HGH +5ius/day and thyroid

[Davs]

Anybody out there who has experience with GH dosages above 5ius/day, do you use thyroid with that dose?

I take 6ius/day and start to feel sluggish and believe perhaps I am getting thyroid lowering effects of GH. I am going to get bloodwork but was just wondering if anybody with experience can give me some help with this in the meantime.

 

[liquidmuscle]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1674787#post1674787

 

[DrJMW]

Anybody out there who has experience with GH dosages above 5ius/day, do you use thyroid with that dose?

I take 6ius/day and start to feel sluggish and believe perhaps IU am getting thyroid lowering effects fo GH. I am going to get bloodwork but jsut wondering if anybody with experience can give me some help with this in the meantime.

I always recommend cytomel with HGH dosing, for your complaint of sluggishness is so common. My baseline, as you know, is 4IU, six days on and one day off for men. My baseline dosing for cytomel is 50mcg daily before breakfast. Most men tolerate this low dose well. If necessary, it can be dropped to 25mcg daily, but I have had to do this only once in three years. As far as HGH doses over 4IU, you must be careful. Symptoms of joint pain and swelling are the first to appear with untolerable doses. Titration is important.

 

[Davs]

DrJMW,

My understanding is that adding T3 makes the GH more of a fat burner only whereas without the T3 the GH becomes anbolic both in muscle tissue and connective tissue slightly so in bone tissue. I have read that T3 binds up IGF-1s and that is what is responsible for this effect.

 

[DrJMW]

If you are using HGH with AAS, then drop the cytomel. The AAS will optimize the thyroid. HGH is a poor muscle builder compared to AAS. You are relying on your aging body to overproduce IGF-1, which won't happen. I have never recommended using HGH alone for muscle building. Even in an ideal world where long R3 IGF-1 is readily available, many athletes have had mixed experiences with it and most agree that AAS is superior for muscle building. Again, if using HGH alone, you will need the cytomel to overcome the HGH-induced suppression of the thyroid. This is a poor muscle-building cycle. I have advanced athletes using HGH/AAS for size/strength and doing well--diet must be on the nose, for remember, that HGH causes some insulin resistance.

 

[GenSci26]

Anybody out there who has experience with GH dosages above 5ius/day, do you use thyroid with that dose?

I take 6ius/day and start to feel sluggish and believe perhaps I am getting thyroid lowering effects of GH. I am going to get bloodwork but was just wondering if anybody with experience can give me some help with this in the meantime.

I use to feel absolutely lethargic on hgh when doing morning shot. I couldn't even work-out right. But as soon as I switched to bed time injection, everything changed instantly. I'm not saying you shouldn't supplement with T3, it certainely has its benefits, but it didn't help with feeling lethargic because of the morning shot.

 

[Davs]

DRJMW,

I know what you are talking about with diet having to be on the nose. You are refering to low carbohydrate intake.

But wouldn't this only be true if you were injecting in the morning? If you inject at night, then all of the GH has ben processed by late morning and I would guess that insuln resistance is not a problem in that case fr the rest of the day.

 

[ripper911]

I always recommend cytomel with HGH dosing, for your complaint of sluggishness is so common. My baseline, as you know, is 4IU, six days on and one day off for men. My baseline dosing for cytomel is 50mcg daily before breakfast. Most men tolerate this low dose well. If necessary, it can be dropped to 25mcg daily, but I have had to do this only once in three years. As far as HGH doses over 4IU, you must be careful. Symptoms of joint pain and swelling are the first to appear with untolerable doses. Titration is important.

Hey doc whats your opinion on someone whos in there 20's using low doses of HGH. I have been cycling for 3 years now and have been looking into HGH for several months now. However, my age is the only thing stoipping me from using. Im almost 24 and I do not want to supress my natural GH. What age do you suggest the starting point for using HGH at low doses?

 

[v shape]

So if a person plans on using HGH alone for 6 months they should use 50 mcgs of t3 everyday in conjunction with the HGH? Is that harmful for your thyroid?

I always recommend cytomel with HGH dosing, for your complaint of sluggishness is so common. My baseline, as you know, is 4IU, six days on and one day off for men. My baseline dosing for cytomel is 50mcg daily before breakfast. Most men tolerate this low dose well. If necessary, it can be dropped to 25mcg daily, but I have had to do this only once in three years. As far as HGH doses over 4IU, you must be careful. Symptoms of joint pain and swelling are the first to appear with untolerable doses. Titration is important.

 

[[email protected]]

So if a person plans on using HGH alone for 6 months they should use 50 mcgs of t3 everyday in conjunction with the HGH? Is that harmful for your thyroid?

I thought that is best to stop taking t3 after six weeks. Can't you become dependant if you take it for too long?

 

[Guvna]

bumping this, great info here.

 

[liquidmuscle]

I thought that is best to stop taking t3 after six weeks. Can't you become dependant if you take it for too long?

this is a very informative thread, but i also have read that around wks 6-8 if there is no eventual discontinuance that you would become dependent on cytomel

 

[DrJMW]

Davs: Not sure of your point. An athlete taking HGH at night is a waste. An adult's highest HGH blood levels are at night. You want to simulate youthful HGH levels. So, to do this, mid-morning injection works better, for your body will "inject" HGH while sleeping. In an ideal world, mid-morning injections and mid-afternoon injections would be the way to go. We have discussed this ad nauseum. Night-time injections, if treating genuine HGH deficiency (like with AIDS), would probably not induce much insulin resistance. These patients already have insulin resistance and eating disorders. The enhancing athlete will derive little benefit from night-time injections.

Ripper911--On average, adults begin to decrease their natural HGH levels immediately post-puberty. Your best gauge is blood testing to see where your IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels are. These tests are excellent indicators of the effectiveness of your HGH levels. If they are high, then you do not need HGH supplementation. If they are low, then HGH supps will help you. HGH supplementation always suppresses natural HGH output. So, there is no right age. Blood testing is the answer.

Vshape--using HGH with 50mcg daily t3 for six months is not harmful to the thyroid--this has been documented on this board by myself and others. This cycle along with proper training and a high protein, low carb, moderate clean fat diet will result in fat loss with decent muscle preservation. I have seen this over and over again with my clients.

 

[GenSci26]

I don't think it's a waste at all. Some studies on human suggests suppression of natural GH doesn't occur until up 4 hours post injection, so you would still benefit from your own GH production if taken right before bedtime.

By Nandi12:
The human response to exogenous GH is really variable, as can be seen in figures 1 and 2 in this study.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...ll/85/2/601#R31

To quote from the paper:

Although the mean serum 22K-GH levels after injection were not different even at higher doses compared to the placebo group during the first 4 h, the 22K-hGH levels were reduced even at lower doses from approximately 4–6 h up to 12 h. During the subsequent 24-h observation period, the 22K-hGH levels gradually returned to the placebo level.

So suppression does not even begin until 4 hours after injection, and can last for many hours after that, as the abovementioned figures show. The reason there is a lag of a few hours is because it takes several hours for IGF-1 (which suppresses GH) to rise after a GH injection. See fig 4.

The lower figures of 4 to 6 hours of suppression after an injection are from rat studies:

In previous studies (31, 32), single intramuscularly or sc administration of hGH (with monitoring of the resulting plasma profiles) showed a delayed and prolonged suppressive effect on rat GH secretion. The time course of endogenous GH suppression in rats was similar to but faster than that in humans reported here. The fast time course in rats was probably due to the rapid absorption of hGH in this species (14, 33).

Here is the full thread.
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4341&highlight=hgh