HCG and long cycle

[Nighthawkk]

I'm in the middle of a 24-week cycle and now may wish to use HCG during the cycle, as well as right before the end. Got a few questions:

1) I have the 4500iu pack- three amps of 1500iu powder and three 1ml solvent amps...and also 30ml bacteriostatic water. How can I mix so that I can easily measure out between 250 and 500iu's at a time? (and yes, I do have 1/2ml insulin syringes, as well as regular 3ml ones)

2) I was going to run 250iu daily mid-cycle for one week, then 500iu daily for about 7 days right after last enanth jab....will this be sufficient? (my atrophy isn't actually that bad, considering I'm in week 16)

3) Is sub-q just as effective as IM?

Thanks

 

[will b huge]

Somebody knows his shit and has done his homework, the only thing I see is that I thought you would use a lot more HCG...more like 1000iu even.........but then again, you said your shrinkage isn't that bad anyways....

 

[Nighthawkk]

Somebody knows his shit and has done his homework, the only thing I see is that I thought you would use a lot more HCG...more like 1000iu even.........but then again, you said your shrinkage isn't that bad anyways....

Well bro, some people say to use 1000-1500iu every few days, and some say a daily dose of 500iu daily for 7-10 days is better. I'm sure either dosing will work, but considering I'm treating some gyno symptoms with Nolv right now, I definitely don't want to aggrevate it- hence the 250 and 500iu doses. And no, there isn't much shrinkage from when I began the cycle, but my nutsack seems to have pulled in a bit, which almost always happens on cycle. I just think for being on this long HCG is a necessity regardless, and have been convinced by the guys on this board that you need to use it to have a good recovery. Just because I recovered very quickly in the past doesn't mean I will this time, and considering this cycle is almost twice as long as my usual ones, its better to err on the safe side

 

[Maetenloch]

This cycle I'm doing 300iu EOD for the entire cycle. This is based on SWALE's protocol and a new study I came across that showed this to maintain various intra-testicular markers near baseline levels. HCG is fairly cheap so why not. I'll try and find a link to the study.

 

[fugetaboutit]

bump for the question: IM injections or sub-q?

 

[UFC22]

sub-q

 

[Nighthawkk]

This cycle I'm doing 300iu EOD for the entire cycle. This is based on SWALE's protocol and a new study I came across that showed this to maintain various intra-testicular markers near baseline levels. HCG is fairly cheap so why not. I'll try and find a link to the study.

Yea that link would be cool to read if you can find it, thanks

 

[Maetenloch]

Here's the link I originally came across on cuttingedgemuscle.com -
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595
_________________________________________________________

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

Andrea D. Coviello, Alvin M. Matsumoto, William J. Bremner, Karen L. Herbst, John K. Amory, Bradley D. Anawalt, Paul R. Sutton, William W. Wright, Terry R. Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R. Zirkin and Jonathan P. Jarow
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (A.M.M.), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (A.D.C., W.J.B., J.K.A., B.D.A., P.R.S.), Seattle, Washington 98195; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (K.L.H.), Los Angeles, California 90059; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (X.Y., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21287; and Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (W.W.W., T.R.B., X.Y., B.R.Z., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21205

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Andrea D. Coviello, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University, Tarry 15-751, 303 East Chicago Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60611-3008. E-mail: a-coviello{at}northwestern.edu.

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

 

[crfpilot14]

i would mix it like this...

add 1cc bacwater to the powder vial and swirl it so it dissolves. add 4cc bacwater to a sterile sealed 15cc vial then add the mixture to this. this will yield 300IU/cc. repeat this for the other 2 vials and add to the same 15cc vial with the other. this will get you enough for 15 injections. 300cc eod throughout the cycle will be sufficient depending on your AAS doseages. you can use a 27-29G needle for SQ injections.

 

[Nighthawkk]

i would mix it like this...

add 1cc bacwater to the powder vial and swirl it so it dissolves. add 4cc bacwater to a sterile sealed 15cc vial then add the mixture to this. this will yield 300IU/cc. repeat this for the other 2 vials and add to the same 15cc vial with the other. this will get you enough for 15 injections. 300cc eod throughout the cycle will be sufficient depending on your AAS doseages. you can use a 27-29G needle for SQ injections.

This sounds good to me, I just need to get some spare vials (though I do have some 5cc syringes I could use to store too)

 

[Nighthawkk]

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