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GULP - shut down, need help, pct/cycle posted

D

dr_skier

Active member
Ok guys, my last shot of test was on April 1st. Day after I started my PCT. My cycle consisted of tren,eq,winny,test at various times over 20 weeks. I know i should have ran hcg before in the middle of the cycle but i didn't. The tren/eq was stopped 2 weeks before the test This is the PCT I ran and am still on.

starting day i took my last shot of test
week 1 hcg 2500iu tue/th. 100mg clomid/ed, 40mg nolva ed, 1mg arimidex ed
week 2&3 hcg 1500iu m/w/f, 100clomid/ ed, 40 nolva ed, 1mg armidex ed
week 4-100clomid/ ed, 40 nolva ed, 1mg armidex ed
week 5-7 50mg clomid ed/ 20mg nolva ed, .5mg arimdex eod

supplements inculde:
igf-1 50mcg/day week 6-9
clen 2weeks on 2 weeks off, only 80mcg/day
N02 generic supplement with CEE pre and pwo
high protein intake
vitamin C 1500mg/day
while on hcg - vitamin E 1000iu/day

Here's my problem, i'm just about done an 8 week pct and only in the last week or two has my sex drive been lacking. But i'm not sure if it's a libido problem or more a phyiscal problem. My hard-on's just aren't as hard and once or twice in the last week i've gone to half-mast half way through having sex, and yes, my girlfriend is hot.

SIGH - i thought i had this pct thing nailed.

SUGGESTIONS??? More importantly though, any mod's or vets chime in on the problem too...
 
What kind of test did you run? If prop, then starting PCT a few days later is good...if enth, you should've waited 1-2 weeks.... also keep in mind that you ran a helluva long cycle... it takes several months to recover fully, longer when you run something like deca & tren.... your PCT looks good, but you may have started a bit too soon...

Give it some more time... you may also want to try some proviron... alot of guys seem to like it for cases like yours... Protein Factory also make 2 products (Unleashed and Post-Cycle) that are good to give you that added "boost"

Good luck!
 
ya, though i hear proviron might be slightly supressive, anyone from canada (or us) have any good links on tongkat ali, i've been reading about that today.... I'm gonna pick up some trib this aft too, take 10 grams see if that jumpstarts me.
 
NOLVA is the likely cause of your lowered sex drive. expect it for at least 3-4 weeks after cessation due to extremely long half life

get blood work to see what your test levels are- there is often little correlation between sex drive and test levels.
 
thats the first i've heard of this, i mean, i understand that letro and harsh anti-e's can cause lowered sex drive due to not enough estro in the body. But wouldn't Me in PCT have an abundent rebound amount of estrogen kicking around? Also i have 10 days left of my nolva 20mg/day and clomid 50mg/day, should i just drop the nolva?
 
nolva is an ER agonist/antagonist so estrogen you have floating around is kind of irrelevant. generally its activity (or lack thereof) at the receptor does not maintain sex drive, clomid does the opposite. However, nolva generally has a greater binding affinity in many tissues.

note- due to conflicting activity there seems to be little evidence that stacking clomid and nolva is effective. There may be tissue specific affinity which abrogates this.. but that is unconfirmed. Basically there is no evidence of any benefit of stacking these two.
 
macrophage69alpha said:
nolva is an ER agonist/antagonist so estrogen you have floating around is kind of irrelevant. generally its activity (or lack thereof) at the receptor does not maintain sex drive, clomid does the opposite. However, nolva generally has a greater binding affinity in many tissues.

note- due to conflicting activity there seems to be little evidence that stacking clomid and nolva is effective. There may be tissue specific affinity which abrogates this.. but that is unconfirmed. Basically there is no evidence of any benefit of stacking these two.
Click to expand...
bottom line tell him what he should buy asap........
 
i had thought about that with the AI, it is only a small amount however.... bump to maco for the novla question though:)

I should also say that i'm not "horribly" shut down, i came off a heavy tren/test/winny cycle last spring with only 20 days of clomid and that my friends isn't enough to bring you back. I was shut down hardcore. Right now I still get excited, just floppy erections and less sex drive.
 
J Clin Oncol. 1999 May;17(5):1488-92. Related Articles, Links


Comment in:
J Clin Oncol. 1999 Nov;17(11):3689-90.

Effect of tamoxifen on sexual functioning in patients with breast cancer.

Mortimer JE, Boucher L, Baty J, Knapp DL, Ryan E, Rowland JH.

Department of Medicine, Washington University, St. Louis, MO 63110, USA. [email protected]

PURPOSE: To define the incidence of sexual dysfunction in a population of women with breast cancer treated with tamoxifen. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Breast cancer patients with a performance status of 0 to 2 who had been treated with tamoxifen for 2 to 24 months completed the following measures: the Center for Epidemiologic Studies-Depression Scale, the Sexual History Form, and the Breast Cancer Prevention Trial Symptom Checklist. Forty-nine of the participants underwent gynecologic examinations with vaginal smears for determination of estrogen effect. RESULTS: Fifty-seven women were entered onto the trial. Sexual desire, arousal, and ability to achieve orgasm were comparable to norms established in participants in the Tamoxifen Prevention Trial (National Surgical Adjuvant Breast and Bowel Project P-01). Pain, burning, or discomfort with intercourse was reported in 54% of patients and did not correlate with age, surgical treatment of the primary cancer, or chemotherapy. Estrogen effect was seen on the vaginal smears of 34 of 49 participants and was more common in older patients (P = .054). The presence of estrogen effect correlated with negative reactions during sex (P = .02) and vaginal dryness or tightness (P = .046). CONCLUSION: Women treated with tamoxifen in the adjuvant setting experienced symptoms of sexual dysfunction. The individual contributions of chemotherapy and tamoxifen to sexual dysfunction warrant prospective study.
 
Cancer. 1994 Jul 1;74(1):74-7. Related Articles, Links


Tamoxifen administration is associated with a high rate of treatment-limiting symptoms in male breast cancer patients.

Anelli TF, Anelli A, Tran KN, Lebwohl DE, Borgen PI.

Department of Surgery, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, New York 10021.

BACKGROUND. Although an uncommon disease, male breast cancer (MBC) will be responsible for 300 deaths in 1993 in the United States. Because of the high rate of estrogen receptor positivity in males, adjuvant hormonal therapy with tamoxifen in the adjuvant setting has been used widely. Little is known about the side effects of this estrogen receptor blocker in males. METHODS. The authors evaluated the side effects of adjuvant tamoxifen treatment in 24 patients (19 of whom were estrogen receptor positive) treated at the authors' institution between 1990 and 1993. RESULTS. Fifteen (62.5%) patients reported at least one side effect. The most common side effect was a decrease in libido, which occurred in 7 (29.2%) patients; followed by weight gain, which occurred in 6 (25%) patients; hot flashes, which occurred in 5 (20.8%); mood alterations, which occurred in 5 (20.8%); depression, which occurred in 4 (16.6%); insomnia, which occurred in 3 (12.5%); and deep venous thrombosis, which occurred in 1 (4.2%). Five (20.8%) patients terminated treatment with tamoxifen in less than 1 year because of these side effects. Two of these patients had decreased libido, two had hot flashes, and one suffered deep venous thrombosis. CONCLUSIONS. In contrast to female breast cancer patients, who have a 4% attrition rate to adjuvant tamoxifen treatment, MBC patients have a 20.8% attrition rate related to side effects of tamoxifen treatment
 
interesting interesting. So should I drop the nolva from the last 9 days of pct, or perhaps just get rid of the arimidex?
 
I have been where you are several times. You may end up having to run two PCT's. It looks like two but is one really long one.

300mgs clomid 3/days
200mgs clomid 3/days
100mgs clomid 42 days
2500 iu hcg every 72-96 hrs for two weeks.
Then just take the clomid for a week after you stop the HCG and then start the HCG up again at 1500 iu's 3X weekly or 500-1000 iu's everyday.Do this for another two weeks. All the while and afterward run the clomid. The eye trailers will disipate a lot after taking the clomid for a couple of weeks.

My best advice is to get some viagra or levitra until you are right again. It will help you bridge your recovery. Its fun to take too! Cialis is alright but does not have the punch of the other two.

Best of luck!
 
thanks darwin, however my nuts did drop back down and fill back up to size. I think it's probably a good idea to get my bloodwork done before doing another pct, what do you think?
 
Get the bloodwork. There is probably a prolactine issue going on. This may just take time to go away. It will leave you need patience. It sucks but this is part of the lifestyle.

dr_skier said:
thanks darwin, however my nuts did drop back down and fill back up to size. I think it's probably a good idea to get my bloodwork done before doing another pct, what do you think?
Click to expand...
 
Maybe the arimidex is driving estrogen to low and this could be the root of your problems?

With all this talk lately of nolva being bad maybe we should just go back to your typical 3 week course of hcg with nolva followed by 3 week of clomid and clen as was laid out in The World Anabolic Review 1996.

Seem like were trying to re invent the wheel sometimes.
 
and for the record, non of the erectile dysfunction drugs are going to do anything for sex drive or libido! they're job is to get the soldier to salute... they won't work though if the soldier has no morale!
 
Went for my bloodwork, expecting a call today. Gotta say, been off the nolvadex for 10 or so days now and my sex drive is much better. Morning wood is back and mr happy was a rock the last few times with the ol lady. I'll post as to my blood test results though soon. I still have a week of clomid left.
 
So I called them and they said that if there was anything abnormal about the blood results they would have already called me. I think i may still go down and get an exact number on my test levels.
 
I think that I have found something in dostinex that I have never found in other pct compounds. I have been taking it a couple of weeks and noticed the hard ons comeback quick and with ferocity of the likes that I have not seen since the first time I took HCG. It is also a dopamine agonist, in theory this should help with the depression/mood swings associated with discontinuation. I have experienced this first hand (if it is not the placebo effect) and it has brought me some refreshing comfort.

Skier, I am happy to hear that you are feeling better. That can be the most trying part of the life we have chose. I would suggest giving the dostinex a try no matter where you are at in PCT. Even if you are done. I will tell you if I keep experiencing the uncommon results from it that I believe I am recieving. Anyway, go read about it in other forums. Life-extension forums and sex-libido forums have some good info on it or just google it. I hope your recovery continues in a successful direction.
 
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