How to use AAS and NOT shut down HPTA

[Realgains]

There is a way to use a very short acting roid and not affect testosterone production much if at all.

If you limit high androgen levels in the blood to half a day then the HPT axis will not shut down. Testosterone production shuts down due to prolonged 24 high androgen levels over several days and will not shut down if androgen levels are allowed to return to normal for many hours each day.

A good example of this is using d-bol 25 mg upon awakening in the AM followed by 15 mg at noon. By late afternoon androgen levels will have dropped and then the body has a full evening and night at normal levels.

Grant it this method will not result in the absolute best gains due to the fact that androgen levels are not high around the clock BUT it will produce decent gains, especailly if one works out in the AM.

Bill Roberts has had good success with this plan. He recommends using clomid with the cycle for further testosterone support.

 

[Twitched]

It sounds good.. but the halflife isn't THAT short.. 10mg of dbol almost instantly quadruples serum testosterone..


Maybe if you took ALL of them at 8 o clock in the morning, then MIGHT be okay by the time you hit the sack..

But.. sleepy time is also important for muscle building...

Might end up with half results and a pretty much shut down hpta to boot.

If bridging with var, then I certainly agree.. taking it all at 8am makes most sense.. I just don't know if I think it would work with something like dbol..

 

[Riker29]

I have heard of people doing very brief cycles of Tren (Fina) for like 10-14 days, without shutdown occurring.

 

[el cubano]

Ya, since we have clomid I don't think that the small gains would be worth the time on such a cycle. But good post.

 

[Realgains]

It sounds good.. but the halflife isn't THAT short.. 10mg of dbol almost instantly quadruples serum testosterone..


Maybe if you took ALL of them at 8 o clock in the morning, then MIGHT be okay by the time you hit the sack..

But.. sleepy time is also important for muscle building...

Might end up with half results and a pretty much shut down hpta to boot.

If bridging with var, then I certainly agree.. taking it all at 8am makes most sense.. I just don't know if I think it would work with something like dbol..

I am not sure what you mean by 10 mg of d-bol quadruples serum test......

After 8 hours of dbol administration the androgen is clear from the blood stream bro and it is time to take clomid(if doing a regular type cycle with d-bol)

Steroid researcher Bill Roberts says that this method does not shut down the axis and it has also worked well for me.

Remenber bro the axis wil not shut down unless adrogen levels remain high around the clock.

 

[Realgains]

Ya, since we have clomid I don't think that the small gains would be worth the time on such a cycle. But good post.

Well I just posted it for those that are really concerned about HPTA shut down (even with clomid) like a newbie for example.

I think this would be a good newbie cycle for 6 weeks or so

 

[Realgains]

I have heard of people doing very brief cycles of Tren (Fina) for like 10-14 days, without shutdown occurring.

Bro 14 days of tren will shut you down but probably only at the level of the hypothalamus...... the pituitary goes to sleep after a couple weeks and results in a deeper type of shut down.
Bill Roberts also has had good results wilth two week cycles as long as roids are used with very short half lives. Test levels rebound very quickly with a 2 week cycle....see my two weeks on 4 weeks off post.

 

[Twitched]

DBol's half life is 4 hours.

So assume you took 25 in the AM, then 10 more 4 hours later.

8 hours from the first dose, you would have 25/4 + 10/2 mg of dbol left in your system.. Thats.. 11mg.. then say 8 more hours before bedtime.. two more halflives.. 2.5mg in bloodstream at bedtime..

Hmm.. that is pretty low, might work.

Good post.

 

[Realgains]

Guys I forgot to explain why the clomid helps keep test production up....

some may not know that high levels of estrogen will suppress T production and since dball is quite estrogenic an estrogen blocker is needed. Clomid will do the trick here as will Nolvadex and both will help keep ones good cholesterol up(hdl) 17aa roids are noted to screw up hdl.
Alternatively you could use a small amount of arimidex but it will actually worsen hdl The addition of nolva or clomid with the arimidex should prevent this though.

 

[Dai Kaioushin]

I've just finished my first short(2 wks) cycle. I used 50mgs of dbol throughout these 14 days, used test prop at 100 mgs per day for 11 days, nolva at 20mgs and proviron at 25mgs. I went from 245 lbs to 259. My bench went up from 230 to 250, squats from 305 to 330 etc. I'm off of these drugs from yesterday. I hope that clen and clomid will help me not to lose too much. Everything will turn out soon.
I'm also planning to cut a little bit up as soon as possible. Realgains can you tell me what is the earliest date when I can start cutting in your opinion? 1 week or 2 weeks or more?

Thanks anyway,
Dai Kaioushin

 

[RdStrcklnd]

Realgains, how would one run clomid or preferrably nolvadex on a cycle like that?

 

[Realgains]

I've just finished my first short(2 wks) cycle. I used 50mgs of dbol throughout these 14 days, used test prop at 100 mgs per day for 11 days, nolva at 20mgs and proviron at 25mgs. I went from 245 lbs to 259. My bench went up from 230 to 250, squats from 305 to 330 etc. I'm off of these drugs from yesterday. I hope that clen and clomid will help me not to lose too much. Everything will turn out soon.
I'm also planning to cut a little bit up as soon as possible. Realgains can you tell me what is the earliest date when I can start cutting in your opinion? 1 week or 2 weeks or more?

Thanks anyway,
Dai Kaioushin

That is great bro......two week cycles can be pretty good providing one uses quick acting roids at fairly high doses and with front loads in order to get the ball rolling immediately. Your test levels will come back very quickly bro cause you are shut down only at the level of the hypothalamus and not the pituitary(because of the short duration of the cycle.) The pituitary needs over two weeks to start shutting down)

My guess is that you will keep all your gains, unless you didn't use arimidex, in which case you will still keep all your muscle gains but will loose weight and size and a tad of strength.

I am not sure what you mean by cutting....do you plan a cutting cycle or just dieting with aerobics?

 

[Dai Kaioushin]

My guess is that you will keep all your gains, unless you didn't use arimidex, in which case you will still keep all your muscle gains but will loose weight and size and a tad of strength.

I am not sure what you mean by cutting....do you plan a cutting cycle or just dieting with aerobics?

No, I didn't use arimidex, just nolva and proviron at a moderate dose as mentioned above.

I don't want to do a cutting cycle bro, 'cos I would like to do another quick cycle the same way... Just would like to lose 3-5 solid pounds before the next cycle with only clen.

thx,
Dai Kaioushin

 

[Realgains]

Realgains, how would one run clomid or preferrably nolvadex on a cycle like that?

Clomid 50 mg per day and then continue on with it for a couple weeks post cycle just to be safe.

Nolva 20mg per day(Nolva is more effective mg per mg than clomid) You could then continue on with the Nolva post cycle like you would with Clomid because they basically do the same thing and there is at least one Guru that actually prefers Nolva post cycle over clomid(Bill Llewellyn)
Or you could switch to Clomid post cycle for a couple weeks.

If using arimidex and Clomid or Nolva for hdl support then use arimidex at .5 tab every other day and Nolva at 20 or clomid at 50 per day.

Don't stay on this cycle for more than 6 weeks even though the liver gets a break from the dball every day.
To be extra safe use some Tylers detox tabs or ALA.

25 mg of dball in the am and 15 at noon may have some affect on your test production but Bill Roberts says it won't if you take some kind of estrogen blocker/inhibitor. Just doing 25 and no noon dose in the am and an hour before working out should get you some gains and would be the safest way to go in regard to avoiding test shut down.

Remember bro's this type of cycle is far inferior to a regular cycle of say dball at 30- 50 per day in five divided doses throughout the day but then again it is better than being totally natural......

I would call this type of roid use "supplemental" and great for those with cold feet or a newbie or for someone that wishes to minimize the affect roids have on HPTA.

 

[Realgains]

No, I didn't use arimidex, just nolva and proviron at a moderate dose as mentioned above.

I don't want to do a cutting cycle bro, 'cos I would like to do another quick cycle the same way... Just would like to lose 3-5 solid pounds before the next cycle with only clen.

thx,
Dai Kaioushin

Oh my mind din't see the proviron bro...good choice too.

Ya go ahead and cut bro. Wait 4 weeks and then do another two week cycle. Be careful with the aerobics and dieting or you will loose some muscle tissue.(I do not believe that clen is anabolic in humans.)

Try this next for the ultimate two week affect. Tren 100mg on day one and then 50-75 per day. Winny 50 per day. Dball 50 per day in 6 divided doses. Stop the tren after day 11 injection and the d-bol and winny after day 14 doses. Hit the clomid on day 15.
Use proviron like before or arimidex at .5 tab per day. (contact Zyglamail for the best price on arimidex)

If you ever use the prop again be sure to front load it at 300mg on day one bro

 

[ryker77]

All that sounds good... But I wish I would have started AS and stayd on till I reached the size I want. I've had a roller coaster ride of gain it loose it. Mostly due to having two hernias in the past two years both at the end of a cycle.

I going to get on and stay on testosterone till I reach 210-220. I'll be using low dosages and just bridge between cycles with 200mgs of test per week. Since I have a hook up I'll be getting monthly blood work done and from that I'll adjust the amounts.

But I do like the ideal of taking the dbol in the morning and perhaps some ZMA at night time. Seams like a good combo.

 

[Dai Kaioushin]

Try this next for the ultimate two week affect. Tren 100mg on day one and then 50-75 per day. Winny 50 per day. Dball 50 per day in 6 divided doses. Stop the tren after day 11 injection and the d-bol and winny after day 14 doses. Hit the clomid on day 15.
Use proviron like before or arimidex at .5 tab per day. (contact Zyglamail for the best price on arimidex)

If you ever use the prop again be sure to front load it at 300mg on day one bro

Bro that is a shitload amount of stuff, I dunno but my blood pressure can be more elevated with those than using prop and dbol(It was around 160/105 the 2nd week).

I forgot to mention that I front loaded the prop as you advised in your another thread.

 

[Realgains]

Bro that is a shitload amount of stuff, I dunno but my blood pressure can be more elevated with those than using prop and dbol(It was around 160/105 the 2nd week).

I forgot to mention that I front loaded the prop as you advised in your another thread.

Ya I know that is a lot of gear but for best results in a short period of time you really do need it.(I dropped the prop though) Very rapid and complete receptor saturation is needed with these very short cycles.

I am not one for advocating mega doses of juice as Quadsweep "The Voice of Reason" can attest to, BUT, with the very short cycle best results will be seen doing pretty big doses.

Note:....Sides will not be bad with a two week cycle, even with my gear and dose schedule. Most sides come on through time. The cycle I mentioned will have less affect in the sides department than a much milder but longer cycle.

About your blood pressure. The addition of winny and tren will not affect your BP much if at all bro. The only roids that really affect BP much are those that aromatize. It is this estrogen from aromatization that causes water retention and it is water retension that raises BP..... the answer to your BP problem is simple...use arimidex.