I have gyno...I have new labs vs. old labs. Someone help me out please

[Liftstrong12]

4 weeks into a 400mg/wk Test-P cycle I starting getting gyno. Itchy nips and lumps under one. Prior to gyno I was taking .25mg adex eod. After gyno onset I started 50mg Nolva and 1mg adex both ed. after 10 days I went down to 25mg Nolva and .5mg adex. I also started Var at week 5. I am currently starting week 8, of a 10 weeker. Gyno has not reversed but seems not to be getting worse. Below are my labs from a week after gyno started, and below that are my labs from last week which was 3 days after I went down to the 25mg Nolva/.5mg Adex. Based on what you see, what would you do? I also just started 500iu HCG e3d until PCT.

(First Labs drawn Sept 4th)

WBC 10.3 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL RN
RBC 4.89 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL RN
Hemoglobin 15.1 12.6-17.7 g/dL RN
Hematocrit 45.9 37.5-51.0 % RN
MCV 94 79-97 fL RN
MCH 30.9 26.6-33.0 pg RN
MCHC 32.9 31.5-35.7 g/dL RN
RDW 13.1 12.3-15.4 % RN
Platelets 328 140-415 x10E3/uL RN
Neutrophils 69 40-74 % RN
Lymphs 19 14-46 % RN
Monocytes 11 4-13 % RN
Eos 1 0-7 % RN
Basos 0 0-3 % RN
Neutrophils (Absolute) 7.1 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL RN
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.9 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL RN
Monocytes(Absolute) 1.2​

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HIGH 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL RN
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL RN
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL RN
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % RN
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL RN​

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)​

Glucose, Serum 83 65-99 mg/dL RN
BUN 26​

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HIGH 6-20 mg/dL RN
Creatinine, Serum 1.31 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL RN
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 71 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN
eGFR If Africn Am 82 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 20 HIGH 8-19 RN
Sodium, Serum 138 134-144 mmol/L RN
Potassium, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.2 mmol/L RN
Chloride, Serum 97 97-108 mmol/L RN
Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 19-28 mmol/L RN
Calcium, Serum 9.7 8.7-10.2 mg/dL RN
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL RN
Albumin, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.5 g/dL RN
Globulin, Total 2.7 1.5-4.5 g/dL RN
A/G Ratio 1.5 1.1-2.5 RN​

Bilirubin, Total

Alkaline Phosphatase, S 65 44-102 IU/L RN
AST (SGOT) 48​

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HIGH 0-40 IU/L RN
ALT (SGPT) 58 HIGH 0-44 IU/L RN​

Testosterone, Serum​

Testosterone, Serum >1500​

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HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL RN​

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S​

LH 0.1​

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LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL RN​

FSH, Serum​

FSH 0.2​

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LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL RN​

Estradiol​

Estradiol 60.4 HIGH 7.6-42.6 pg/mL RN

(Second Labs drawn sept 19th)

WBC 14.9​

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HIGH 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL RN
RBC 4.90 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL RN
Hemoglobin 15.2 12.6-17.7 g/dL RN
Hematocrit 45.5 37.5-51.0 % RN
MCV 93 79-97 fL RN
MCH 31.0 26.6-33.0 pg RN
MCHC 33.4 31.5-35.7 g/dL RN
RDW 12.7 12.3-15.4 % RN
Platelets 345 155-379 x10E3/uL RN
Neutrophils 80 HIGH 40-74 % RN
Lymphs 14 14-46 % RN
Monocytes 5 4-12 % RN
Eos 1 0-5 % RN
Basos 0 0-3 % RN
Neutrophils (Absolute) 11.9 HIGH 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL RN
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.1 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL RN
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.8 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL RN
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL RN
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL RN
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % RN
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL RN​

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)​

Glucose, Serum 102​

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HIGH 65-99 mg/dL RN
BUN 23 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL RN
Creatinine, Serum 1.18 0.76-1.27 mg/dL RN
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 80 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN
eGFR If Africn Am 93 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 19 8-19 RN
Sodium, Serum 136 134-144 mmol/L RN
Potassium, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.2 mmol/L RN
Chloride, Serum 98 97-108 mmol/L RN
Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 19-28 mmol/L RN
Calcium, Serum 9.3 8.7-10.2 mg/dL RN
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL RN
Albumin, Serum 3.9 3.5-5.5 g/dL RN
Globulin, Total 2.8 1.5-4.5 g/dL RN
A/G Ratio 1.4 1.1-2.5 RN
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL RN
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 55 44-102 IU/L RN
AST (SGOT) 28 0-40 IU/L RN
ALT (SGPT) 27 0-44 IU/L RN​

Testosterone, Serum​

Testosterone, Serum >1500​

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HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL RN​

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S​

LH 0.1​

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LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL RN​

FSH, Serum​

FSH <0.2​

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LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL RN​

Estradiol​

Estradiol 41.9 7.6-42.6 pg/mL RN

 

[Zyglamail]

4 weeks into a 400mg/wk Test-P cycle I starting getting gyno. Itchy nips and lumps under one. Prior to gyno I was taking .25mg adex eod.

What would I do based on your labs? Id run 1mg adex eod or .5mg ed and finish out cycle. Thats what you should have done from the start.

Why on earth do you think less than 1mg adex when on 400mg test a week is gonna be enough? Every week I see people post this kinda shit and they wonder why they get gyno.

2mg of adex a week is a common starting point for people on TRT which is generally 100-125mg week of test, you on 4 times that much and half the adex, what do you expect to happen?

Adex is not going to kill E it only prevents the conversion of of T to E. your changing your adex dose too frequently and not staying consistent while on cycle so your data is basically worthless in trying to determine what dose of adex you should be at.

Your likely going to get rid of gyno during a cycle or PCT, you will have to concentrate on that after your done with cycle and PCT.

For your next cycle I suggest you do some homework, pick an ADEQUATE dose of adex and stick with it for a good 5 weeks, then get labs to see what E is on your cycle and then adjust accordingly.

 

[Liftstrong12]

What would I do based on your labs? Id run 1mg adex eod or .5mg ed and finish out cycle. Thats what you should have done from the start.

Why on earth do you think less than 1mg adex when on 400mg test a week is gonna be enough? Every week I see people post this kinda shit and they wonder why they get gyno.

2mg of adex a week is a common starting point for people on TRT which is generally 100-125mg week of test, you on 4 times that much and half the adex, what do you expect to happen?

Adex is not going to kill E it only prevents the conversion of of T to E. your changing your adex dose too frequently and not staying consistent while on cycle so your data is basically worthless in trying to determine what dose of adex you should be at.

Your likely going to get rid of gyno during a cycle or PCT, you will have to concentrate on that after your done with cycle and PCT.

For your next cycle I suggest you do some homework, pick an ADEQUATE dose of adex and stick with it for a good 5 weeks, then get labs to see what E is on your cycle and then adjust accordingly.

I believe you're the reason I increased my dose to 1mg ed to start with...so thanks for that. I hear you on the up and down on adex. I'm going to stick with .5 adex ed and .25 Nolva ed till the end of cycle. It's really hard weeding through the advice from all the people that all sound like they know their shit.

 

[Zyglamail]

It's really hard weeding through the advice from all the people that all sound like they know their shit.

Thats why you do research, ask people WHY they make a given claim and when you see the reasoning behind why people suggest something you can then ask more questions or make an educated decision.

Here is my take on the who estrogen thing.

Estrogen IS needed for bone density and many other things. If you error on the side of caution and take a bit too much, your likely to get some sides of low estrogen (bone/joint pain etc) and you can reduce your AI dose a bit. Low estrogen over the course of a 12 week cycle or so wont really cause any lasting effects.

Not enough AI on cycle however and you grow tits, which can be with you the rest of your life.

I hear people here drone out about sacrificing gains if E is too low but as far as I am concerned its all bro-science. You cant compare results from a current cycle compared to your last cycle and say you gained less and therefor less gains was due to lower E. There are waaaay too many variable, not to mentioned its your second cycle and you should have more mass meaning next one likely results in less gains anyway.

Ideally you want your E to be within lab range, the only way to accurately see where your E is on a cycle is to have been on a consistent dose of AI from the start and gets labs 4-6 weeks in.

This is all another reason why keeping your cycles simple is recommended to new users. it allows them to learn how their bodies respond to a single AAS. When a newbie runs a super complex stack they cant tell whats working, what isnt and if there are problems, whats the source.

 

[stevesmi]

zygie is right.

AI's should be molded to best fit your specific situation. good for you to run bloods here. your estrogen was getting out of control and you got the gyno. so the solution is to keep that down. if you want to grab some aromasin PM me. i can hook you up with a great deal from ag guys

i always tell guys they need to have AI's on hand and ramp them up or down based on what happens on cycle. some guys get frustrated cause they want to map out an entire cycle and get mad at me.. but i am just being honest. you have to find your own way when you cycle and dosages are just estimates.. doesn't mean they will work for you if they worked for someone else

the aromasin i used btw last cycle i posted up bloods on here.. my E dropped from 44 to 27 in 1 week when i used it.. so it is legit stuff.