Guess who's having an Economic Boom!

[fistfullofsteel]

i've been seriously thinking about moving to brazil. when usa invades iran and russia and china say enough of this and starts sending nuclear missles towards usa hopefully i won't anywhere near nyc.

 

[roadwarrior]

+1

Free trade works great, as long as we're viable as a manufacturer. But when you over-regulate, over-tax and have an out-of-control tort system, you lose-out in the global economy.

This is where we are losing it. Excessively high wages to compete in a global market coupled with taxes, regulations, and liability keep us from maintaining our share let alone grow it. We have brains, hard work and innovation at the top. The melting pot and opportunity has made us a people that create things and ideas but the middle tier breaks down when it comes to building them then the bottom tier sucks us dry by expecting the goverment to take care of them with our taxes.

Even in our small tech company, we are looking at acquiring a stake in an offshore company to lower development costs. We are finding most of the young people we interview want too much money for too little experience and contribution. They seem to think the nice condo and BMW are guaranteed with 3 years experience. In India, I can get 48 hrs a week our of a guy for $1200 and he has a master degree, does the work with minimal supervision, never misses a meeting ( even when they are at midnight his time) and never misses a deliverable.

My father-in-law has partnerships in four factories in China. He makes athletic shoes under contract for some of the big names. He laments that he had to move mfg to China but says it was the only way for his company to survive. He talks of moving it back but I can tell it is only wishful thinking.

 

[AEKDB]

This is where we are losing it. Excessively high wages to compete in a global market coupled with taxes, regulations, and liability keep us from maintaining our share let alone grow it. We have brains, hard work and innovation at the top. The melting pot and opportunity has made us a people that create things and ideas but the middle tier breaks down when it comes to building them then the bottom tier sucks us dry by expecting the goverment to take care of them with our taxes.

Even in our small tech company, we are looking at acquiring a stake in an offshore company to lower development costs. We are finding most of the young people we interview want too much money for too little experience and contribution. They seem to think the nice condo and BMW are guaranteed with 3 years experience. In India, I can get 48 hrs a week our of a guy for $1200 and he has a master degree, does the work with minimal supervision, never misses a meeting ( even when they are at midnight his time) and never misses a deliverable.

My father-in-law has partnerships in four factories in China. He makes athletic shoes under contract for some of the big names. He laments that he had to move mfg to China but says it was the only way for his company to survive. He talks of moving it back but I can tell it is only wishful thinking.

This is the way it should be.American workers are expensive. If your good/service requires the type of jobs American workers excel at, then you will pay for them and pass the cost through to your customers. If cheaper labor in another country can do an equal job, you will choose this option and pass the lower cost to your customers. It is the product life cycle: product life cycle

The three things I have found most people can not understand is:

1. Free trade is the only viable market.
2. Loosing manufacturing jobs, and even low end service jobs, is good for the us economy.
3. Greed is good. That is, everyone working in their own best interest will benefit all.

 

[Razorguns]

This is the way it should be.American workers are expensive. If your good/service requires the type of jobs American workers excel at, then you will pay for them and pass the cost through to your customers. If cheaper labor in another country can do an equal job, you will choose this option and pass the lower cost to your customers. It is the product life cycle: product life cycle

The three things I have found most people can not understand is:

1. Free trade is the only viable market.
2. Loosing manufacturing jobs, and even low end service jobs, is good for the us economy.
3. Greed is good. That is, everyone working in their own best interest will benefit all.

Word.

Why do you think corporate america is telling the govt to 'look the other way' at illegal immigration?

Easy. Cheap Labor is now found in our borders. No need to go to china/s. america when you have people willing to work shitty jobs for peanuts here. Not as cheap as Chun Li, but still cheaper than american citizens.

I'm using illegals as free extras in various scenes. ha! White people cost money.

r

 

[roadwarrior]

This is the way it should be.American workers are expensive. If your good/service requires the type of jobs American workers excel at, then you will pay for them and pass the cost through to your customers. If cheaper labor in another country can do an equal job, you will choose this option and pass the lower cost to your customers. It is the product life cycle: product life cycle

The three things I have found most people can not understand is:

1. Free trade is the only viable market.
2. Loosing manufacturing jobs, and even low end service jobs, is good for the us economy.
3. Greed is good. That is, everyone working in their own best interest will benefit all.

I agree in concept and it applies to educated motivated workers but what do we do with the masses of mid level and lower level workers? How do they achieve the American dream if there are not jobs for them? How does the American economy grow if the majority of the people ar enot working in jobs that allow them to buy a house, pay college tuition for their kids, and save for retirement?

I don't have the answer but it is a problem that needs to be addressed. They can't all flip burgers and they aren't qualified for tech/science/financial services. Many of them could not even work in a call center like they do in India.

S

 

[mrplunkey]

American labor at a premium is a small contributor to the problem. Over-regulation and missing tort reform are the bigger issues.

 

[roadwarrior]

American labor at a premium is a small contributor to the problem. Over-regulation and missing tort reform are the bigger issues.

Premium priced labor only works if the labor is specialized or there is leverage on the job through automation or leading low cost labor so that the product is produced at a price point that is competitive in its market.

MrP... do you include unions in over-regulation or are you only looking at govt? I am very anti-union because I have never seen them do anything to improve productivity so a company can stay competitive. In my limited experience, they only stand in the way of productivity gains with the rules they have which drives mfg and others to move offshore or bust the union. Look at non-union auto mfg vs union. Look at non-union construction vs union. Ever try to get something done in NYC?

Regarding tort reform, do you refer to civil liability for worker and product safety that awards ridiculous claims or is there some other basis?

 

[mrplunkey]

Premium priced labor only works if the labor is specialized or there is leverage on the job through automation or leading low cost labor so that the product is produced at a price point that is competitive in its market.

Thats true, but we probably could retain a modest premium for our labor when shorter supply chains, fewer communications problems and/or better logistics are valued. I don't think American labor has to be penny-for-penny competitive with world markets -- but it does need a lot less overhead lumped on it than the current situation.

MrP... do you include unions in over-regulation or are you only looking at govt? I am very anti-union because I have never seen them do anything to improve productivity so a company can stay competitive. In my limited experience, they only stand in the way of productivity gains with the rules they have which drives mfg and others to move offshore or bust the union. Look at non-union auto mfg vs union. Look at non-union construction vs union. Ever try to get something done in NYC?

Unions are definitely part of our over-regulated environment -- its all balled-up in the DoL/EEOC/NLRB mess. I'm very anti-union. If fixing the price of labor is such a good idea in the first place, we should let businesses do the same thing. Both would be terrible for consumers and the economy.

Regarding tort reform, do you refer to civil liability for worker and product safety that awards ridiculous claims or is there some other basis?

I think equalizing the financial burden on both plaintiff and defendant would be a good start -- loser pays should be the norm. The cost and complexity of our legal system have evolved to such a point that one party can extort the other one simply through the threat of a lawsuit. The courts were never intended to be a systematic way to force individuals into doing cost-versus-benefit analysis of every claim (frivolous or not) that people make.

 

[roadwarrior]

Thats true, but we probably could retain a modest premium for our labor when shorter supply chains, fewer communications problems and/or better logistics are valued. I don't think American labor has to be penny-for-penny competitive with world markets -- but it does need a lot less overhead lumped on it than the current situation.



Unions are definitely part of our over-regulated environment -- its all balled-up in the DoL/EEOC/NLRB mess. I'm very anti-union. If fixing the price of labor is such a good idea in the first place, we should let businesses do the same thing. Both would be terrible for consumers and the economy.



I think equalizing the financial burden on both plaintiff and defendant would be a good start -- loser pays should be the norm. The cost and complexity of our legal system have evolved to such a point that one party can extort the other one simply through the threat of a lawsuit. The courts were never intended to be a systematic way to force individuals into doing cost-versus-benefit analysis of every claim (frivolous or not) that people make.

MrP... I am in agreement with you. When one looks at Cost of Goods Sold one needs to look at all the costs including the supply chain and othe related factors. This happens to be one of the vertical markets that we develop for.

Re: Unions... we are in complete agreement.

Re: Tort... once again... agreement.

Good talking to you.

S