Hair Loss, Parts I, II, and more

[thankgodformexico]

Hey Buffdoc,

Good post man, little long haha but informative for the general guy who knows nothing about hairloss.

I just wanna set straight a couple of things here because I have been following hairloss treatments and learning about the underlying causes for a few years now.

A good place to go is the newsgroup alt.baldspot, you can find a lot of information there just by doing a search of past posts, although recently the group has gone to shit with all kinds of trolling.

Fact- Saw palmetto does next to nothing for hairloss and in some cases can accelerate it.

Fact- tacrolimus was the rage a couple years ago... people tried it, and it did nothing for hairloss, plus it is very expensive

You talk about finasteride/proscar/propecia.

There is a new drug that was just released last month called Dutasteride under the brand name Avodart. This drug is basically a better finasteride. It blocks 90% of dht opposed to around 70% by finasteride, because it blocks BOTH types of dht (1 and 2). Finasteride only blocks type 2.

You can get a rx for this drug and read more about it at:

http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00173071200&trx=1

They will call it into any pharmacy you chose for about $80 and the great part is that they don't call it in as "off label" use, so most insurance providers will cover it leaving you with a small co-pay.

These are THE ONLY PROVEN MEDICATIONS/TREATMENTS FOR HAIRLOSS...PERIOD (do NOT waste time or especially money on ANYTHING else):

#1- finasteride

#2-dutasteride

#3- minoxidil (use 5%, anything else is likely overkill)

#4- nizoral shampoo (highly overrated especially by bodybuilders, this is not a good hairloss medication by itself but may help with some inflamation due to male pattern baldness. This is a good add on to the above medications because it is cheap. Use the 2% you can order it online.

#5- spironolactone (like nizoral highly overrated but a good add on. THis shit has been around for decades and if it really stopped hairloss we wouldn't be dealing with the bullshit today. This is again cheap as hell to make yourself but not too expensive to order premade either at www.minoxidil.com. This should not be used as the backbone of your treatment, but is a good add on to the above finasteride or dutasteride because it will help mop up any left over DHT or other androgens on the scalp.

#6- S.O.D.'s (super-oxide dismutase found in products like folligen or tricomin, also found in the overpriced shit Dr. Proctor sells...called proxifen, which is just basically spiro mixed with minoxidil and SOD's. If you can afford tricomin or folligen then buy it as a bonus, but this shit isn't great by any means. If you have cash to blow go ahead and maybe grow a couple more hairs.

Ok, SO now everyone knows what to use, so use this information and save your hair fror the love of god and do not fall victim to hype about the newest herbal shampoo or wack ass snake oil treatment...because the next thing to come thyats legit in hairloss will most likely be a cure (within 5 years), transplants aside...don't fuck your heads up with transplants they look like shit anyway just wait till you can regrow your hair!!!

PEACE

 

[thankgodformexico]

Correction to above link for dutasteride, sorry wrong link.

Here's the right one:

http://xenicalwtloss.hypermart.net/AVODARTHairLossPrescriptionINDEXpage.html

 

[buffdoc]

Hey Buffdoc,

Good post man, little long haha but informative for the general guy who knows nothing about hairloss.

I just wanna set straight a couple of things here because I have been following hairloss treatments and learning about the underlying causes for a few years now.

A good place to go is the newsgroup alt.baldspot, you can find a lot of information there just by doing a search of past posts, although recently the group has gone to shit with all kinds of trolling.

Fact- Saw palmetto does next to nothing for hairloss and in some cases can accelerate it.

Fact- tacrolimus was the rage a couple years ago... people tried it, and it did nothing for hairloss, plus it is very expensive

You talk about finasteride/proscar/propecia.

There is a new drug that was just released last month called Dutasteride under the brand name Avodart. This drug is basically a better finasteride. It blocks 90% of dht opposed to around 70% by finasteride, because it blocks BOTH types of dht (1 and 2). Finasteride only blocks type 2.

You can get a rx for this drug and read more about it at:

http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00173071200&trx=1

They will call it into any pharmacy you chose for about $80 and the great part is that they don't call it in as "off label" use, so most insurance providers will cover it leaving you with a small co-pay.

These are THE ONLY PROVEN MEDICATIONS/TREATMENTS FOR HAIRLOSS...PERIOD (do NOT waste time or especially money on ANYTHING else):

#1- finasteride

#2-dutasteride

#3- minoxidil (use 5%, anything else is likely overkill)

#4- nizoral shampoo (highly overrated especially by bodybuilders, this is not a good hairloss medication by itself but may help with some inflamation due to male pattern baldness. This is a good add on to the above medications because it is cheap. Use the 2% you can order it online.

#5- spironolactone (like nizoral highly overrated but a good add on. THis shit has been around for decades and if it really stopped hairloss we wouldn't be dealing with the bullshit today. This is again cheap as hell to make yourself but not too expensive to order premade either at www.minoxidil.com. This should not be used as the backbone of your treatment, but is a good add on to the above finasteride or dutasteride because it will help mop up any left over DHT or other androgens on the scalp.

#6- S.O.D.'s (super-oxide dismutase found in products like folligen or tricomin, also found in the overpriced shit Dr. Proctor sells...called proxifen, which is just basically spiro mixed with minoxidil and SOD's. If you can afford tricomin or folligen then buy it as a bonus, but this shit isn't great by any means. If you have cash to blow go ahead and maybe grow a couple more hairs.

Ok, SO now everyone knows what to use, so use this information and save your hair fror the love of god and do not fall victim to hype about the newest herbal shampoo or wack ass snake oil treatment...because the next thing to come thyats legit in hairloss will most likely be a cure (within 5 years), transplants aside...don't fuck your heads up with transplants they look like shit anyway just wait till you can regrow your hair!!!

PEACE

Actually, Dr White, one of the most well known dermatological researchers on hair loss said at our meeting in Chicago, that any topical anti-androgen was essentially worthless, because so much DHT was continually delivered via the systemic circulation, so antagonizing it locally was for the birds. Who knows? But you're saying this is "proven?" (spiro)
Also, please be careful about posting information as "Fact". Did you read my thread on scientific evidence? If not, I suggest you do. There are shitloads of hair loss websites out there (I've lurked on some) and a lot of questionable info gets posted, often backed up by specious claims and "reliable" studies. Take it w/ a grain of salt.
Also, on dutasteride. Is it really a "better" finasteride just because it's newer and more "powerful", and hits both 5-AR types? Does decreasing levels of 5-AR an extra 20% actually translate clinically into increased hair growth? The data isn't there. And dutasteride has been released for BPH, not for hair loss. The only clinically "proven" hair loss meds at this point are finasteride and minoxidil. End of story. Not to say the others are w/out merit. I use Nizoral 3 times a week myself.
Also, dutasteride has an extremely long half life (like months!). So if you're one of the unlucky ones with side effects... You see my point. Of course Glaxo is drooling over the potential "off-label" profits, and wants to minimze any potential for side effects. I don't NECESSARILY buy that.
Finally, about hair transplants, there are some incredible and ethical surgeons out there doing undetectable and aestheticlly beautiful work. These are the transplants you don't see and never know about! It's really irresponsible to say what you did about transplants; also, we don't "know" if a cure, or hair cloning, or any of this is on the immedicate horizon.
So watch it w/ the "Facts".

 

[buffdoc]

hey doc,

you just made my week with this post. Knowing that they're doing hair cloning and that'll be a matter just made my life so much happier question for you, i didn't have time to throughly read the whole thing, saved it for later, but how good do the latest treatments look? can you give me a price range? i know it'll vary but a ball park figure is all i'm looking for. I've got a full head of hair and it don't look like it's going anywhere soon, but it's great to know that i won't have to worry about it. thanks

You mean like transplants and so forth? Usually $3-$7 per graft, anywhere from 400 to 4000 grafts depending on degree of loss. If you've got a good head of hair you're ahead of the game. Don't sweat it.

 

[notatrase]

Buffdoc, have you gathered any info on tacrolimus, or protopic ointment?
Also, has anyone else thought about the fact that is a cure for balding is invented, WE, who are balding now, will be the last bald people on earth. SHIT, THAT SUCKS!

 

[thankgodformexico]

Buffdoc,

I realise I used the word fact a little irresponsibly. What I meant to say was that saw palmetto does not effictively hault hairloss in the majority of people who take it.

Dr. Lee who runs minoxidil.com prescribed tacrolimus to some of his local patients a couple years ago when all the hype was surrounding it, to see if it grew hair before prescribing it on his website. He observed very dissapointing results from it and decided not to prescribe it. This was the same case for some of the baldspot regulars who got there hands on it. It looks really good on paper but doesn't grow hair.

I said that spiro was by no means a good treatment by itself but may help with the 5ar inhibitors. And it actually has been used ti treat hairloss for decades and there are studies showing that it is an effective topical anti-androgen....just doesn't work great for hairloss.

Yes, dutasteride DOES regrow more hair than finasteride, this is a fact and the results of the glaxo studies from the dutasteride hair loss trials show this...I don't have the graphs handy but you can find them on their website I'm sure. Most likely Glaxo decided that they wouldn't make a large enough profit from releasig the drug for hairloss due to mercks dissapointing sales with propecia.

 

[thankgodformexico]

Here are the dutasteride phase 2 results:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/html/dutasteridephase2.cfm

 

[kbrkbr]

What do you guys think about adding crushed spiro tabs to minoxidil, thereby killing two birds with one stone? I've tried it, and because the combo is so unstable, it stinks to high heaven unless to you keep it refridgerated. Still, the smell tends to disapear a little while after application. What I'm wondering is whether mixing the two renders both or either of them inactive. Thanks muchly.

 

[buffdoc]

Yes, dutasteride DOES regrow more hair than finasteride, this is a fact and the results of the glaxo studies from the dutasteride hair loss trials show this...I don't have the graphs handy but you can find them on their website I'm sure. Most likely Glaxo decided that they wouldn't make a large enough profit from releasig the drug for hairloss due to mercks dissapointing sales with propecia. [/B][/QUOTE]


No, this makes no sense at all. I understand your enthusiasm, believe me. But Glaxo would have made a fortune marketing dutasteride for hairloss, more than they will for BPH, if they could prove long term, significantly better results than finasteride. The meat of the studies is at 2 years and beyond. There is now 5 year data on finasteride.
My understanding is that the Phase 3 clinical trials on hairloss w/ dutasteride were terminated because of... side effects. Remember the extremely long half-life of dutasteride?

 

[buffdoc]

Here are the dutasteride phase 2 results:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/html/dutasteridephase2.cfm

This is a Phase 2 trial, also what is the "n", or sample size, is it enough for significance?
Bro, look at your study length: it's 24 weeks, you really can't say "that's a fact" about dutasteride's superiority to finasteride. I'm sorry, and again, I relate to your enthusiasm, but you just cant make that leap.