can of ravioli for dinner and succeed--its not going to happen. I dont want people to jump on this DC bandwagon because theres alot of people liking it. Get your diet in check first as thats priority number one--the make or break of it. When thats done take one of these protocols (mine, HST, 5x5 or whatever) and after reading about each one and its merits make a choice and give it a solid 3-6 month run fullout. As sad as this is to say I am trying to sway too many people from using my methods because I know Im going to get people who triple what I tell them to do and overtrain, or eat like a 145lb marathon runner, or just do it half ass looking for a miracle. The local people I show this too --god it takes me sometimes 2 weeks to get them on the right track and then they get into their groove and take off up the bodybuilding ladder.....its 50 times tougher than that trying to type all this out on message boards.

DC... can you ascribe a proper lenth of test period to your training style. I can understand that 4 weeks is too short... but is there a test period that you consider adequate? 12 weeks? 6 months?

 

[Deepsquat]

he says , right in the post you quoted...to give it 3-6 months....3/4 of the way down the page.........

 

[Jxaxsxe530]

i tried it for a month and was totally impressed with both strength and size gain, after 5 years of training with less than impressive results. recently i got a little sick again and decided to go back to my old routine (a little more volume more sets more reps less weight) for a couple weeks and i regressed, big time. i am feeling much better now, and can't wait to go back to DC training. Its tough, but i dont remember another routine that had me excited about going to the gym. Everytime u step into the gym, u know u have one set, one chance to best ur old lift, and that alone right there is motivating. high volume work does nothing but drains ur energy, in and out of the gym. i am always tired and lazy when i do high volume works.

 

[Debaser]

I am about to overhaul my routine and I will post the exact routine I do, if you guys like my exercise choices then that will remove some of the guesswork for ya, and you could just do what I do.

 

[Debaser]

Actually, I've had a change of heart, I'm doing a personal experiment that is still DC training, but incorporates some things like fewer exercises and fractional plates and things, so I don't want anyone following this program until I'm assured of its efficacy

 

[SofaGeorge]

Then I begin my 3-6 month DC test. Thai Box... C-Ditty... are you in?

 

[Strider]

I have been studing this for the past week and am gearing up to start it next week (taking an off/rest week). I am putting together an excel spread sheet that I can share when I'm done.

I'm getting pretty sync'd about it. Been reading every night to make sure I get all the fine details.

 

[akaba]

R u still supposed to feel sore the nex day from juss doing one set???

 

[Strider]

"R u still supposed to feel sore the nex day from juss doing one set???"

..if done correctly - YES !