How bad is catabolism, really

[Legion Kreinak2]

I always hear people talking about the catabolic effect of cortisol being released into your system after too much exercise is done, which can then go and breakdown proteins from the muscle tissue and reduce muscle mass.

Now, in all honesty, how bad is catabolism really? I mean, I understand alot of people here are concerned about losing mass considering it revolves around the bodybuilder/powerlifting lifestyle, and every bit of mass counts, but even still... don't people take it too far?

I mean I hear not to do more than 40 minutes of cardio tops when trying to maintain mass. Already you hear about having to stick with the weight training and eating a certain number of calories. Now there's an entire controversey on why any type of physical activity outside of the things you must do daily, and lifting, are harmful to your physique.

Has anyone here had an actual experience where they've done alot of cardio, and lost mass? Was the amount lost noticable, if any? It's a bit ridiculous how people are so anal about it.

Not to say I don't understand why, but for someone looking to have a nice looking body, but who still wants to play sports, or swim, or hike or do whatever when he feels like it -- is catabolism that big a deal? Or so long as training is kept a priority and the nutrition is good, the gains will come and then stay?

 

[jeremys]

it's all about what YOU want to do. i won't even go out without having a meal readily available for fear of catabolism.

yeah, it can get anal, but if you're a perfectionist about things like this, it can only make your progress better.

 

[DrBones]

I personally think most people are a little over board on their fear of catabolism....

I did 45 minutes of cardio a day for 3 months, and consistantly watched my weights go up as if I was doing no cardio...
Obviously you will get better gains when bulking... but I think too much emphasis is put on preventing catabolism when cutting. Even if you do lose a little muscle, it will be a very insignificant ammount, which you will more than gain back when you return to bulking..... I'd say, worst case scenario, its like 3 steps forward, and 1 step back.... You've still gained 2 steps... So why complain about it?

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

What do you think about when one decided to maintain, no longer bulk or return?

Will those insignificant amounts continue to pile on until you've lost most all the mass you gained? I don't know how that can really happen though. Look at all athletes that stay in good shape, and can continue to be muscular...

 

[coolcolj]

overrated, I regularly train over 1.5 hours, I'm not shrinking

 

[WarriorPL]

I also train a good hour to hour and a half.

How do you know if you're im catabolism?

 

[nikkita]

Catabolism comes if someone trains for too long without the proper nutrients, such as when you don't sleep enough and don't eat right... not just muscle mass can be lost but your performance declines as well. But as you mentioned "so long as training is kept a priority and the nutrition is good, the gains will come and then stay".

 

[RusPA81]

Glutamine also helps to reduce catabolism, especially while cutting(Although I have never personally really tried cutting).

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

I heard that when you take glutamine, most of it really isn't absorbed into the body, so it ends up being a waste of your money.

Somewhere else, I've also read that glutamine is useless regardless.

I don't support either, not do I support glutamine simply because I don't know. I've yet to try it.

 

[Fatty4You]

Cortisol is a hormone that breaks down protien. Cortisol concentrations are greatest from mild weight and higher volume exercise. Often, exercise that produces the most lactic acid build up will also create the highest cortisol release.

HOWEVER, such exercise - that produces the greatest lactic acid build up - say with 1 min rests and multi sets of 10RM - will also produce the greatest release of Growth Hormone which is highly anabolic.

In order for muscle to grow, there has to be some sort of remodeling of the protien structure - muscle damage, inflamatory response, rebuilding or protiens, incorporation of new protiens into sacromeres.

The cortisol / Growth hormone response MAY be very important to this muscle remodeling process and help in hypertrophy.

-Fatty

 

[Fatty4You]

Also, increased testostrone levels [in men] from heavy resistance training helps inhibit the effects of cortisol. Plus, test is highly anabolic.

-Fatty

 

[RusPA81]

I heard that when you take glutamine, most of it really isn't absorbed into the body, so it ends up being a waste of your money.

Somewhere else, I've also read that glutamine is useless regardless.

I don't support either, not do I support glutamine simply because I don't know. I've yet to try it.

I have read nothing but good things about glutamine. I just started taking additional glutamine aside to what is already in protein shakes, so we wil see what happens.

 

[Thaibox]

Catabolism- The process in a plant or animal in which living tissue is changed into energy or waste products of a simpler chemical composition; destructive metabolism; opposed to anabolism.
Therefore catabolism = BAD


Our training consists of a set of variables constantly under ideal conditions. Thats why our sport is so challenging. Its a 24 hour a day sport. Our goal in doing everything we do is to keep an anabolic environment under a constant battle with catabolism.

By definition, catabolism is bad.

Will those insignificant amounts continue to pile on until you've lost

This is analogus to reps. Would you stop 1 or 2 reps short of each set during your lifts? Why not?

 

[Fatty4You]

By definition, catabolism is bad.

Ummm. No. Catabolism is breaking down of an energy-rich compound. Yes, you dont want to break down too much of your muscle proteins. But, your muscle cannnot work without ATP molecules, and you produce atp molecules by breaking down fats and carbs and sometimes proteins.... otherwise known as catabolism.

Without catabolism, life functions would NOT be possible.

-Fatty

 

[leancuisine]

awesome thread....

lets hear more.

 

[Thaibox]

Ummm. No. Catabolism is breaking down of an energy-rich compound. Yes, you dont want to break down too much of your muscle proteins. But, your muscle cannnot work without ATP molecules, and you produce atp molecules by breaking down fats and carbs and sometimes proteins.... otherwise known as catabolism.

Without catabolism, life functions would NOT be possible.

-Fatty

Lets not waste time with semantics

Fatty, he's not talking about this aspect of it. If this was the case, we can also say that bad cholesterol is good, and estrogen is what we need. In the same realm, "catabolism" when discussed here is the breakdown of material that we are trying to build, not burn as fuel. Catabolism is the process in which we as lifters have either fucked up somewhere, or are doing something like dieting down for a show or such.

catabolism is inherently opposite of anabolism which is the ideal state of the bodybuilders body. As I stated before, catabolism is bad

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Figuring out that catabolism is bad wasn't my real probelm, but rather, how bad it is.

This is analogus to reps. Would you stop 1 or 2 reps short of each set during your lifts? Why not?

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by this Thai.

From what I've heard thus far, the amount of muscle lost during exercise, isn't anything to worry about. True, as Jeremy had said, gains will prove to be greater if every aspect is taken into consideration. But I for one don't feel I want to run myself into the ground on yet another aspect of lifting.

 

[Fatty4You]

catabolism is inherently opposite of anabolism which is the ideal state of the bodybuilders body. As I stated before, catabolism is bad

Ok, if we are just talking about muscle protein breakdown, then i would agree that we have to limit it. However, it has been theorized that breaking down the muscle via exercise may be beneficial to the promotion of new protein.

But, i my knowledge of this kinda stuff is hardly sufficient to really talk...

-Fatty

 

[Griz]

catabolism is obviously occuring in your body when, for example, you are doing cardio very intesively and your body looks to muscle tissue for nutrients then you may begin to smell an ammonia like smell (like piss, or nitrogen). Look around you and first make sure that some cleaning guy isn't behind you with windex or something (as happened to me one day and I stopped until I noticed this guy cleaning and asked if there was ammonia in his bottle). You have to be paying attention though cause it can be a subtle smell. I notice that when I go way too hard on cardio intervals I sometimes get that wave of ammonia, I know then it's time to quit.

The apparant reason for this is that the byproduct of breaking down nutrient rich tissue such as MUSCLE tissue results in a fair amount of nitrogen getting into the blood system. In our sinus area we have very fine capilleries that pump the nitrogen rich blood and we begin to smell that smell. When you start to smell that quit excersising immediately and eat a power bar or drink a nutrient shake to stop it quickly.

If anyone disagrees with this I'd like to hear why other than "Oh that's just Bullshit!" I ran this past a biologist and he agreed that that was how it works.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

I'm not going to instantly doubt you nor your word, but I'd really like to read more on this. Would you perhaps, happen to have an article on this?

If not, I'm more than capable of digging one up... if any exist on this topic (which I'm sure they do).

If I find one, I'll post it for everyone here. Interesting...

 

[leancuisine]

bump

 

[argent]

Catabolism is nec. for the cylic nature of our body systems to function normally. However excessive catabolism is what the discussion is about.

Anybody involved in our sport needs to be wary of catabolism. Maybe you won't lose all of your hard earned muscle by doing 45 min. of cardio 4 days a week, but it for sure isn't helping the situation.

The more important thing we must look at is that while you are catabolic you are not creating new tissue. So if you are catabolic you aren't repairing the tissues that were trained in previous workouts, thus affecting future training sessions. I don't feel that 45 min. of low intensity cardio 2-3 times a week will make you wither away, but make sure your cardiovascular work is not impairing your recovery.