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high protein or high carb when on DNP?
- Thread starter kingsbury
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GodOfThunder
New member
Carbs are kind of like wood to a fire when on DNP. When I eat any refined carbs on DNP, about 30 mins after, I'm sweating like hell. This doesn't seem so true with complex carbs like oats. Whether or not this means I'm burning alot of fat because I'm sweating, I don't know. From what I usually hear from people, you lose fat on DNP no matter what. I eat clean while on, throwing in some fruit every so often becuse its an antioxidant and the rush of fructose makes me feel like its working I guess.
I don't ever have really bad sides cause I stay below 400mg.
I don't ever have really bad sides cause I stay below 400mg.
i just actually finished my dnp 400mg/day for 10 days. i dont know what the fuck i did wrong but i lost 10 lbs and my bodyfat didnt even drop. i lost all lbm. i did 3000 calories and about 200g/protein a day. i just pretty much sat around the house all day, didnt work out. sweated pretty good and was pretty miserable, and wonder why i didnt lose any fat.
your body will burn dietary fat before burning bodyfat, so keep dietary fat minimal. carbs are pretty much burned solely as heat. higher protein is the way to go with some fruits mixed in here and there. you get your aminoes, your body gets to burn body fat and you're not getting those hot flashes and sweating like a madman like you would after a large carb meal.
K
kronk
Guest
**Please note that I do not condone the use of DNP by any living human**** This excerpt is from the man himself, the guru of dnp.
This is what I’m proposing to be the optimal DNP diet (for a high dose short cycle(s) and the end of a low dose extended cycle only):
50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat. It’s not a misprint; carbs are essential for DNP to work properly. Keep in mind that it’s only the percentage that changes and not the total calories. From this point it will get a bit complicated, but read over it a few times and you will get the gist of it. I’ll also try to keep it as simple as possible.
50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat. It’s not a misprint; carbs are essential for DNP to work properly. Keep in mind that it’s only the percentage that changes and not the total calories. From this point it will get a bit complicated, but read over it a few times and you will get the gist of it. I’ll also try to keep it as simple as possible.
When fatty acids are broken down they need to be fed into an energy cycle for a complete break down so that more can be broken down later. The beginning of this cycle is called the citric acid cycle. Fats enter the citric acid cycle as a 2-carbon molecule called acetate and to start off this cycle it needs to bind to another 2-carbon molecule called oxaloacetate. Without enough oxaloacetate this cycle cannot proceed. With little oxaloacetate this cycle is slowed down, thus fat burning is slowed down. Where does oxaloacetate come from? Several sources, but the main one is from pyruvate, the end product of the first step of glucose (carbohydrate) metabolism. Without enough glucose in the blood, fat burning becomes very inefficient.
This is not to say the more carbs we eat the more pyruvate we can generate, therefore the more fat is burned. We only need adequate levels of pyruvate to supply the citric acid cycle of the necessary starting material for fat to enter, and then it will eventually proceed to be completely oxidized in the electron transport chain.
Don’t worry about eating too many carbs while on DNP because these carbs cannot be stored and are immediately used for fuel to try to replenish cellular ATP. While keeping the calorie level at maintenance level, it would be most beneficial to eat about 55% calories from carbs, 35% protein and 10% fat (mostly unsaturated). It may be optimal for fat burning to raise the carbs a bit more, but the protein should be high enough so that muscle catabolism is kept at a minimum when DNP creates the huge calorie deficit in the body.
The least effective form of dieting while on a DNP cycle is a fat diet, or ketogenic diet, but the high amounts of fat helps to slow gastric emptying, so you feel more satisfied for a longer period of time. This is one reason why I first recommended the isocaloric diet to beginners who may have trouble controlling their appetite while on DNP.
This is what I’m proposing to be the optimal DNP diet (for a high dose short cycle(s) and the end of a low dose extended cycle only):
50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat. It’s not a misprint; carbs are essential for DNP to work properly. Keep in mind that it’s only the percentage that changes and not the total calories. From this point it will get a bit complicated, but read over it a few times and you will get the gist of it. I’ll also try to keep it as simple as possible.
50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat. It’s not a misprint; carbs are essential for DNP to work properly. Keep in mind that it’s only the percentage that changes and not the total calories. From this point it will get a bit complicated, but read over it a few times and you will get the gist of it. I’ll also try to keep it as simple as possible.
When fatty acids are broken down they need to be fed into an energy cycle for a complete break down so that more can be broken down later. The beginning of this cycle is called the citric acid cycle. Fats enter the citric acid cycle as a 2-carbon molecule called acetate and to start off this cycle it needs to bind to another 2-carbon molecule called oxaloacetate. Without enough oxaloacetate this cycle cannot proceed. With little oxaloacetate this cycle is slowed down, thus fat burning is slowed down. Where does oxaloacetate come from? Several sources, but the main one is from pyruvate, the end product of the first step of glucose (carbohydrate) metabolism. Without enough glucose in the blood, fat burning becomes very inefficient.
This is not to say the more carbs we eat the more pyruvate we can generate, therefore the more fat is burned. We only need adequate levels of pyruvate to supply the citric acid cycle of the necessary starting material for fat to enter, and then it will eventually proceed to be completely oxidized in the electron transport chain.
Don’t worry about eating too many carbs while on DNP because these carbs cannot be stored and are immediately used for fuel to try to replenish cellular ATP. While keeping the calorie level at maintenance level, it would be most beneficial to eat about 55% calories from carbs, 35% protein and 10% fat (mostly unsaturated). It may be optimal for fat burning to raise the carbs a bit more, but the protein should be high enough so that muscle catabolism is kept at a minimum when DNP creates the huge calorie deficit in the body.
The least effective form of dieting while on a DNP cycle is a fat diet, or ketogenic diet, but the high amounts of fat helps to slow gastric emptying, so you feel more satisfied for a longer period of time. This is one reason why I first recommended the isocaloric diet to beginners who may have trouble controlling their appetite while on DNP.
Dr. M
New member
It's important to realize from kronk's re-post that very little carbohydrate is in fact needed to generate oxaloacetate. Oxaloacetate is used in very high amounts in the TCA cycle(tricarboxylic acid cycle, Krebs cycle, citric acid cycle - different names for the same thing), but it's also REGENERATED to a very high amount. Oxaloacetate is only needed in catalytic, not bulk, amounts for the TCA cycle to proceed at a high rate.
I agree that carbs are needed, however, when one looks at all of the peripheral metabolism (which we can't really get into here)... suffice it to say that NO carbs on DNP will lower its effectiveness.
DNP is the F1 racecar of fat burning - very touchy, but it really gives'er when it's used correctly.
-M
I agree that carbs are needed, however, when one looks at all of the peripheral metabolism (which we can't really get into here)... suffice it to say that NO carbs on DNP will lower its effectiveness.
DNP is the F1 racecar of fat burning - very touchy, but it really gives'er when it's used correctly.
-M
Good point Dr M on minimal need of Oxaloacetate......
I stay away from carbs just to avoid the heat from the H+ lost through the ETC....the body needs its ATP, with little carbs, the body must get it from somewhere.....fat. The less carbs you eat, the less energy you get form them, thus the more you need, so you burn more fat.
I stay away from carbs just to avoid the heat from the H+ lost through the ETC....the body needs its ATP, with little carbs, the body must get it from somewhere.....fat. The less carbs you eat, the less energy you get form them, thus the more you need, so you burn more fat.
C
Citruscide
Guest
50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fats.
It's what I'd do, bottom line, better fat burning potential... made a few posts about this...
C-ditty
It's what I'd do, bottom line, better fat burning potential... made a few posts about this...
C-ditty
K
kronk
Guest
Citruscide said:
Great minds post alike.
C
Citruscide
Guest
kronk said:
Great minds post alike.
Yup.
Living with "the man" for that long, you learn a lot. 
C-ditty
K
kronk
Guest
Citruscide said:
Yup.
C-ditty
Hey you leave your "man living" to yourself broly, I dont want to hear it!
C
Citruscide
Guest
kronk said:
Hey you leave your "man living" to yourself broly, I dont want to hear it!
I guess we can all tell where KRONK'S mind is at this time of the day.
C-ditty
K
kronk
Guest
Citruscide said:
I guess we can all tell where KRONK'S mind is at this time of the day.
C-ditty
Yep, and its not on "man living" ROFL. End of thread hijack, back to topic...
lol, I got the last word.
C
Citruscide
Guest
LOL -- nice Kronk... way to ruin a perfectly educational thread with GAYNESS.
C-ditty
C-ditty
I respect the late Guru, but much of what he said was just incorrect.
Carbs are NOT essential for fat burning while on DNP.. Carbs ARE essential for keeping liver, brain, etc happy while on the stuff.. Eat too many and you will feel it... and you won't like it.
The fact that you feel hotter after carbs does NOT mean you are burning more fat. Actually, when you eat the carbs, your cells will switch over from fat burning to burning the carbs you just consumed.
Pyruvate is not essential while on DNP.
Andy
Carbs are NOT essential for fat burning while on DNP.. Carbs ARE essential for keeping liver, brain, etc happy while on the stuff.. Eat too many and you will feel it... and you won't like it.
The fact that you feel hotter after carbs does NOT mean you are burning more fat. Actually, when you eat the carbs, your cells will switch over from fat burning to burning the carbs you just consumed.
Pyruvate is not essential while on DNP.
Andy
Thanx for the backing Andy!
With no carbs to burn, your body turns to fat becasue it MUST have energy. Feed yourself carbs........they will be broken down like normal, but once in the ETC, all the H+ emitted will give you the sauna effect commonly seen with DNP treatment.
The only essentials needed on DNP are water and your proper anti-Os. You will be fine with minimal carbs (actually better off becasue of the heat issue). There is no reason to go high on carbs.
With no carbs to burn, your body turns to fat becasue it MUST have energy. Feed yourself carbs........they will be broken down like normal, but once in the ETC, all the H+ emitted will give you the sauna effect commonly seen with DNP treatment.
The only essentials needed on DNP are water and your proper anti-Os. You will be fine with minimal carbs (actually better off becasue of the heat issue). There is no reason to go high on carbs.
thanks
thanks for the good advice, that was something I was worried about. I work in an office and I don't want to be drenched in sweat all day. Also, what are some good things to take in addition to anti oxidants for energy, thyroid, mental clarity, etc. Any info is appreciated.
thanks for the good advice, that was something I was worried about. I work in an office and I don't want to be drenched in sweat all day. Also, what are some good things to take in addition to anti oxidants for energy, thyroid, mental clarity, etc. Any info is appreciated.
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