Huck, Slopain, Ulter, Cocdezl help me, my doc won't.

[Yozzer]

Bros, this is the situation. 7 months ago I had a blood test to check my testosterone whilst I was in mid cycle of testex and deca. My test levels were 70+. Don't ask why i had them checked. Anyway, the doc scared me so i came off cold turkey. 1 month later I had them checked again and they were seriously abnormally low....about level 3. 4 months later I was to have them checked again, but this time I took 300mg clomid day 1, 100mg clomid 10 days and 50mg clomid 10 days beforehand. However, they were still low even after this. They had raised to only 4. I saw an endocrinologist 1 month ago ( 3 months after my last check). He basically asked me how I felt and I said fine, which i do. Then he said go have another check and if they are still low come back in 4 months (twat!!). Anyway, i had the check and i found out today they are still low, almost 7/8 months after i stopped my cycle. The endo said if they are still low in 4 months time when i go back to see him (which they will be) he'll put me on test replacement. However, i'm so depressed at the mo I don't even want to train. What the hell should I do?? Go on gear? What? Please help. Its so hard training knowing test is low. I just can't seem to put size on and I even think i'm getting symptoms of feminization eg. fatty nipples, increased fat deposits, can't put muscle on for the life of me.

Yozzer.

 

[ORGANON CANON]

You should go on a low dose of test, like 200mg enathate every 7-10 days. If you are going to be put on test replacement anyways don't worry about your test levels because they will be shutdown again after they out you on.

What is your age?

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

You're in a state of upregulated aromitase,and clomid does not seem to be potent enough by itself to block off free-circulating estrogen from your hypothalamus and pituitary.I suggest you get ahold of some arimidex ASAP to down-regulate aromitase and lower your free-circulating estrogen levels and stack it with clomid.The two together should work much better.I would also suggest in your particular case,daily injecting HCG in conjunction with the above two compounds.Inject 500i.u. daily for one week straight,this will give you a surge in endogenous test production,and the arimidex and clomid should keep the estrogen in check....

 

[Frackal]

Huck, you are the shit bro. Mucho informado!

 

[cockdezl]

Like Huck said, get some Arimidex and Clomid. The Arimidex should reduce estrogen synthesis, while Clomid will block any estrogen in the hypothalamus. I personally would stay away from HCG, since it may reduce the release of LH, or desensitize the pituitary to LH's effects.

Something else to try would be Bromocryptine or Selegiline. Both have been shown to increase gonadotrophins, due to their effects on dopaminergic pathways. Try 1-2.5 mg of either drug/day, BUT not both at the same time.

 

[Ulter]

I guess huck, cockdezl and I all sound like arimidex salesmen but that's exactly what I would recommend as well. In one study it increased test levels by an average of 58%. HCG is tough call here, it may be of benefit, it may not. You can certainly add it later if you still need it after taking more clomid and adding the arimidex. Don't freak about this though. I have had low test levels my whole life. I had low test for years before I ever took steroids and it never affected my health in any negative way. It's just a fact of life for some guys AND girls. My wife has low test. Seriously, she has very low test levels for a girl. I think your doc is waiting too long to treat this though. He is most likely trying to feel you out and make sure you're not doing something to get that test out of him. Dick. If you do what was posted here you may not get that test from him because yours will go up doing this. But your own peace of mind is probably more important than a little androgel.

 

[Stew Meat]

Cock, do you think that HCG might lend do desensitization if you only use 4 injections over a 2 week time period... My logic is that it will help to get natural levels high enough to aid in combating cortisol and restoring a benefical level of androgens while clomid helps to jump start the HPTA.



-Stew

 

[Yozzer]

Cock, do you think that HCG might lend do desensitization if you only use 4 injections over a 2 week time period... My logic is that it will help to get natural levels high enough to aid in combating cortisol and restoring a benefical level of androgens while clomid helps to jump start the HPTA.



-Stew

Hmmm...???? Bump.........

 

[cockdezl]

"Cock, do you think that HCG might lend do desensitization if you only use 4 injections over a 2 week time period... My logic is that it will help to get natural levels high enough to aid in combating cortisol and restoring a benefical level of androgens while clomid helps to jump start the HPTA."

STEW, my reasoning stems from the assumption that elevating test levels with gonadotrophins, before the HPTA gets restored, will cause negative feedback again. The HPTA needs low test and estrogen to restore function, and by artificially raising them, will initiate a counterproductive action.

Also, the hypothalamic inhibition caused by adding high levels of LH back into the system, may cause further negative feedback.

Again, this is just an assumption, HCG may work, but I really have never seen any research showing that HCG restored HPTA function. It simply works as long as it is present in the system.

I mentioned the two dopaminergics because some hypogonadotrophic states are due to high prolactin levels. The use of either agents will reduce prolactin, and may increase LH levels. Plus Selegiline makes people feel good.

 

[2Thick]

Forget about the arimidex. It is a waste of money. Just buy and use proviron (50mg/day) and Nolvadex (30mg/day) until you feel better (or a test verifies close to normal levels).

I will agree that using synthetic test will not be productive in the long run.

 

[Yozzer]

I should point out that my LH, TSH, FSH are low also (I heard him say this, don't know official term or stats). Also, I believe my test levels have always been low. I've been training over 3 years, and the last 2 have been very poor in terms of gains. I've stayed about the same shape and size, though I have trained very hard and not even had any time off (a week etc) except the last few months. I feel very depressed and angry, and am finding it difficult to eat and train knowing it won't make a damn bit of difference. I've made practically no gains for 2 years and it ain't gonna change now. My testosterone has obviously been like this for a long time through bad use of steroids. What do I do?? Take proviron and nolva? clomid? arimidex? (have to work on a low budget - I already have in my possession nolva, proviron and clomid though). I can't wait another 4 months to see the endocrinologist again, and I don't think it will have changed much. I certainly don't want test replacement for the rest of my life.
As far as 'feeling better'........I feel fine, no presence of the sides associated with low test, other than slight disinterest in sex (though I've been with my girl 3 years so this may be the reason, hehe) and difficulty in putting muscle mass on. Also, I eat very well and train hard, but cannot get rid of the fat round my waist and chest area.

Yozzer.