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GW being tried for Murder??

I'm not sure if we can truely say he is a murderer. If he wants to go to war , doesn't have have the authority to kill people??? I mean he is the commander of the military

The Clinton impeachment was a total sham and circus and it shameful that it even happened , but holding GW up for murder because of a Clinton impeachment seems like revenge and retribution more then anything
 
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gjohnson5 said:
I'm not sure if we can truely say he is a murderer. If he wants to go to war , doesn't have have the authority to kill people??? I mean he is the commander of the military

The Clinton impeachment was a total sham and circus and it shameful that it even happened , but holding GW up for murder because of a Clinton impeachment seems like revenge and retribution more then anything
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I think that average people are looking for checks and balances in the system to ensure that one person can't go of half cocked and just attack people without any immediate provocation. Or that there are implications for when things do go off the rails.

However, in any government, it seems to rarely works out like that.
 
EnderJE said:
I think that average people are looking for checks and balances in the system to ensure that one person can't go of half cocked and just attack people without any immediate provocation. Or that there are implications for when things do go off the rails.

However, in any government, it seems to rarely works out like that.
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don't you think congress does a pretty good job at checking a prez's war aims?
pretty sure a prez is impotent in military matters without congressional backing
 
I think GW should be impeached, but going to war when ratified by Congress is not murder. I think they are barking up the wrong tree. I think he should be impeached for lying to the American people and to Congress.
 
heatherrae said:
I think GW should be impeached, but going to war when ratified by Congress is not murder. I think they are barking up the wrong tree. I think he should be impeached for lying to the American people and to Congress.
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But if he knowingly used falsified evidence to get Congress to vote in the war?
 
EnderJE said:
But if he knowingly used falsified evidence to get Congress to vote in the war?
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Then he should be impeached for lying to Congress and submitting false evidence. We don't want to set a precedence of trying presidents for murder for going to war just because the war ends up being unpopular. That would be a really BAD decision.
 
heatherrae said:
Then he should be impeached for lying to Congress and submitting false evidence. We don't want to set a precedence of trying presidents for murder for going to war just because the war ends up being unpopular. That would be a really BAD decision.
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In your scenario, it seems like he isn't truly held accountable for his actions.

The justification would not be that the war is unpopular. The justification was that he knowingly submitted falsified evidence. BTW, I have no idea if he actually did. It would be for the courts to decide.
 
EnderJE said:
In your scenario, it seems like he isn't truly held accountable for his actions.

The justification would not be that the war is unpopular. The justification was that he knowingly submitted falsified evidence. BTW, I have no idea if he actually did. It would be for the courts to decide.
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Being impeached is serious enough, IMO.
 
Won't happen seeing as Tony Blair (arguably) did the same thing and got off Scot free (lying to parliament / the public with regards to false evidence / WMDs in Iraq).
 
gjohnson5 said:
Last I checked Tony Blair was the prime minister of a country other then the one being discussed....
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Yeah, but he's saying that he should be impeached too.
 
I think Tony Blair was snowed by GW and felt pressured to join up. I don't think Tony Blair is even 1/10 as culpable as GW
 
gjohnson5 said:
Last I checked Tony Blair was the prime minister of a country other then the one being discussed....
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Very perceptive of you.

What I was stating is that it'll be the same outcome for GWB; heads of state in the Western world aren't accountable whether it's taking bribes for peerships, kick backs from conglomerates, or taking nations to war under debatable false pretenses.

EnderJE said:
Yeah, but he's saying that he should be impeached too.
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Bingo.
 
heatherrae said:
I think Tony Blair was snowed by GW and felt pressured to join up. I don't think Tony Blair is even 1/10 as culpable as GW
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So if I commit an atrocity as a private soldier because my platoon leader, section commander & fellow privates pressured me in to doing so then I'm only a fraction as culpable as them?

Great, I'd be thrilled to have you as my lawyer seeing as you genuinely believe it and thus would give it 100% :)
 
OMG!!!!! The libs bitch about how we could use the Iraq money for other things but yet ar Ok with Congress wasting time on a bullshit accusation of murder. Dont we need to fix healthcare, hunger, the economy...?
 
Stoßtruppe said:
So if I commit an atrocity as a private soldier because my platoon leader, section commander & fellow privates pressured me in to doing so then I'm only a fraction as culpable as them?

Great, I'd be thrilled to have you as my lawyer seeing as you genuinely believe it and thus would give it 100% :)
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I'm saying that I think that Tony Blair was fed false intelligence and had a difficult political choice to make. England and the US have backed each other up for ages. He was put in a decision where he couldn't win.

Plus, I'm getting pretty fucking sick of every idiot who disagrees with me about something insulting my ability as a lawyer. I've been a lawyer for nearly 9 years now and am doing quite well. So, fuck off.
 
impeaching bush would set a terrible precedent for politics.
and lol olool at all those that are so eager to impeach bush, i bet $100 they didn't want to impeach clinton.
purely political driven
 
Bino said:
impeaching bush would set a terrible precedent for politics.
and lol olool at all those that are so eager to impeach bush, i bet $100 they didn't want to impeach clinton.
purely political driven
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clinton lied about getting a blow job, which was no one's business but his and his wife's.

bush lied about WMD and led us into a war that cost billions, put our economy in the shitter and has killed thousands of American and Iraqi citizens.

BIG DIFFERENCE
 
Pat_McCrotch said:
OMG!!!!! The libs bitch about how we could use the Iraq money for other things but yet ar Ok with Congress wasting time on a bullshit accusation of murder. Dont we need to fix healthcare, hunger, the economy...?
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it takes millions of dollars in advertising/campaigning to teach the american public about anything (any public in the world really. hell just the "wear your seatbelt" campaigns you see cost ridiculous amounts of money

taking your president to court for ANYTHING, whether murder, genocide, war crimes etc would actually be a really effective way to increase the publics awareness about their country. a bargain in terms of political eduaction, really.

besides, whatever the cost of taking your president to court, it pales in comparison to the alternative - which is to allow them to keep spending hundreds of billions overseas on needless wars
 
heatherrae said:
clinton lied about getting a blow job, which was no one's business but his and his wife's.

bush lied about WMD and led us into a war that cost billions, put our economy in the shitter and has killed thousands of American and Iraqi citizens.

BIG DIFFERENCE
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as a lawyer i would expect you of all people to understand the importance of truthfullness in a court of law
perjury is a big deal, how can you not see that?
 
Bino said:
as a lawyer i would expect you of all people to understand the importance of truthfullness in a court of law
perjury is a big deal, how can you not see that?
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The fuck up was the Supreme Court allowing a sitting Pres to be subject to a civil suit.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
it takes millions of dollars in advertising/campaigning to teach the american public about anything (any public in the world really. hell just the "wear your seatbelt" campaigns you see cost ridiculous amounts of money

taking your president to court for ANYTHING, whether murder, genocide, war crimes etc would actually be a really effective way to increase the publics awareness about their country. a bargain in terms of political eduaction, really.

besides, whatever the cost of taking your president to court, it pales in comparison to the alternative - which is to allow them to keep spending hundreds of billions overseas on needless wars
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a lot of us don't view it as needless though
someone has to step up to the plate, thankfully australia has along with us
 
heatherrae said:
Then he should be impeached for lying to Congress and submitting false evidence. We don't want to set a precedence of trying presidents for murder for going to war just because the war ends up being unpopular. That would be a really BAD decision.
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If he in fact lied purposefully to lead us into a war and people died as a result, would that not be some form of murder? He didn't pull the trigger, but his alleged false information resulted in the death of thousands..... It would be like falsely convicting someone of murder (knowing they were innocent) and then seeing them hang... You basically murdered them.
 
Looks like we gotta round up the whole gang from the LBJ administration and try them for murder also.
 
superdave said:
Looks like we gotta round up the whole gang from the LBJ administration and try them for murder also.
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FDR as well, he killed a bunch of innocent germans
germany never attacked us!!!!@#@!#!@#
 
Bino said:
as a lawyer i would expect you of all people to understand the importance of truthfullness in a court of law
perjury is a big deal, how can you not see that?
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As a human being, I would of thought you would of seen that a blow job vs 4000+ deaths as not being compari...actually forget it.

:D
 
EnderJE said:
As a human being, I would of thought you would of seen that a blow job vs 4000+ deaths as not being compari...actually forget it.

:D
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obviously the deaths are a more serious matter
but it is war, and death is a part of war.
lying in front of a court, though it may seem petty, is a serious offense and undermines the justice system imo
 
Bino said:
obviously the deaths are a more serious matter
but it is war, and death is a part of war.
lying in front of a court, though it may seem petty, is a serious offense and undermines the justice system imo
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I agree that it's serious (perjury), but I'm not sure if it's as serious as using false evidence to start a war. On the same token, I'm also not saying that GW used false evidence. Maybe he was duped too.

While typing that post, I figured that we'd probably spiral like we did before and you'd think that I hate you again. So, I just stopped my post and smiled. :D
 
EnderJE said:
I agree that it's serious (perjury), but I'm not sure if it's as serious as using false evidence to start a war. On the same token, I'm also not saying that GW used false evidence. Maybe he was duped too.

While typing that post, I figured that we'd probably spiral like we did before and you'd think that I hate you again. So, I just stopped my post and smiled. :D
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i think the world is better of w.o saddam
 
People are only as good as the information they believe to be true. How many times have you relied on info you believed to be true only to have it not work out for some reason, no matter how small or inconsequential? It happens all the time.
 
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