HCG use during PCT

[cbeaks]

What do you feel is the best way to take HCG after a cycle? I plan on taking 300mg of clomid on the first day after all anabolics are out of my system and then take 100mg/day for 10 days and 50mg/day for another 10 days. Would you start the HCG at the same time? I have heard many different theories about what is the best way to take HCG and wanted to hear what you all think is the best protocol

 

[sweed]

first threee weeks hcg mon/wed/fri 1000 iu;s each time.. continue clomid for additional 2 weeks

 

[Macronne]

It all depends on What cycle u did, and how long?

People take HCG in different ways, i usually take it in cycles longer than 7 weeks, and i take one every 5 days. 3000 in the last week of my course, then another 3000, 5 days later, then 1500 5 days after that. I then start taking clomid or nolva

 

[jeb0177]

7 weeks????? what kind of cycle do you do?

It all depends on What cycle u did, and how long?

People take HCG in different ways, i usually take it in cycles longer than 7 weeks, and i take one every 5 days. 3000 in the last week of my course, then another 3000, 5 days later, then 1500 5 days after that. I then start taking clomid or nolva

 

[Macronne]

7 weeks????? what kind of cycle do you do?

I did once a primo, winny and clen cycle for 6 weeks, i know u dont use HCG for that but i know people who do a 7 weeks cycle of test where they front load the first two weeks, and they dont do HCG after it.

Also people here in jordan dont know much about PCT, they just take whatever you tell them and that it. Many dont do PCT at all.

 

[nydj66]

Endogenous testosterone production is a chain reaction of the HPTA (hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis):

1.) The hypothalamus produces GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone)

2.) This stimulates the pituitary to produce LH (luteinizing hormone)

3.) Which stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

High levels of sex hormones (testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, prolactin) inhibits activity at the hypothalamus which reduces GnRH production which ultimately leads to lower endogenous testosterone production. This is known as the negative feedback loop.

After about 3 weeks on 250mg/week or more of AAS, the entire system is shut down completely. The purpose of PCT is to get the HPTA back to full function as quickly as possible so you don't lose your gains due to low serum testosterone levels.

A SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) like Clomid or Nolvadex can block estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and interupt the negative feedback loop. This hastens and increases the production of GnRH which is the first step in the chain reaction of testosterone production.

Studies show that the hypothalamus and pituitary can recover fairly quickly even after years of testosterone replacement therapy. However, the testes can be the bottleneck in the recovery process and the longer they are dormant, the longer they will take to recover.

This is where HCG comes in; it can act just like LH and stimulate the testes to produce testosterone. However, this increased testosterone inhibits the hypothalamus through the negative feedback loop so timing of HCG use is critical.

As a rule of thumb, after any cycle of 10 weeks or longer, HCG use is warranted to speed up recovery.

One option is to use it weekly throughout your cycle so that your testes are never dormant. However, care must be taken not to use it at too high a dosage or for too long as it can permanently reduce the testes sensitivity to LH and ultimately impair your ability to produce endogenous testosterone.

The othe (more common) option is to use HCG the last 3 weeks of a cycle before PCT begins. For instance, if your cycle included EQ or deca, you'd use 1,000IU HCG EOD for 3 weeks immediately following your last injection.

In another example, if enanthate was the longest ester in use during your cycle, you'd use the same 3-week HCG protocol but begin it one week before your last injection.

Using HCG in this way will acomplish 2 things:

1.) It will restore the testes to full function in preparation for PCT so your overall recovery will be quicker.

2.) It will keep your serum testosterone levels elevated while the AAS esters are working their way out of your system so you spend less time overall with lower serum test levels.

But, as I stated before, HCG is just as suppressive to the hypothalamus and pituitary as AAS are. So after the 3 week protocol of HCG, you still need to go through the standard 3 week PCT with a SERM like clomid or nolvadex.

 

[cbeaks]

Endogenous testosterone production is a chain reaction of the HPTA (hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis):

1.) The hypothalamus produces GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone)

2.) This stimulates the pituitary to produce LH (luteinizing hormone)

3.) Which stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

High levels of sex hormones (testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, prolactin) inhibits activity at the hypothalamus which reduces GnRH production which ultimately leads to lower endogenous testosterone production. This is known as the negative feedback loop.

After about 3 weeks on 250mg/week or more of AAS, the entire system is shut down completely. The purpose of PCT is to get the HPTA back to full function as quickly as possible so you don't lose your gains due to low serum testosterone levels.

A SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) like Clomid or Nolvadex can block estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus and interupt the negative feedback loop. This hastens and increases the production of GnRH which is the first step in the chain reaction of testosterone production.

Studies show that the hypothalamus and pituitary can recover fairly quickly even after years of testosterone replacement therapy. However, the testes can be the bottleneck in the recovery process and the longer they are dormant, the longer they will take to recover.

This is where HCG comes in; it can act just like LH and stimulate the testes to produce testosterone. However, this increased testosterone inhibits the hypothalamus through the negative feedback loop so timing of HCG use is critical.

As a rule of thumb, after any cycle of 10 weeks or longer, HCG use is warranted to speed up recovery.

One option is to use it weekly throughout your cycle so that your testes are never dormant. However, care must be taken not to use it at too high a dosage or for too long as it can permanently reduce the testes sensitivity to LH and ultimately impair your ability to produce endogenous testosterone.

The othe (more common) option is to use HCG the last 3 weeks of a cycle before PCT begins. For instance, if your cycle included EQ or deca, you'd use 1,000IU HCG EOD for 3 weeks immediately following your last injection.

In another example, if enanthate was the longest ester in use during your cycle, you'd use the same 3-week HCG protocol but begin it one week before your last injection.

Using HCG in this way will acomplish 2 things:

1.) It will restore the testes to full function in preparation for PCT so your overall recovery will be quicker.

2.) It will keep your serum testosterone levels elevated while the AAS esters are working their way out of your system so you spend less time overall with lower serum test levels.

But, as I stated before, HCG is just as suppressive to the hypothalamus and pituitary as AAS are. So after the 3 week protocol of HCG, you still need to go through the standard 3 week PCT with a SERM like clomid or nolvadex.

so you honestly think that hcg is a total waste in getting the natural test production kick started?

 

[Bruce]

i like to use 250iu's a week throughout, then the nuts never shrink at all

 

[ElMatador]

1500IU each 4th day....3 weeks...

 

[nydj66]

so you honestly think that hcg is a total waste in getting the natural test production kick started?

Wow, I'm not sure how you inferred that from my post but the whole point was that HCG will bring back natural testosterone production more quickly (after a long cycle).

However, you do need to get the timing right for optimum results.

 

[bigdho]

i like to use 250iu's a week throughout, then the nuts never shrink at all

Agreed. I also use this protocall. I like to refer to Dr Swales advise when it comes to HCG. I do 250iu Mon Wed Fri but Ive been on test eq and tren for 5 months.

 

[cbeaks]

Wow, I'm not sure how you inferred that from my post but the whole point was that HCG will bring back natural testosterone production more quickly (after a long cycle).

However, you do need to get the timing right for optimum results.

I guess, I just meant after reading your post, it seems like it is not a good idea to use after all of the anabolics are out of your system (which is what I consider PCT) because it will continue to suppress the hpta. I have been injecting 500iu Monday, Wednesday and Friday during my cycle but it seems like it might be a bad idea to continue using it now that all of the AAS are out of my system.

 

[Ulter]

Use 1000iu/day for the last week of your cycle. Then start the clomid when your AS clears.

 

[krishna]

I like to do it after my cycle. This way I get an extra little boost during my PCT and a smoother transition. Just make sure you run the nolva 2 weeks after the HCG and you're fine. I usually have some enth in my system so I do it a week after my last shot. I'll probably do a little midcycle this time too cause my nuts are gonners.

 

[nydj66]

I guess, I just meant after reading your post, it seems like it is not a good idea to use after all of the anabolics are out of your system (which is what I consider PCT) because it will continue to suppress the hpta. I have been injecting 500iu Monday, Wednesday and Friday during my cycle but it seems like it might be a bad idea to continue using it now that all of the AAS are out of my system.

If you have been using HCG throughout your cycle, then I like Mr X's idea of upping the dosage for the last week before you would normally start PCT.

But you are correct; once the testes are at full function, there's no point in continuing HCG because it will suppress the hypothalamus and pituitary.

 

[lefler]

I did once a primo, winny and clen cycle for 6 weeks, i know u dont use HCG for that but i know people who do a 7 weeks cycle of test where they front load the first two weeks, and they dont do HCG after it.

Also people here in jordan dont know much about PCT, they just take whatever you tell them and that it. Many dont do PCT at all.

your idea of a cycle is fairly bad and your idea of pct isnt to far behind.... bro, 6 weeks of primo is a waste of gear, money, and time.

Am i the only one who noticed this?

 

[Ulter]

your idea of a cycle is fairly bad and your idea of pct isnt to far behind.... bro, 6 weeks of primo is a waste of gear, money, and time.

Am i the only one who noticed this?

No, you're just the only one who would say it.

 

[needtogetaas]

this thread sucks.

 

[needsize]

using hcg after your cycle during pct will actually keep you shut down, use it "only" when youre on cycle, either 2x weekly during, for a week at the end, or both(which is what I do), but never run it during the actual pct

 

[lefler]

i just finished a prop, var, winny, proviron 9 week cycle. (im in week 12 right now) weeks 8-10 was 1000iu 3 times a week with 20mg nolva. weeks 11-13 is just nolva 60/40/20. the last week im gonna taper from 20 to 10mg to try and limit the rebound effect i have read about...

hey ulter or needsize, could you maybe explain the rebound effect from pct im talking about. if ya know what im talking about. lol oh, and maybe what your thoughts are on just nolva for pct.

 

[krishna]

using hcg after your cycle during pct will actually keep you shut down, use it "only" when youre on cycle, either 2x weekly during, for a week at the end, or both(which is what I do), but never run it during the actual pct

I agree with what you're saying, but I take some afterward because I have long acting enthanate esters which will keep me shut down anyway. I like to try and balance my transition as the test becomes less and less form the enth, I am leveling it out by bringing my own production back with the HCG. Meanwhile I'm taking nolva the entire time to start up my negative feedback loop again, and I continue the nolva 2-3 weeks after the HCG. Works well for me.