Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply puritysourcelabs US-PHARMACIES
UGL OZ Raptor Labs UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAKUS-PHARMACIESRaptor Labs

Gulf drilling yea/nea

txbondsman said:
how about funding the dumb sumbitches that choose to live in a known flood plain that can and does flood on a regular basis and wipes their asses out everytime. Wildfires in Cali too, same thing. If you choose to live there, that's on you. Otherwise, move....
Click to expand...


The relief fund would cover those areas. Peeps just seized on the notion of a hurricane and started crying over that.

Not everyone can live in paradise. Those that do should be compensated for it.

LOLelp.
 
txbondsman said:
that includes ANWAR. Did yall see the New York Post the other day, it gave a comparison so people could put in perspective what drilling there would be like. It had that one single letter on the open front page is what we want to use to produce energy. One stinking single letter! That's all the land that we need to get at the billions of barrels of oil.
We bought the damn thing for it's natural recources, use them!

Also, the Dems say that even when we start to look for more energy, be it in the gulf, on land, wherever, that it will take ten years to see any results at the pump. BS! In a producing field with the infrastructure already in place, 1 year. A known producing field, 2 years. Non-producing field, 3-4 years, unknown fields yet to be found, 6-7 years, but none of them are 10. Just as soon as the speculators here that more oil will be made available in the near future, they will sell their stocks and the price of oil will start to fall immediately. Like tomorrow...
Click to expand...

i agree.....

also, does it matter to the earth if we drill here or on the other side of the planet? no, but people here are so stupid with their "no dont drill here, not here" but yet they drive their cars and what not and do nothing to help. we need to drill here. anywhere we can, drill it.


btw, do those hydrogen generators for the car work? does it really save gas? i watched a bunch of videos on it and saw it work but videos can be altered. does anyone know if they actually do work?
 
75th said:
When did I say this would be a long term solution? We simply need to buy enough time to do stuff we, in hindsight, should have done 15 years ago.
Click to expand...

you are living in the past talking about stuff we should have done 15yrs ago as todays solutions,

I as other are looking into the future and planning for it ,


As for people that do not want drilling but drive all over the place in cars and waster energy all day long.

I am serious about the changes
all my light bulbs have been changed over to 6watt energy saving bulbs, I bicycle to the gym now and to the store, I bought a rollblade lawn mower that turns when I push to cut grass.

My computer is being powered from a solar panel from harbor tool and 4 car batteries linked together with a standered inverter ( from wall mart ) the extention cord is plugged into runs into my house. My internet is free WI-FI from a company around the corner.

The solar panel/battery inverter is what i made to take with us when we went to virgina to live in a cottage for a month last summer. Just needed basic power to send emails and charge flashlight and stuff like that.

I am reducing consumption, and hopefully others will follow, I'll admit we ( me and my wife ) were energy hogs with no room to talk that all changed last year when we spent a month on vacation in a cottage with no power, we relized it was not so bad being with out all the bullshit stuff , wood buring stove and woodburning to heat the hot water to bath in it opened out eyes up to all the luxuries we take for granted but could find other ways of doing them

I am working on a windmill from a volvo wheel hub that turns the pully on a altenator and send the charge down the line to the batteries.
Prob is I prob wont be able to get it high enough becuase of zoning regulations and being close to a AFB

But I am trying to do my part

If I can get a 12 more solar panels with 4 windmills one in every direction as back up and about 50 car batteries with a big inverted ,I could power my house day and night ( only using the ac a very little bit and keeping a temp of 77 degrees ) right through the electrical box and even feed back the grid and make money each month
 
chazk said:
you are living in the past talking about stuff we should have done 15yrs ago as todays solutions,

I as other are looking into the future and planning for it ,


As for people that do not want drilling but drive all over the place in cars and waster energy all day long.

I am serious about the changes
all my light bulbs have been changed over to 6watt energy saving bulbs, I bicycle to the gym now and to the store, I bought a rollblade lawn mower that turns when I push to cut grass.

My computer is being powered from a solar panel from harbor tool and 4 car batteries linked together with a standered inverter ( from wall mart ) the extention cord is plugged into runs into my house. My internet is free WI-FI from a company around the corner.

The solar panel/battery inverter is what i made to take with us when we went to virgina to live in a cottage for a month last summer. Just needed basic power to send emails and charge flashlight and stuff like that.

I am reducing consumption, and hopefully others will follow, I'll admit we ( me and my wife ) were energy hogs with no room to talk that all changed last year when we spent a month on vacation in a cottage with no power, we relized it was not so bad being with out all the bullshit stuff , wood buring stove and woodburning to heat the hot water to bath in it opened out eyes up to all the luxuries we take for granted but could find other ways of doing them

I am working on a windmill from a volvo wheel hub that turns the pully on a altenator and send the charge down the line to the batteries.
Prob is I prob wont be able to get it high enough becuase of zoning regulations and being close to a AFB

But I am trying to do my part

If I can get a 12 more solar panels with 4 windmills one in every direction as back up and about 50 car batteries with a big inverted ,I could power my house day and night ( only using the ac a very little bit and keeping a temp of 77 degrees ) right through the electrical box and even feed back the grid and make money each month
Click to expand...

This sounds so like me in the 70s. I wanted to live off grid and did for a while but got sucked back into the mainstream. My wife and I have reduced significantly as we have remodeled and 1870 house including full gut, insulate, all new siding, windows, doors, heating/ central air system with zones, shut computer/ entertainment equipment off when not in use, got rid of big cars/ trucks for smaller, ride bikes or walk around small town that we live in whenever possible ( we do have 4 kids to shuttle about), we recycle as much as possible. But the lawnmower is gas for 2.5 acres of which about 1.5 is lawn. We are far from perfect but we try.
 
You guys are still going!!! LOL

I'm kinda done with this point, I will say though it's pretty sad when it takes the cost of gas for us to change our habits, and look for fuel alternatives. Not that whole environmental we are destroying the planet thing.

Hybrid cars, E-85 and now that car by BMW that runs on H and it's exhuast is water. All came about because of the cost of fuel...

I still think we should drill, we still have a population that can't afford the immediate change over. I also think the change over needs to be at a rate that is reasonable. We need to take care of our needs right here and now, get strength back in the American Dollar, increase the job market. We need to stop relying on OPEC so much, they played this game back in 1972 I think it was, I remember Carter was in office and the gas lines that went around the block. They said there was a major gas shortage.

I like being ahead of the learning curve, and the US staying strong.

I'm glad to see so much input, it's pretty cool to see.
 
Ok just a couple of thoughts here:

Does anyone understand the actual cost of a single windmill? Now how about enough to power a small town?

What are they made of? Oh yeah polymers, plastics, and alloys which are PETROLEUM based products. So you have to have oil/coal to make them both in raw materials and in power generation for construction and manufacturing.

Here's another huge problem, energy transmission. Building a shitload of windmills, wave generators, etc. isn't going to help places that are farther inland. The power loss per mile through standard transmission sources is enormous. So before we can really even think of starting all this up we need to figure out how to upgrade the entire power grid (all five of them for those of you keeping score).

Now here's another little gem to consider. Yes hydrogen fuel cells and generators produce far less air pollutants. Now what are you going to do with the manufacturing byproducts, used batteries, and contact materials?

Now one more thing to consider. Who is going to pay for all of this? We aren't talking millions or even billions of dollars but trillions in order to switch the infrastructure over. Plus the changes take time, so what are we going to do in the interim?

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
Has anyone mentioned Alaska yet? Drill and pump that shit too, now!
 
joefire_2008 said:
How many people do you know that can straight out afford to buy a new car? or better yet how many in the US?

I don't think alternatives should not be looked into and built upon but, you have to look at what you have. As a whole I don't think the US is ready for such a conversion that fast.

Your statement makes it seem like everybody can just go right out and hop onboard with ie. hydrogen supply. It would be nice, except currently we are in a world of gas operated equipment. And that gas operated equipment is lubricated with oil, as is all electric powered equipment, or any equipment with moving parts. Alot of products are also produced from oil, loads of petrolium based products, tires, pipe (CPVC, PVC, etc...), vasaline, some plastics, etc...
Click to expand...
joefire_2008 said:
Yes, I know about that but, once again how many people are going to be able to afford it? ( buying a new car)

Also, what are you going to do with all the old cars?

Our entire military, the vehicles, ships, boats, and planes run on fossil fuels.
Now, you've just opened up a whole new expense, upgrading the military.

Commercial side of it Airplanes...

You still have the people in the US that will suffer from such an attempt. Like I said I'm for alternatives, it just has to work all the way around.
Click to expand...

I had brought that point up early in the game.
 
Some theoretical ideas.......

What we really need to be doing is working on solar power collection in low earth orbit, providing transmission to the ground using microwave technology (not like your microwave in the kitchen, that's actually using radio waves)......I know, I know....not for years, but still.... I think Japan is putting money into research for this.

Or how about this, I saw an interview on TV with Ray Kurzweil ( he invented a ton of shit, really smart guy) saying that our solar generating capability doubles every 4 years, and if it keeps this up (usually stuff tends to double faster as it ages) at this rate, in 15-20 years we'll have the capability to provide all electricity with solar power. I say when the technology becomes affordable, we cover wastelands like southern utah, parts of nevada and arizona with solar cells. There's nothing else you can do with this land....why the fuck not?



Oh, and in case you didnt catch it the first time, I said theoretical. Please dont reply saying how its too expensive, oil companies will block it, etc.
 
chazk said:
Settle down their big angry oil worker. When you are out of a job in 10 yrs.
I am sure you can change batteries in cars or something.
( gives mountain muscle a big hug )
Click to expand...
Us oil field workers will never be out of a job bro
 
chazk said:
outsourcing comes into play , 50 miles out ? will the oil companies hire forgien workers to work the rigs and commands the ships?

besides it is only temp , a few more years of oil at most

The reason the gulf of mexico is cleaner today then it was 15 yrs ago is due to conservation and stricter regulations on ships and oil platforms.
Click to expand...
Are you stupid,dumb, or just retarded? lol Few more years your retarded!!
 
chris302001 said:
Some theoretical ideas.......

What we really need to be doing is working on solar power collection in low earth orbit, providing transmission to the ground using microwave technology (not like your microwave in the kitchen, that's actually using radio waves)......I know, I know....not for years, but still.... I think Japan is putting money into research for this.

Or how about this, I saw an interview on TV with Ray Kurzweil ( he invented a ton of shit, really smart guy) saying that our solar generating capability doubles every 4 years, and if it keeps this up (usually stuff tends to double faster as it ages) at this rate, in 15-20 years we'll have the capability to provide all electricity with solar power. I say when the technology becomes affordable, we cover wastelands like southern utah, parts of nevada and arizona with solar cells. There's nothing else you can do with this land....why the fuck not?



Oh, and in case you didnt catch it the first time, I said theoretical. Please dont reply saying how its too expensive, oil companies will block it, etc.
Click to expand...
If you wanted to go theoretical then you should have mentioned Dyson spheres.:nerd:
 
Probably not profitable...

As soon as another hurricane comes through , they will be put out of commission.
Then the repair costs will be passed off to the consumer in increased gas prices.

I'm not for drilling , I'm for alternates such as fuel cells , lithium ion technology and cellulose ethanol. I'm not for expanding non renewable resources
 
gjohnson5 said:
Probably not profitable...

As soon as another hurricane comes through , they will be put out of commission.
Then the repair costs will be passed off to the consumer in increased gas prices.

I'm not for drilling , I'm for alternates such as fuel cells , lithium ion technology and cellulose ethanol. I'm not for expanding non renewable resources
Click to expand...
Katrina didn't have an appreciable effect on production. The rigs are designed better than the levies.
 
gjohnson5 said:
That's not the indication I got not only from the rigs a few miles offshore but also the refineries that needed work done and noone had homes to live in in Plaquimines Parish

Lemme check
Click to expand...
The refineries are one thing, the rigs may have suffered damage but they were engineered to survive a Katrina level storm.
 
Dumb me , I forgot the other big issue. The Port of New Orleans was also down for several months after Katrina. So no oil could come from the rigs to the refineries anyway. Not to mention shipping companies had to use the port of Savannah , Baltimore and other places to get goods headed for the Midwest.

People make threads about not wanting to help pay for hurricane damages, but those same people forget what happens down here affects you in Chicago. No port of New Orleans means increased fuel prices in itself...
 
juiceddreadlocks said:
MM, I'm still waiting on a job. What about the extreme rigs?
Click to expand...

Need to hear back from Travis to get the contact info. He is the lead co man for Anadarko. I have to head up there sometime this week and will talk to the toolpusher for you. You should probably come along.
 
mountain muscle said:
Need to hear back from Travis to get the contact info. He is the lead co man for Anadarko. I have to head up there sometime this week and will talk to the toolpusher for you. You should probably come along.
Click to expand...
I'm off tomorrow thru sunday...
 
chazk said:
Alot of republicans are pissed here in Florida about the drilling off shore.
The whole thing is the Big oil companies get to sit giant rigs off the coast out in the water and pump all the oil that can and want for free.
Instead of pumping from the land the own or leasing , the want to take it from the ocean and line their pockets.
Nothing will change the oil production will slow from alaska and texas becuase the oil companies will not want to use their land oil , when they can pump oil in the gulf for free then when the gulf is out go back to pumping more from the land they own.besides no new refineries are being built, it is just moving from oil drilling location to another

I love the beaches in florida I would hate for them to look like houston bay. with oil washing up onshore all the time.

Lots of republicans up in arms here about it. Charlie christ supports it, bush and mcbush support it .
I think becuase of this Florida will go demo and they just gave up a valuable state in ellectorial votes
Click to expand...


You are so incredibly mis-informed (it took everything I had to say fucking stupid).
 
BNG said:
There's parts of this that the public doesn't want to know. Like the fact that the Japanese have tankers that come into our ports, load crude, and take it out to a refining ship where it gets transfered ship to ship, is refined, and brought back to our ports and sold back to us.
Like for instance, both China and Russia have oil platforms off the Alaskan coast. That France is investing in offshore drilling by Florida, and Mexico is trying to work with El Salvador to develop offshore fields using directional drilling.
Click to expand...

Oil is shipped from Alaska to Japan because it is closer than shipping it to a refinery in the US that can process it. Please keep in mind Alaska is a LONG ass ways away. The economics work out better this way.
 
chazk said:
Do you think the oil companies being offshore will use out of country workers and pay them cheap , kinda like the cruise line companies do ?
In otherwards creating jobs for other countries.
Down the street from my parents coca-cola owns a 400 acre orange company tropicana orangejuice ).Cocacola flies in workers from guam to pick the fruit, the workers get a shuttle that takes them from a hotel to the field. Each worker makes 2$ a hour us pay , then board the plane and fly home after the feild is picked and machines shut down untill the next year
coca cola does this with over 30 locations in florida
Click to expand...

I am sorry if this has already been answered but I am on page 6 here and you are still way off base.

Drilling offshore is NOT FREE!!!!!! Depending how far offshore the wells are, they are either in State waters or Federal waters. In both cases the state or the federal government is paid royalties for these. In addition, it is all covered under US laws and regulations. There is a whole use governement body that regulates this called the MMS (Minerals Management Service).

Offshore workers are very well paid - some of the best pay in the oil industry.

Offshore drilling is VERY expensive and why oil companies prefer to drill onshore. A drilling rig for offshore can cost you up to $250-$450k/day compared to $10k-$25k onshore.

Offshore oil facilities are equally as expensive probably to the tune of about 10 times more expensive than onshore facilities.

Why do people drill offshore??? Why do people rob banks - because that is where the money is. Same for offshore - that is where the remaining bigger fields are.

Seriously dude - my IQ went down from reading your post.
 
Last point - and this has been discussed before, the reason nobody is building new refineries is that oil production is not increasing.

What are the new refineries supposed to process - air????

Crude oil production has not increased since 2005. This is with some of the best drilling economics that have ever been around in the industry.

Why?? Because the big fields are old and tired. Also, there is equipments and people shortages.
 
This is also another argument heard during Katrina. The oil rigs off the Louisiana coast are far enough out that the state of Louisiana is paid nothing for their use. But obviously local resources are used for the operation and maintenance of those rigs....

billfred said:
Drilling offshore is NOT FREE!!!!!! Depending how far offshore the wells are, they are either in State waters or Federal waters. In both cases the state or the federal government is paid royalties for these. In addition, it is all covered under US laws and regulations. There is a whole use governement body that regulates this called the MMS (Minerals Management Service).
Click to expand...
 
gjohnson5 said:
This is also another argument heard during Katrina. The oil rigs off the Louisiana coast are far enough out that the state of Louisiana is paid nothing for their use. But obviously local resources are used for the operation and maintenance of those rigs....
Click to expand...

Local resources are well compensated (profit) for any support to those rigs.
 
mountain muscle said:
Chaz, you need to educate yourself about drilling before you post such bs.

There is no reason not to drill there.

Oil washing up onshore? Are you fucking kidding me?
Click to expand...


Im all for off-shore drilling.. but he has a point. I finished high school just north of Santa Barbara and used to surf (badly) just north at a beach called Jalama. You could see oil rigs out there pumping away.. and by the time you got to the water.. your feet would be covered in tar from all the oil residue.

Shit was nasty as fuck and took forever to clean off your feet..

I say that but.. as far as Im concerned.. we need a short term fix to keep us going for a few years until we can ramp up hydrogen and electric vehicles to the point where the average consumer has reayd access to hem.. so for now fuck the beaches.. they dont keep our economy afloat
 
I guess need to define "short term"
Why would increasing oil rigs offshore be a short term fix instead of investing in newer technologies such as fuel cells , hydrogen technology, lithium ion technology, and cellulose ethanol? I've read that any benefits from doing so would only be reaped some 10 years now.... The stock market has already taken a hit from all this oil drilling talk. Why not invest in alternatives?

You already believe that oil drilling is destroying the environment.

milo hobgoblin said:
I say that but.. as far as Im concerned.. we need a short term fix to keep us going for a few years until we can ramp up hydrogen and electric vehicles to the point where the average consumer has reayd access to hem.. so for now fuck the beaches.. they dont keep our economy afloat
Click to expand...
 
gjohnson5 said:
Yeah , can't live with 'em and can't shoot 'em
Would love to beat em' up however

:lmao:
Click to expand...
LOL at thinking this is a republican vs democrat issue.

Whats really funny is that now the anti-drill teams (aka leftie retards) are arguing that it will take too long for this to make an impact. 5 years at least.

What were the pro-drill teams (aka intelligent economic conservatives with the gift of foresight) doing 5 years ago? Trying to convince everybody to drill at places like ANWR. Even if we tapped only .01% of that place, it would be to the tune of 10 billion barrels of oil.

Lost opportunity thanks to the people that are responsible for $.46 of every gallon of gas going to the government as some sort of tax.

I would bring up again how small the profit margins are of oil companies (the nasty greedy ones) but dont take my word for it...John Lott even said that over the past 25 years oil companies have paid more than three times in taxes what theyve made in profits.

But yeah, we should keep blaming them and taxing them more. Taxes are always the answer.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Im all for off-shore drilling.. but he has a point. I finished high school just north of Santa Barbara and used to surf (badly) just north at a beach called Jalama. You could see oil rigs out there pumping away.. and by the time you got to the water.. your feet would be covered in tar from all the oil residue.

Shit was nasty as fuck and took forever to clean off your feet..

I say that but.. as far as Im concerned.. we need a short term fix to keep us going for a few years until we can ramp up hydrogen and electric vehicles to the point where the average consumer has reayd access to hem.. so for now fuck the beaches.. they dont keep our economy afloat
Click to expand...


:lmao:
 
gjohnson5 said:
I guess need to define "short term"
Why would increasing oil rigs offshore be a short term fix instead of investing in newer technologies such as fuel cells , hydrogen technology, lithium ion technology, and cellulose ethanol? I've read that any benefits from doing so would only be reaped some 10 years now.... The stock market has already taken a hit from all this oil drilling talk. Why not invest in alternatives?

You already believe that oil drilling is destroying the environment.
Click to expand...

Short term.. 3-5 years. The Japanese already have a productiobn ready electric car for 20k with a 150 dollaar month battery lease. Within 3-5 years that car could be brought down to a more realistic price range through production and battery refinements allowing the average American to afford the technology.

Within ten years we can have Gen 4 breeder reactors up and running. utilizing existing stores of depleted Uranium.. farms of solar and wind.

We need something NOW.. not yesterday.. not in a week.. now.

And that shit is just sitting in the ground.. Oil serves NO purpose in the grand scheme of the planet other than making plastics and burning it for fuel. Might as well use it while we need it.
 
I honestly dont get why people are screaming about increasing taxes on the oil companies.. they make a 9-10% profit on a barrel of oil.. that actually quite a bit less than many consumer industries.. yet we expect the oil companies to pay more just because their profit reflects mass volume???

makes no sense and they dont OWE us anymore than any other company.. not only is that not fair.. its illegal. We dont penalize someone just because we "need" their product more.

The reason they are making record profits is because oil is trading at ridculously high values right now.. and 9-10% of of 140/b is a lot more than it is 80/b..

Have that many of you failed math?? or are you just spiteful and think oil companies owe you simply because your parents could breed?

I HATE that Im paying so much for gas.. but Im gonna blame someone.. Im gonna blamethe fucktarded ass liberal enviro fucks who shut down 20 refineries in Cali in the last 20 yeas by making it so hard to keep running only the largest could stay in business..

Im gonna blame the auto industry and the SUV consumer.. who didnt heed the warnings and start developing and buying high mileage vehicles .. knowing this shit was inevitible..

I'll blame the idiots who created so much red tape for nuclear energy that we have to subsidize the fuck out of the industry.. bringing research to a standstill.. when we could have had breeder reactors a decade ago.. online and producing zero emission electricity..
 
milo hobgoblin said:
I honestly dont get why people are screaming about increasing taxes on the oil companies.. they make a 9-10% profit on a barrel of oil.. that actually quite a bit less than many consumer industries.. yet we expect the oil companies to pay more just because their profit reflects mass volume???

makes no sense and they dont OWE us anymore than any other company.. not only is that not fair.. its illegal. We dont penalize someone just because we "need" their product more.

The reason they are making record profits is because oil is trading at ridculously high values right now.. and 9-10% of of 140/b is a lot more than it is 80/b..

Have that many of you failed math?? or are you just spiteful and think oil companies owe you simply because your parents could breed?

I HATE that Im paying so much for gas.. but Im gonna blame someone.. Im gonna blamethe fucktarded ass liberal enviro fucks who shut down 20 refineries in Cali in the last 20 yeas by making it so hard to keep running only the largest could stay in business..

Im gonna blame the auto industry and the SUV consumer.. who didnt heed the warnings and start developing and buying high mileage vehicles .. knowing this shit was inevitible..

I'll blame the idiots who created so much red tape for nuclear energy that we have to subsidize the fuck out of the industry.. bringing research to a standstill.. when we could have had breeder reactors a decade ago.. online and producing zero emission electricity..
Click to expand...
+1
 
milo hobgoblin said:
makes no sense and they dont OWE us anymore than any other company.. not only is that not fair.. its illegal. We dont penalize someone just because we "need" their product more.
Click to expand...

There's nothing ILLEGAL about increasing taxes on a certain industry. There's a perception that they oil companies have extorted the end user as well as small business, airlines, transportation companies, food distributors and pretty much everyone industry. The problem for them is that as gas prices go up so does everything else. Gas prices are like an inflation all in itself
 
chazk said:
Alot of republicans are pissed here in Florida about the drilling off shore.
The whole thing is the Big oil companies get to sit giant rigs off the coast out in the water and pump all the oil that can and want for free.
Instead of pumping from the land the own or leasing , the want to take it from the ocean and line their pockets.
Nothing will change the oil production will slow from alaska and texas becuase the oil companies will not want to use their land oil , when they can pump oil in the gulf for free then when the gulf is out go back to pumping more from the land they own.besides no new refineries are being built, it is just moving from oil drilling location to another

I love the beaches in florida I would hate for them to look like houston bay. with oil washing up onshore all the time.

Lots of republicans up in arms here about it. Charlie christ supports it, bush and mcbush support it .
I think becuase of this Florida will go demo and they just gave up a valuable state in ellectorial votes
Click to expand...

so the raw sewage and medical waste is ok, but not oil??

oh wait, that's virginia beach.. hmmm
 
gjohnson5 said:
There's nothing ILLEGAL about increasing taxes on a certain industry. There's a perception that they oil companies have extorted the end user as well as small business, airlines, transportation companies, food distributors and pretty much everyone industry. The problem for them is that as gas prices go up so does everything else. Gas prices are like an inflation all in itself
Click to expand...

Thats the problem though.. the oil industry is HIGHLY regulated and watched by the government like a pitbull watches a two year old with hungry eyes.

Their profit margins are highly publicized..

and Id have to disagree with you on the legality of taxing an industry simply because of the nature of their product.

I challenge you to show me where in the constitution that specific power is authorized by the people to our government.. we may accept it and look the other way.. but the simple fact is that our government has no authority to do so.

and again.. the simple fact the we NEED gasoline and many facets of our economy are directly dependent on its value.. is not the fault of the oil companies.. they are simply providing a product at a low profit margin .. and again it IS low compared to MANY consumer products.

Care to take a guess what the profit margin is on a pair of Nikes or Levis.. I can promise you its a hell of a lot higher than 9%.
 
gjohnson5 said:
Where did I say any such thing?

And I surely wasn't thinking it either...


I was just telling a joke , that's all
Click to expand...
Was talking about ffobullshit

And I wasnt a marine.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Thats the problem though.. the oil industry is HIGHLY regulated and watched by the government like a pitbull watches a two year old with hungry eyes.

Their profit margins are highly publicized..

and Id have to disagree with you on the legality of taxing an industry simply because of the nature of their product.

I challenge you to show me where in the constitution that specific power is authorized by the people to our government.. we may accept it and look the other way.. but the simple fact is that our government has no authority to do so.

and again.. the simple fact the we NEED gasoline and many facets of our economy are directly dependent on its value.. is not the fault of the oil companies.. they are simply providing a product at a low profit margin .. and again it IS low compared to MANY consumer products.

Care to take a guess what the profit margin is on a pair of Nikes or Levis.. I can promise you its a hell of a lot higher than 9%.
Click to expand...


Windfall profits taxing and it has been done before to the oil companies.

Also Oil companies make 9% on gas at the pump, on crude it is way higher than that.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
gjohnson5 said:
The marine thing as also a joke , not directed at you...

Man you're ancy tonite...
But then again you're always ancy towards me :chomp:
Click to expand...
:blow:
 
milo hobgoblin said:
and BTW I still that that looks like Morgan Freeman when he was still black.

:)
Click to expand...
 
Scotsman said:
Windfall profits taxing and it has been done before to the oil companies.

Also Oil companies make 9% on gas at the pump, on crude it is way higher than that.

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...


Sorry bro.. no its not

Oil industry average profit margin is about 8.2%; (3rd Q. '05)
Click to expand...
thats total profit margin.. not specific to crude or gas.

Oil company profits: A perspective
Earnings, Revenues, Profits (Billions) for selected companies, recent quarter, 2005
Source: Bloomberg News, reported in AAPG Explorer Dec. 2005
Company Net Profit Revenue Profit Margin

Citigroup (banking) $7.1 $21.5 33%
Microsoft $3.1 $9.7 32%
Coca-Cola $1.3 $6.0 21%
Procter & Gamble $2.0 $14.8 14%
General Electric $4.7 $41.6 11%
ExxonMobil $9.9 $92.6 11%
ConocoPhillips $3.8 $48.7 8%
IBM $1.5 $21.5 7%
Chevron $3.6 $51.1 7%
Wal-Mart $2.8 $76.8 4%


funny no one is bitching to raise the taxes on Coca Cola



http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html#dollar
 
Fucking Coke.

I love Coke Zero, though. Tax that shit so we can subsidize the release of Pibb Zero nationwide.
 
Oil companies can be taxed on profits from gasoline sales which would be an excise tax. Excise taxes can be placed on any income excluding property sale, so it's clearly Constitutional

milo hobgoblin said:
Thats the problem though.. the oil industry is HIGHLY regulated and watched by the government like a pitbull watches a two year old with hungry eyes.

Their profit margins are highly publicized..

and Id have to disagree with you on the legality of taxing an industry simply because of the nature of their product.

I challenge you to show me where in the constitution that specific power is authorized by the people to our government.. we may accept it and look the other way.. but the simple fact is that our government has no authority to do so.

and again.. the simple fact the we NEED gasoline and many facets of our economy are directly dependent on its value.. is not the fault of the oil companies.. they are simply providing a product at a low profit margin .. and again it IS low compared to MANY consumer products.

Care to take a guess what the profit margin is on a pair of Nikes or Levis.. I can promise you its a hell of a lot higher than 9%.
Click to expand...
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Sorry bro.. no its not

thats total profit margin.. not specific to crude or gas.

Oil company profits: A perspective
Earnings, Revenues, Profits (Billions) for selected companies, recent quarter, 2005
Source: Bloomberg News, reported in AAPG Explorer Dec. 2005
Company Net Profit Revenue Profit Margin

Citigroup (banking) $7.1 $21.5 33%
Microsoft $3.1 $9.7 32%
Coca-Cola $1.3 $6.0 21%
Procter & Gamble $2.0 $14.8 14%
General Electric $4.7 $41.6 11%
ExxonMobil $9.9 $92.6 11%
ConocoPhillips $3.8 $48.7 8%
IBM $1.5 $21.5 7%
Chevron $3.6 $51.1 7%
Wal-Mart $2.8 $76.8 4%


funny no one is bitching to raise the taxes on Coca Cola



http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html#dollar
Click to expand...


Yes their total profit margin is in that range and you're still talking 15+ billion per quarter. Bet yet the government still pays them subsidies.

And yes their profit per barrel is way higher than that. Production cost hasn't changed in the last ten years on average but the price of a bbl of oil is 7x as much, so how are they only making ~10%?

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
gjohnson5 said:
Oil companies can be taxed on profits from gasoline sales which would be an excise tax. Excise taxes can be placed on any income excluding property sale, so it's clearly Constitutional
Click to expand...

Umm err...

Excise or Excise tax (sometimes called an excise duty), is a type of tax charged on goods produced within the country (as opposed to customs duties, charged on goods from outside the country).
Click to expand...

The typical excuse for the excise tax on gasoline is its harm on the environment.. The COST of gasonline or oil is a non sequiter as gas or oil does NOT become more harmful simply because its more expensive so and Excise tax would be innappropriate.

We place an excise tax on gasoline per gallon at a static rate because we place an environmental cost per gallon used on the gasoline.. its regardless of the cost as its a fixed tax per gallon (not a percentage of cost)

So again.. increasing the taxes as a direct result of profit is still not a valid arguement.
 
Scotsman said:
Yes their total profit margin is in that range and you're still talking 15+ billion per quarter. Bet yet the government still pays them subsidies.

And yes their profit per barrel is way higher than that. Production cost hasn't changed in the last ten years on average but the price of a bbl of oil is 7x as much, so how are they only making ~10%?

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...

again 10% of $140/b is A LOT more than 10% of $80/b. And the production costs HAVE gone up.. but that really isnt the primary factor. The massive increase in regulations have greatly increased the cost of gasoline.

A perfect example would be the number of refineries in operation at peak capacity.. do you have any idea how costly it is to run a refinery at 95% capacoty as oppsoed to 75%?? Even the SLIGHTEST problem spikes the cost per gallon.

You do realize many of these refineries are buying the oil from speculators who simply trade the oil .. never actually taking possesion of it.. the refineries buy the oil at the price determined by the market, refine it and resell it.

I think people have a HUGE misunderstanding of how oil is bought and sold before its refined.

Oil companies do NOT simply suck it out of the ground.. and send it to a refinery.. it may be bought and sold multiple times by completely independent parties before the refinery takes possesion.

EVERY time it switches hands the refineries proft margin drops.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
again 10% of $140/b is A LOT more than 10% of $80/b. And the production costs HAVE gone up.. but that really isnt the primary factor. The massive increase in regulations have greatly increased the cost of gasoline.

A perfect example would be the number of refineries in operation at peak capacity.. do you have any idea how costly it is to run a refinery at 95% capacoty as oppsoed to 75%?? Even the SLIGHTEST problem spikes the cost per gallon.

You do realize many of these refineries are buying the oil from speculators who simply trade the oil .. never actually taking possesion of it.. the refineries buy the oil at the price determined by the market, refine it and resell it.

I think people have a HUGE misunderstanding of how oil is bought and sold before its refined.

Oil companies do NOT simply suck it out of the ground.. and send it to a refinery.. it may be bought and sold multiple times by completely independent parties before the refinery takes possesion.

EVERY time it switches hands the refineries proft margin drops.
Click to expand...


Well since I worked in the O+G exploration industry I'm going to guess I have a little bit better idea of what production costs are than most. The price of oil has almost zero to do with the supply and demand paradigm. Also the price of gasoline has very little to do with the price of oil.

Trust me I understand all too well exactly how all this works.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
I wasnt saying it made sense , I was just saying it's legal.
I wish I had a real solution , but I don't think there is a solution to market fluctuation. If a barrel of crude goes up, I agree that they should charge more for gasoline. How much more is a matter of opinion however


milo hobgoblin said:
Umm err...



The typical excuse for the excise tax on gasoline is its harm on the environment.. The COST of gasonline or oil is a non sequiter as gas or oil does NOT become more harmful simply because its more expensive so and Excise tax would be innappropriate.

We place an excise tax on gasoline per gallon at a static rate because we place an environmental cost per gallon used on the gasoline.. its regardless of the cost as its a fixed tax per gallon (not a percentage of cost)

So again.. increasing the taxes as a direct result of profit is still not a valid arguement.
Click to expand...
 
Scotsman said:
Well since I worked in the O+G exploration industry I'm going to guess I have a little bit better idea of what production costs are than most. The price of oil has almost zero to do with the supply and demand paradigm. Also the price of gasoline has very little to do with the price of oil.

Trust me I understand all too well exactly how all this works.

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...


Id say a lot of economists would disagree with you... but maybe you have some inside scoop that many others dont.

and as far as production costs.. while you may have worked at an exploration company... Id say that has little to do with refinery operation and energy trading.

I work for a large utility company that trades energy.. (natural gas and electricity).. and many of the traders have worked in the oil speculation industry (yes its a joke to call it an industry .. as scammers would be more appropriate).. but speculation does greatly distort supply and demand.

But I will disagree with you on production costs to the pump as California is having HUGE problems with refinery capacity and the increased cosst of high capacity operation.

And while poduction costs to the pump do not have an effect on oil prices they have a direct effect on the consumer and on the proft margin of the parent company whoowns the refinery.
 
milo hobgoblin said:
again 10% of $140/b is A LOT more than 10% of $80/b. And the production costs HAVE gone up.. but that really isnt the primary factor. The massive increase in regulations have greatly increased the cost of gasoline.

A perfect example would be the number of refineries in operation at peak capacity.. do you have any idea how costly it is to run a refinery at 95% capacoty as oppsoed to 75%?? Even the SLIGHTEST problem spikes the cost per gallon.

You do realize many of these refineries are buying the oil from speculators who simply trade the oil .. never actually taking possesion of it.. the refineries buy the oil at the price determined by the market, refine it and resell it.

I think people have a HUGE misunderstanding of how oil is bought and sold before its refined.

Oil companies do NOT simply suck it out of the ground.. and send it to a refinery.. it may be bought and sold multiple times by completely independent parties before the refinery takes possesion.

EVERY time it switches hands the refineries proft margin drops.
Click to expand...
I think the misunderstanding comes from the fact that people don't understand commodities. If US oil production increased it would go on the global market and would only lower price if it actually increased supply. It's not like drilling in the US means all that oil offsets foreign production, they could lower production to compensate. People think domestic oil is automatically consumed domestically, it's a fungible good and the market is worldwide. The fastest way to bring down oil prices would be to nuke China and India into non-existence because they are emerging competing consumers. :worried:
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Id say a lot of economists would disagree with you... but maybe you have some inside scoop that many others dont.

and as far as production costs.. while you may have worked at an exploration company... Id say that has little to do with refinery operation and energy trading.

I work for a large utility company that trades energy.. (natural gas and electricity).. and many of the traders have worked in the oil speculation industry (yes its a joke to call it an industry .. as scammers would be more appropriate).. but speculation does greatly distort supply and demand.

But I will disagree with you on production costs to the pump as California is having HUGE problems with refinery capacity and the increased cosst of high capacity operation.

And while poduction costs to the pump do not have an effect on oil prices they have a direct effect on the consumer and on the proft margin of the parent company whoowns the refinery.
Click to expand...

I think we are trying to make a similar point here. The actual production cost of oil has nothing to do with refining costs. Refining/supply chain dictate the cost at the pump. Most oil companies make less than 10 cents per gallon from the sale at the pump. Their profit comes from selling their oil on the open market so it can them be bought for refining purposes.

So the production cost of oil has almost nothing to do with the cost of refined fuel.

Oh and trust me I am as pissed off as anyone about the cost at the pump. But if California wants cheaper gas then they need to build refineries and not rely on other states/countries for their supply. They shut down most of their refining capacity due to envirnmental pressure, but yet Cali remains the highest volume end user.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
javaguru said:
I think the misunderstanding comes from the fact that people don't understand commodities. If US oil production increased it would go on the global market and would only lower price if it actually increased supply. It's not like drilling in the US means all that oil offsets foreign production, they could lower production to compensate. People think domestic oil is automatically consumed domestically, it's a fungible good and the market is worldwide. The fastest way to bring down oil prices would be to nuke China and India into non-existence because they are emerging competing consumers. :worried:
Click to expand...

LMFAO.. its probably horrible of me to say this.. but I actually had that same exact thought yesterday when we were discussing this at work.

and the reality is your exactly right.. we buy from a global market of commodities brokers (in this case that commodity being oil) and they will simply sell to the highest bidder.

We can drill the fuck out of our coast lines and polar bear habitats.. but if the chinese are willing to pay more for it than we are.. the price of that commodity will go up.

The best option is to greatly increasethe supply letting the market naturally adjust and the price will drop.. globally.. while simultaneously reducing demand with high mileage cars and converting macro energy production to Nuclear, Wind, Hydroelectric and Solar power.
 
Scotsman said:
I think we are trying to make a similar point here. The actual production cost of oil has nothing to do with refining costs. Refining/supply chain dictate the cost at the pump. Most oil companies make less than 10 cents per gallon from the sale at the pump. Their profit comes from selling their oil on the open market so it can them be bought for refining purposes.

So the production cost of oil has almost nothing to do with the cost of refined fuel.

Oh and trust me I am as pissed off as anyone about the cost at the pump. But if California wants cheaper gas then they need to build refineries and not rely on other states/countries for their supply. They shut down most of their refining capacity due to envirnmental pressure, but yet Cali remains the highest volume end user.

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...

QFT.
 
Unfortunately I had the understanding (or misunderstanding) that 2/3 of our oil came from us. We drill for 2/3 of it. We only buy 1/3 of it from global markets


milo hobgoblin said:
LMFAO.. its probably horrible of me to say this.. but I actually had that same exact thought yesterday when we were discussing this at work.

and the reality is your exactly right.. we buy from a global market of commodities brokers (in this case that commodity being oil) and they will simply sell to the highest bidder.

We can drill the fuck out of our coast lines and polar bear habitats.. but if the chinese are willing to pay more for it than we are.. the price of that commodity will go up.

The best option is to greatly increasethe supply letting the market naturally adjust and the price will drop.. globally.. while simultaneously reducing demand with high mileage cars and converting macro energy production to Nuclear, Wind, Hydroelectric and Solar power.
Click to expand...
 
javaguru said:
I think the misunderstanding comes from the fact that people don't understand commodities. If US oil production increased it would go on the global market and would only lower price if it actually increased supply. It's not like drilling in the US means all that oil offsets foreign production, they could lower production to compensate. People think domestic oil is automatically consumed domestically, it's a fungible good and the market is worldwide. The fastest way to bring down oil prices would be to nuke China and India into non-existence because they are emerging competing consumers. :worried:
Click to expand...

DING DING DING , we have a winner, Highest bidder gets the oil.

now about nuking china and india , Wal mart would no longer exist , phone centers in india would be gone. Might actually be on something here
 
1. Right now, today, any American oil company can drill off our coast in over 78,000 acres of off shore land that holds over 80% of our known off shore reserves yet not one company has chosen to do so.

2.The only way a foreign company may drill off our shore within our international boundary is through a joint venture with an American oil company. Again...no companies have chosen to do so.

3. People are fucking stupid to believe any of the drivel coming from the right.
 
I've had certain beliefs such as your but no information to back those up
But are you insinuating that oil companies are holding out due to current profit margins?



WODIN said:
1. Right now, today, any American oil company can drill off our coast in over 78,000 acres of off shore land that holds over 80% of our known off shore reserves yet not one company has chosen to do so.

2.The only way a foreign company may drill off our shore within our international boundary is through a joint venture with an American oil company. Again...no companies have chosen to do so.

3. People are fucking stupid to believe any of the drivel coming from the right.
Click to expand...
 
WODIN said:
1. Right now, today, any American oil company can drill off our coast in over 78,000 acres of off shore land that holds over 80% of our known off shore reserves yet not one company has chosen to do so.

2.The only way a foreign company may drill off our shore within our international boundary is through a joint venture with an American oil company. Again...no companies have chosen to do so.

3. People are fucking stupid to believe any of the drivel coming from the right.
Click to expand...



Wow. So we aren't drilling offshore at all?

Please link where you got this.
 
Again, lol @ people suggesting this is a left vs right issue.

People can be so stupid sometimes.
 
I'm not sure about left vs right , but I can understand (and have already said) that some who are calling this "ann energy crisis" are probably "crying wolf"

OPEC on hearing speculation of us drilling for oil cut production. Obviously so they could make more $$$. Less supply while greater demand = higher price....
I'm just curious if there's information that US oil companies (and Haliburton) are doing something similar
 
milo hobgoblin said:
Im all for off-shore drilling.. but he has a point. I finished high school just north of Santa Barbara and used to surf (badly) just north at a beach called Jalama. You could see oil rigs out there pumping away.. and by the time you got to the water.. your feet would be covered in tar from all the oil residue.

Shit was nasty as fuck and took forever to clean off your feet..

I say that but.. as far as Im concerned.. we need a short term fix to keep us going for a few years until we can ramp up hydrogen and electric vehicles to the point where the average consumer has reayd access to hem.. so for now fuck the beaches.. they dont keep our economy afloat
Click to expand...

Here is the flip side of that. On the Texas beaches of Galveston and Port Bolivar, you used to have to keep a can of Crisco outside your door too use to clean the crude oil off your feet when you walked the beach. At night, the ocean was lit up like a small city with all the rigs and offshore platforms.

I was just down there recently, no crude on my feet at all and at night, the platforms are few and far between. Oil is at $140 / bbl.

Now which do you want, a little oil on your feet or $5 gas??
 
Scotsman said:
Well since I worked in the O+G exploration industry I'm going to guess I have a little bit better idea of what production costs are than most. The price of oil has almost zero to do with the supply and demand paradigm. Also the price of gasoline has very little to do with the price of oil.

Trust me I understand all too well exactly how all this works.

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...

Scotsman - you need to take a step back into the industry if you think production cost are not going up.

Tis true that production margins have increased over but replacement cost have more than tripled and they are going to do that again over the next few years. Hell pipe has doubled since February.
 
billfred said:
Here is the flip side of that. On the Texas beaches of Galveston and Port Bolivar, you used to have to keep a can of Crisco outside your door too use to clean the crude oil off your feet when you walked the beach. At night, the ocean was lit up like a small city with all the rigs and offshore platforms.

I was just down there recently, no crude on my feet at all and at night, the platforms are few and far between. Oil is at $140 / bbl.

Now which do you want, a little oil on your feet or $5 gas??
Click to expand...
+1 Yes it use to be like that where I lived on the coast of Louisiana but you don't ever find oil tar on the beach anymore due to all the regulations.
 
i find it ironic that the biggest consumers of oil and gasoline (east and west coast people) refuse to have offshore drilling done off "THEIR" coasts...but have NO problem buring up the product.. :rolleyes:


"dont tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree!" -- Huey Pierce Long, lawyer, politicain, populist, song writer of the 1930's. :artist:
 
rnch said:
i find it ironic that the biggest consumers of oil and gasoline (east and west coast people) refuse to have offshore drilling done off "THEIR coasts...but have NO problem buring up the product.. :rolleyes:


"dont tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree!" -- Huey Pierce Long, lawyer, politicain, populist, song writer of the 1930's. :artist:
Click to expand...
+1 that's what pisses me off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

hanselthecaretaker
Russia spills a Deepwater Horizon size leak every two months
Replies
1
Views
1K
PICK3
PICK3
billfred
Oil and Nuclear Explosions
Replies
15
Views
3K
needtogetarmy
needtogetarmy
hanselthecaretaker
California Dreamin', Obama style
Replies
42
Views
7K
brownbrown
brownbrown
shirlene29
the internet is a strange place
Replies
52
Views
10K
nangiggles
nangiggles
hanselthecaretaker
Interesting piece: How to prevent the "End of America"
Replies
6
Views
2K
-SD-
-SD-
Top Bottom