I started at 6'4" 170 in '99. Got up to 265 natural but high bf about 10 months ago. At that point i tried to loose bfat natty and did quite well, but also did a good job of doing too much cardio and lost some hard earned muscle. So I had to stop the cardio and start EATING again. Started juice weighing about 260-263lbs. and again had gained not as much bfat but still was high...taking gear i started eating really strict, very little cheating or getting off of the diet...I got down to 248lbs at the leanest bfat I've ever had just this past cycle. So, on gear I gained approx. 10-15 muscle and lost 15-20 fat. Remember it's how you look at the end of your cycle, don't look at the scale to measure your success mainly, look in the mirror.