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How Do Cathlolics explain.....

Turd Ferguson

New member
Neanderthal's.

All these mtDNA tests on the 'missing link' to determine if they are like us in any way. I seen a study that suggests DNA from the Russian version of the Neanderthals is 7% different. Which I guess in DNA land is a lot. I guess if you think that we evolved from apes you can't beleave in gensis?
 
It is irrelevant to Catholics. We don't have a "bible only" or as literal a translation of the bible (the two are tied together) as most Christian denominations.

The Church accepts the possibility of evolution, and views is at a means to an end. (meaning it doesn't negate the presence of a Creator)
 
What does it matter what Catholics think? They all worship this so called “man of god” that’s 200 years old that wears a two story hat that sits on a throne drooling all over himself while a bunch of people in capes chant while priest are raping little boys.

As for Neanderthals (An extinct human species or subspecies) there is no such thing
 
JerseyArt said:
It is irrelevant to Catholics. We don't have a "bible only" or as literal a translation of the bible (the two are tied together) as most Christian denominations.

The Church accepts the possibility of evolution, and views is at a means to an end. (meaning it doesn't negate the presence of a Creator)

Jersey has to be the most well-rounded ef poster...he know's a little of this and that
:nerd:
 
big_bad_buff said:
What does it matter what Catholics think? They all worship this so called “man of god” that’s 200 years old that wears a two story hat that sits on a throne drooling all over himself while a bunch of people in capes chant while priest are raping little boys.
 
Gambino said:
Jersey has to be the most well-rounded ef poster...he know's a little of this and that
:nerd:


The beneficiary of a solid Jesuit education.
 
JerseyArt said:
The beneficiary of a solid Jesuit education.

You fancy/pretty east coasters got all the wasp/arstocrat trappings... :artist:
 
God chose humans as His image, evolution occured of course.

The first five books of the bible are a liturgy for the Jewish folk of that time, not ever to be taken literally, it serves to teach lessons and instill morals. The major redactors of the bible (Elohisht, Yahwishts, Priestly, Deuteronimicals) helped bring upon the travesty that American Christianity is today, this includes literal acceptance of issues that are obviously insulting to one's intelligence.
 
JerseyArt said:
It is irrelevant to Catholics. We don't have a "bible only" or as literal a translation of the bible (the two are tied together) as most Christian denominations.

The Church accepts the possibility of evolution, and views is at a means to an end. (meaning it doesn't negate the presence of a Creator)

But if you beleave in gensis it says that all man came from Adam and Eve and were born into sin becuase they ate the forbidden fruit. So I guess what your saying is that we can't take that literally.
 
havoc said:
God chose humans as His image, evolution occured of course.

The first five books of the bible are a liturgy for the Jewish folk of that time, not ever to be taken literally, it serves to teach lessons and instill morals. The major redactors of the bible (Elohisht, Yahwishts, Priestly, Deuteronimicals) helped bring upon the travesty that American Christianity is today, this includes literal acceptance of issues that are obviously insulting to one's intelligence.

Gensis is pretty important to the foundation. If it were not for Eve ( not Adam mind you ) being tempted by the devil and eating the apple all mankind wouldn't have to be born with original sin. I'm just trying to understand how the religious explain the old world eveloution vs. a young world \ Adam and Eve.

According to the bible death is a punishment for sin, I cannot accept "progressive creation" a.k.a. "God used evolution." I believe that for God to have used evolution to create man, it creates two problems I can think off the top of my head. 1) Death before sin And 2) It allows for the fact that God, who is infalliable, couldn't create man without a bunch of mistakes along the way (isn't that what evolution is?).
 
Turd Ferguson said:
But if you beleave in gensis it says that all man came from Adam and Eve and were born into sin becuase they ate the forbidden fruit. So I guess what your saying is that we can't take that literally.


The fall happened. But no, Genesis isn't taken literally. God did not create the universe in seven days, or at least it isn't necessary to believe He did as a Catholic. No one was there.

For Catholics the Bible isn't the end all and be all of the faith. It makes no sennse to us that it would be. For one the books were at best written decades after the death of Christ, and the book itself wasn't compiled till 400 years later (by Catholics). It was never intended as a primer on " How to be a Christian". Hell, a good portion of it outlines solutions to problems of a Church already in existence.:) No where does it state "this is what you need to do/believe to be a Christian.

This was never an issue until the Reformation, when Luther and others, who had determined to throw off the millenia old authority of the Chruch, needed to find a substitute. Hence the concept of "bible only" was born, and the unfounded notion that "everything you need to know is in here" was established
 
JerseyArt said:
The fall happened. But no, Genesis isn't taken literally. God did not create the universe in seven days, or at least it isn't necessary to believe He did as a Catholic. No one was there.

For Catholics the Bible isn't the end all and be all of the faith. It makes no sennse to us that it would be. For one the books were at best written decades after the death of Christ, and the book itself wasn't compiled till 400 years later (by Catholics). It was never intended as a primer on " How to be a Christian". Hell, a good portion of it outlines solutions to problems of a Church already in existence.:) No where does it state "this is what you need to do/believe to be a Christian.

This was never an issue until the Reformation, when Luther and others, who had determined to throw off the millenia old authority of the Chruch, needed to find a substitute. Hence the concept of "bible only" was born, and the unfounded notion that "everything you need to know is in here" was established
Sounds to me that all christians who 'preach' need to get on the same page if they are going to talk about the origins of man and why we need to worship their God. Which is why I asked the question.

Here's a website I found:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Docs/370.asp
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Sounds to me that all christians who 'preach' need to get on the same page if they are going to talk about the origins of man and why we need to worship their God. Which is why I asked the question.

Here's a website I found:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Docs/370.asp


Turd,

Im familair with the argument on the link, but I don't think you can expect to sway many with the analysis. If they believe matter can originate from nothing, then the easy answer is simply that science has not as of yet discovered the answer. It's plausible enough , especially in realtion to the existence of a Creator.

I'm uncertain what you mean by "getting on the same page" The Church has been on the same page for thousands of years. Christian denominations are the ones constantly spintering and coming up with new varied versions of the "truth." There must be at least hundreds of different denominations now, if not more.
 
The Ejaculator said:
I doubt that is it...

You fools going to lunch? I am going over to FB for the Onion Soup with Kimber....

I have to return a golf club. Maybe stop by and see Kerry too. Say hello to the vixen.
 
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhh, cause this board can't go more than a month without rehashing the greater power arguement and saying the same shit over and over..
 
Burning_Inside said:
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhh, cause this board can't go more than a month without rehashing the greater power arguement and saying the same shit over and over..
 
JerseyArt said:
The Church has been on the same page for thousands of years.


:lmao: ... didn't they just let Gallelao out of pergatory? "Hey ya know.. that assnugget was right.. the sun doesn't rotate around the earth"

Hmmm... I also remember them admiting the earth was older than 4-5k years like they have claimed for centuries.... this was in the 80's if I remember right..

They are constantly relenting to science.... but only after they are beaten over the head with the obvious truth...

Sorry, but the 'Church' is a fucking joke....
 
JerseyArt said:
Turd,

Im familair with the argument on the link, but I don't think you can expect to sway many with the analysis. If they believe matter can originate from nothing, then the easy answer is simply that science has not as of yet discovered the answer. It's plausible enough , especially in realtion to the existence of a Creator.

I'm uncertain what you mean by "getting on the same page" The Church has been on the same page for thousands of years. Christian denominations are the ones constantly spintering and coming up with new varied versions of the "truth." There must be at least hundreds of different denominations now, if not more.

A guy on another board said that he thinks aliens droped off the 'life' and let it snowballed from there. I thought that was interesting. Mr. Grey was haning with Jesus in the begining.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
A guy on another board said that he thinks aliens droped off the 'life' and let it snowballed from there. I thought that was interesting. Mr. Grey was haning with Jesus in the begining.


Bor, I have no idea what that means.
 
The Ejaculator said:
:lmao: ... didn't they just let Gallelao out of pergatory? "Hey ya know.. that assnugget was right.. the sun doesn't rotate around the earth"

Hmmm... I also remember them admiting the earth was older than 4-5k years like they have claimed for centuries.... this was in the 80's if I remember right..

They are constantly relenting to science.... but only after they are beaten over the head with the obvious truth...

Sorry, but the 'Church' is a fucking joke....


LOL, solid grasp of history you have there bor. Except for all the statements being inaccurate, you might have had something.
 
JerseyArt said:
LOL, solid grasp of history you have there bor. Except for all the statements being inaccurate, you might have had something.

okie dokie...

I guess they didn't tourture/imprision him for saying the earth rotated around the sun.... :rolleyes:
 
The Ejaculator said:
okie dokie...

I guess they didn't tourture/imprision him for saying the earth rotated around the sun.... :rolleyes:


Exactly, now you've got ot right. See, you're already smarter for having posted on this thread. Glad to help
 
I have no idea what you linked, nor do I care to waste the time verifying its credibility

Capernicus first stated the theory that the earth resolved around the sun, and was lavished upon by the Church.The Church was one of the primary patrons of him and other scientists, and at the time, was just about the only organization even interested in science. Galileo has little to do with the matter aside from pushing the theory of Capernicus. His contributions were in other areas, including the telescope (which was displayed in the Vatican.

He was actually good friends with Pope Urban. He was never tortured or blinded (although he did go blind from natural causes). And his "imprisonment" was in the homes of various wealthy friends. He was even pensioned by the Church, and the Poep himself blessed him at his funeral
 
"He (Galileo) was shown the implements of torture, as though they were to be used." -- Jacob Bronowski.

The effect of such a threat on an intelligent man's imagination is arguably worse than their actual use would have been.
 
digger said:
"He (Galileo) was shown the implements of torture, as though they were to be used." -- Jacob Bronowski.

The effect of such a threat on an intelligent man's imagination is arguably worse than their actual use would have been.


Personally I prefer just seeing them. But that's just me:)

He confessed to the Inquisition. Twice I think, the first time being a promise to discontinue. It was a travesty, no two ways about it.

Unfortunately he managed to get tied to some groups who wanted to abolish religion altogether, and discredit the scriptures entirely. There were many symapthetic Bishops, and Urban himself was sympathetc to the man (although he wouldnt overturn the Inquisitions findings).

It was less about science (Capernicus said it without consequence) than politics at the time
 
JerseyArt said:
Personally I prefer just seeing them. But that's just me:)

He confessed to the Inquisition. Twice I think, the first time being a promise to discontinue. It was a travesty, no two ways about it.

Unfortunately he managed to get tied to some groups who wanted to abolish religion altogether, and discredit the scriptures entirely. There were many symapthetic Bishops, and Urban himself was sympathetc to the man (although he wouldnt overturn the Inquisitions findings).

It was less about science (Capernicus said it without consequence) than politics at the time


Like I said... he was imprisioned for professing the truth by the church. Call it politics... whatever. The church hasn't been on the same page for thousands of years, because they now admit they were wrong...

That's all I was saying. They constantly are pulling that crap... 'oh, wait... we were wrong'
 
ChefWide said:
Georgetown? Or secondary school buggering?

;)

There are some other jesuit schools too, Creighton, SLU, Loyola, probably others...

BTW I resent this thread because I am catholic, and probably a large part neanderthal as well....
 
Becoming said:
There are some other jesuit schools too, Creighton, SLU, Loyola, probably others...

BTW I resent this thread because I am catholic, and probably a large part neanderthal as well....


I resent you... :evil:
 
The Ejaculator said:
I resent you... :evil:

I am so going to kick your ass all over when I finally get back to STL!

(I just missed my 10 yr HS reunion last summer-so it will probably be in another 4 years or so...)
 
Becoming said:
I am so going to kick your ass all over when I finally get back to STL!

(I just missed my 10 yr HS reunion last summer-so it will probably be in another 4 years or so...)


Pitbull has my back... BIOTCH....


:worried: At least I think he does......
 
The Ejaculator said:
Pitbull has my back... BIOTCH....


:worried: At least I think he does......

He and I will take you to the gym, tie your ass to the bench and drop 500lbs on you bitch!
 
Becoming said:
He and I will take you to the gym, tie your ass to the bench and drop 500lbs on you bitch!

:rolleyes: Like it would take both of you apes....

You saw my pic.... I am not much bigger than my g/f.... :worried:
 
The Ejaculator said:
Like I said... he was imprisioned for professing the truth by the church. Call it politics... whatever. The church hasn't been on the same page for thousands of years, because they now admit they were wrong...

That's all I was saying. They constantly are pulling that crap... 'oh, wait... we were wrong'


What you actually wrote was "I guess they didn't tourture/imprision him for saying the earth rotated around the sun.... "

That is incorrect.

And the Church has been on the same page for all that time. There are no contradictions with respect to the body of faith with respect to creation or otherwise.

All science, not just accepted Catholic versions (the Church has no real position on any matter of science related to this discussion except where there are moral issues involved) believed that the earth was stationary, and everything revolved around the earth.

Capernicus came up with a new theory and the Church congrtaulated him, and even welcomed and supported him. The same was true of Galileo. The Church not only encouraged new scientific discovery, it funded the same (again, inclusive of Galileo).

Unfortunately he then became involved with groups which wanted to discredit scripture. They used him by attaching literal translations of the gospels (which up to then were understood to believe the earth was stationary) and basically did a "see, it's all a lie" That made him lots of enemies.

They essentially asked him to shut the fuck up until new interpretaions, consistent with the new science, could be formulated so as to not upset and confuse people. There are several Bishops who are on record as stating just that. Specifically, that the scriptures needed to be reexamined with respect to meaning in light of this new knowledge. He promised to shut the hell up for a while, then didnt. Even when he came back to Rome he was met with a warm reception despite that broken promise.

People werent stupid. We always assume everyone who came before us was a moron. The Church not only accepted his views, but at various points praised them and funded them. It was a matter of politics, and powerful enemies. Pope Urban let him live otu his "imprisonment" in mansions and estates. Even when he was being tried he was "jailed" in lavish apartments and pensioned.
 
The Ejaculator said:
:rolleyes: Like it would take both of you apes....

You saw my pic.... I am not much bigger than my g/f.... :worried:

I am sure he is really going to help you now that you called him an ape!

LOL

Actually there is a chance I might be by there for a day in the fall... we will see what happens...
 
JerseyArt said:
until new interpretaions, consistent with the new science, could be formulated :worried:

It was a matter of politics, and powerful enemies. Pope Urban let him live otu his "imprisonment" in mansions and estates. Even when he was being tried he was "jailed" in lavish apartments and pensioned.

They asked for time to adjust their dogmatic bullshit... IMO, no offense.

When he didn't comply, they threatened him with bodily harm and then imprisoned him. It was very very nice of them to 'let' him live out his imprisonment in mansions and the such... nice bunch of peeps... :evil:
 
The Ejaculator said:
They asked for time to adjust their dogmatic bullshit... IMO, no offense.

When he didn't comply, they threatened him with bodily harm and then imprisoned him. It was very very nice of them to 'let' him live out his imprisonment in mansions and the such... nice bunch of peeps... :evil:

Whooosh

Ther was no dogma to adjust. The Church had no set opinion on the matter. Like with modern day Christians though, in the absence of an official chuch position that was conclusive, people interpreted the matter literally. Most Christian denominations still do.

What they wanted was time to write explanations and disseminate information. People took these matters seriously, especially since they were being used to try and discredit the entire faith. In many ways they probably saved his life from others
 
i'll go ahead and post this for the evolutionists and wont hold my breath for any replies

Page numbers without book references refer to the book, DNA AND CELLS, from which these facts are summarized. An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the set of books this Encyclopedia is based on only 164 statements are by creationists.

Complex systems whether mechanical or biological require energy, matter and intelligent programming of information content. Such understanding is plainly obvious when one has experience in software programming as well as engineering and mechanical design. Fully functioning complex machines and systems require precise programming of information. Turning on and off computers or entering random data into a computer does not create operational programming functions. In the same way the vastly more complex and sophisticated programming of DNA and its double helix complex structure does not lend itself to the lack of intelligent design. The mathematical possibility of such a complex structure arising in a primordial "soup" through random chance was calculated by Sir Fred Hoyle to be one in 10 to the 30,000 power or in simple terms- statistically impossible.

THE DNA MOLECULE

DNA provides the basic codes that each plant and animal is made according to. The evolutionists' problem is the fact that DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) has such complicated codes and locks each type of creature into its own pattern. Because of this, it would be impossible for evolution (which is the origin of species and change across species) to occur.
Inside every cell in your body is a microscopic ball. Inside it is a coiled six-foot strip of code! It is your DNA code, the primary code for your entire body. The whole thing is amazing.
In the center of each cell is a nucleus, and, among the complicated things in it, are 23 pairs of chromosomes. These are the strips, and on them are genes. They are like beads on a chain. Each gene has a large number of DNA units. There are about 60 thousand billion (60,000 x 1,000,000,000) cells in your body! Each one has your complete code. This code fixes your physical characteristics; it is your gene pool. All the data in each code set is equivalent to an unabridged dictionary.

It is clear that only a super mind could make all this! God made you; you did not make yourself. Seawater did not slosh around and do it.—pp. 11-14.

Translation package needed. Not only was that astounding DNA code needed in your body for it to exist, but a translation code had to be there also!

Termed an "adapter function," this machinery had to be in your body—the first instant it came into being. Yet it could not be produced by accident.

No scientist can begin to explain how your body obtained the translation package, much less the DNA code.—pp. 14-15.

Messenger RNA. Not only is the DNA code and code translator needed, but also messenger units.

These are called "messenger RNA" molecules, or "s-RNA."

There is a specific s-RNA for each individual amino acid. They pass the message for the code, so that a certain type of amino acid can be made.
So you are a living computer and did not know it. Throughout the body and in each cell, we find the most advanced scientific technology and apparatus. Just as the "byte" is the basic eight-unit binary pattern in computers, the "codon" is the basic three-nucleotide pattern in living creatures.—p. 15.

The biological compiler. Then there is the "t-DNA," This element carries out the code tasks. Without it, the code would be useless.—pp. 15-16.

DNA indexing. Every computer requires a data bank, so the information can be accessed.

The DNA contains the data bank, but "indexes" are needed in order to find it. These are different than the translators. They are non-DNA chemicals which function to locate specifically needed information.

The production of materials by DNA is triggered by these indexes. Their presence, in turn, initiates further indexing as new materials are made. Additional indexes are to be found in specialized functions, such as nervous, muscular, hormonal, circulatory, etc. The utter complexity of all this is astounding.—p. 16.

Cell switching. This function is needed to switch the DNA codes from one process to another. The signal to do it is provided by other functions, but the actual switch is called the "cell switch."—p. 16.

An exact fit required. Every aspect of the DNA function must be perfect. The polynucleotide strands have to be formed in exactly the shape needed to neatly wrap about the DNA helix molecule. There must be a 100 percent fit.

Scientists, working in million-dollar laboratories, are unable to accurately synthesize the polynucleotides or make them in predetermined sizes and shapes.—p. 16.

Not randomness, but intelligence. It is obvious that nothing about this is random. Everything reveals highly intelligent designing and production. Obviously, a tiny cell cannot be that smart. Who keeps it running right? Who designed it in the beginning? Surely, it did not come together by chance.—pp. 16-17.

Multi-gene characteristics. Did you know that each characteristic in a living creature is controlled by several different genes? This only makes the process all the more complicated.

There would be no way the DNA code could gradually "evolve." Everything had to be there from the beginning.—p. 17.

MATHEMATICAL POSSIBILITIES

Math looks at DNA. DNA is not the result of an accident. The mathematical possibilities that all this intertwining of codes and processors could come together by accident—is totally impossible. That is what the experts tell us.
For example, we are told that the information content of the gene in its complexity must be as great as the enzyme it controls. Yet just one medium-sized protein will consist of about 300 amino acids! That protein was made by a DNA gene, which would have to have about 1,000 nucleotides in its chain. Since there are four kinds of nucleotides in a single DNA chain, one with 1,000 links could exist in 41000 different forms. —That is 4 followed by a thousand zeros!
Yet all this complexity is required to make the simplest living creature.
Everything had to be in place at once from the beginning. Whether it be a one-celled or a multi-celled creature, all the cellular functions had to be there from the start.—pp. 17-18.

Goley's machine. A communications engineer tried to figure the odds for bringing a non-living organism with few parts (only 1,500) up to the point of being able to reproduce itself. Requiring 1,500 right choices from the beginning, he found there was only one chance in 10450 that there could be success. That is 1 followed by 450 zeros.
Yet there are only 1080 particles in all the universe!—pp. 18, 20.
Too many nucleotides. Actually, there are too many nucleotides in DNA for Goley's machine! There are 5,375 nucleotides in the DNA of an extremely small bacterial virus (theta-x-174). There are about 3 million nucleotides in a single cell bacteria.

There are over 3 billion nucleotides in the DNA of a mammalian cell. (People and most animals are mammals.)
A "nucleotide" is a complex chemical structure composed of certain chemicals. Each one of the thousands in your DNA cells are aligned sequentially in a very specific order! Imagine 3 billion complicated chemical links, each one of which has to be in a precisely correct sequence!—p. 20.
Not possible by chance. The possibility that a pile of sand or a mud puddle could make any living creature—is totally remote. It just could not happen.
The truth is that something totally impossible can never happen. If I throw a book into the air, it will never change into a live pigeon, never.
The evolutionary error is that, if something is totally impossible, it will eventually happen, if given enough time. Accepting such an error is self-deception in the extreme.

Wysong explains why evolution is totally impossible:
"1 / 1089190 DNA molecules, on the average, must form to provide the one chance of forming the specific DNA sequence necessary to code the 124 proteins. 1089190 DNAs would weigh 1089147 times more than the earth."—p. 20.

DNA different in each species. Although it is utterly impossible for DNA to be formed by chance for even one species,—the DNA codes for each species is different from another! This only multiplies the odds against all the living creatures in the world having been formed by chance! (By "species," we mean basic kinds; the "species" listed by biologists are sometimes varieties of a single true species.)—pp. 20-21.

AMINO ACIDS AND PROTEIN

Complexities of protein. The complexities of protein are so great, that the various kinds (of which there are 20 essential types) could never have been made by chance.—pp. 21-23.
Synthesized proteins. Scientists are now able to make protein from chemicals. Evolutionists claim that, therefore, seawater could do it by chance also. But keep this in mind:
The scientists have million-dollar laboratories, and are specially trained. They have to purchase special chemicals made by chemical companies. Yet the proteins they produce are random types. It is impossible to make them in the right pattern or sequence. What they get is in no particular sequence or use. It is also impossible to make only left-handed ones, which are the only kind in animals.—pp. 23-24.

Consider the chances. What are the chances of a million-dollar laboratory correctly synthesizing left-hand amino acids for one small protein molecule? It is 1 in 10210. That is 1 with 210 zeros after it.
To properly understand the immense size of these impossible chances, consider this:
Ten billion years is 1018 seconds. The earth weighs 1026 ounces. The entire universe has a diameter of only 1028 inches. There are 1080 elementary (subatomic) particles in the universe.
Now, please! Compare these numbers with the inconceivably larger numbers needed to accidently produce DNA or protein!
In order to succeed, evolution requires total impossibilities!—pp. 24-25.

point being, evolution is impossible!
 
Last edited:
Seriously confused thread:

1) There is no God and religion is bullshit.

2) Catholics are not some kind of "super christians" as the poster seems to believe. Catholics are probably the worst christians in the world. I am Catholic, see statement #1. Protestants are the people who believe the bible is literally true and that evolution is a lie. Catholics could give a shit how things got here as long as there is alcohol.

3) Go Hoyas!
 
Majutsu

Thanks for clarifying things. It's all so clear now

(1)BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah religion sucks

(2)BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah Catholics suck, and I can say that, cause I used to be Catholic or something

(3)BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahIm an idiot
 
haha so true
majutsu said:
Seriously confused thread:

1) There is no God and religion is bullshit.

2) Catholics are not some kind of "super christians" as the poster seems to believe. Catholics are probably the worst christians in the world. I am Catholic, see statement #1. Protestants are the people who believe the bible is literally true and that evolution is a lie. Catholics could give a shit how things got here as long as there is alcohol.

3) Go Hoyas!
 
Awwww Jerseyart, are your feelings hurt? So sad that your whole life is believing a bunch of archaic bullshit. So sad, too bad.
 
majutsu said:
insert useless hyperbole


I know exactly what you mean orb
 
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