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god bless the britts

Steroid_Virgin

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No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. Just a word of background, for those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror. This is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic. Well written.
*********************************************************
Tony Parsons Daily Mirror September 11, 2002

One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps.

An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.


But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year. There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than Europeans--but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children--not just Americans, but from dozens of countries, were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?

What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn.

And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?

These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

Remember, remember -

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.

Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.

Remember, remember -

And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.

So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex...

So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.

AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?

When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe.

The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.

But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.

I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that.

Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers.

Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.

To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the orange center, Oh Mighty One!

Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.

No, do more than remember; never forget!
 
MortyJackson said:


Thats the problem, liberals dont like the truth

Seriously, I'd like an explanation.... I consider myself pretty much middle of the road when it comes to politics, so I like to hear other points of view, no matter how left or right wing they are. 2Thick makes claims that he is the son of an ex-military man whose murder was politically motivated, and if that's true I certianly understand him not wanting to give details on that, but to say this is a shitty post because the guy is telling the truth is just stupid, so I want to hear why he feels that way. I'm certianly not saying our government was innocent, we all know that's not true, but I'm interested to hear his point of view on how that's a shitty article...
 
It links 9/11 and Iraq, yet Saddam has no connections with Al Quaeda.
It appeals to emotions to cover that.
Therefore it is propaganda. imo.
 

Tony Parsons Daily Mirror September 11, 2002

One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps.




9/11 was NOTHING compares to Pol Pot's genocide WHICH THE US ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. The same could be said about the poor communists, gypsies and political prisoners in the WWII concentration camps.



But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.




That is totally 100% false. The term Anti-Americanism is being mistakenly (albeit purposely) used as a catch all term whenever someone does not agree with US foreign policy. This is purely emotional dribble


There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than Europeans--but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.



More emotional dribble. Plus the LIE that he vomited up stating that Europeans are not as happy as Americans. Although, if you follow the logic of the old saying "ignorance is bliss" then I could understand why Americans could be seen as happier.


And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children--not just Americans, but from dozens of countries, were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray them?



If a small group is responsible then why go after a huge country with no ties to terrorism?


What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn.



More emotional dribble.


And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?



Do innocent Iraqis deserve to be bombed because of their government? If you say that is the collateral damage always found in war, then do not complain about the American collateral damage from their holy war.

The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission.




He calls the US a bully and then takes a poke at open minded people (I mean liberals).



The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

Remember, remember -

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.

Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum.



More emotional dribble

So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass the Kleenex...



I guess that western lives and suffering are worth more than other people's lives and suffering...pass the kleenex



So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe next time they should stick to confetti.



Blame the victim. Good tactic. because you know that their lives is not worth REMEMBERing


How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination?



Iran had a spontaneous sympathy rally for the 9/11 victims where hundreds of thousands showed up. Also the whole world (save a few rouge states) totally denounced the attacks. But who needs the truth anyway...right?

When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.



Some ignorant people were celebrating people's death. What a novel notion. I am sure that no ignorant Americans were cheering as bombs poured down on people in Afghanistan...not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. What do you call Afghanistan? No war there?





I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh.


I call bullshit on that...and so do you.


Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers.



More emotional dribble


Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.



More emotional dribble



Remember, remember, September 11 - One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America.



That is utter and total bullshit.
 
Re: Re: god bless the britts

2Thick said:



9/11 was NOTHING compares to Pol Pot's genocide WHICH THE US ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. [/B]

This is all you really need to read. 2Thick wont be happy hearing anything positive about America. He hates America and will blame America for everything bad that has happened in the world since America's creation. Pathetic.
 
Re: Re: Re: god bless the britts

MortyJackson said:


This is all you really need to read. 2Thick wont be happy hearing anything positive about America. He hates America and will blame America for everything bad that has happened in the world since America's creation. Pathetic.

I fail to see how you can compare Pol Pot and the effect that he had with 911. Yes, 911 was a disaster........nobody is denying that. However, the comparison is ridiculous.

Here is what Pol Pot was responsible for:

Death of 1 million of his OWN countrymen through execution, disease or famine.

Bear in mind that many people on this board would have been targets because he targetted anybody who MIGHT be an intellectual.

I do wonder what you would think about 911 if another country was a target..............
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: god bless the britts

Imnotdutch said:


I fail to see how you can compare Pol Pot and the effect that he had with 911. Yes, 911 was a disaster........nobody is denying that. However, the comparison is ridiculous.

Here is what Pol Pot was responsible for:

Death of 1 million of his OWN countrymen through execution, disease or famine.

Bear in mind that many people on this board would have been targets because he targetted anybody who MIGHT be an intellectual.

I do wonder what you would think about 911 if another country was a target..............

Did you mean to direct this towards me? I wasnt comparing what Pol Pot did with 9/11. What i was pointing out was that 2Thick is blaming America for what Pol Pot did. He is anti-American and he wouldnt be happy to hear anything positive about America.
 
2Thick are you from England? When your country was getting their ass handed to them you wouldn't have said one word like you just did. But then again the only reason you are talking is because of Americans. Tell me something........what happens to your country if Hitler crosses the channel? There would be no 2Thick. We are the only reason the brits are still here.

Personally if I was president I would start a "fuck you policy." You don't want us to go to war with Iraq. Fuck you watch us bomb. I am not president but if I ever had AIDS or some serious life threatening disease I would take me a plane, strap a fucking bomb to my chest and blow the hardasses up that dance in the street when something tragic happens like that to America. Maybe America should start sending suicide bombers. Big difference asshole between bombing a weeding accidentally and me stealing a plane and killing innocent men and women. You can't see that though cause you are blinded by you freedom. If you are an American your a fucking disgrace. Holy war, I will show you a fucking Holy war. I would nuke Iraq, N. Korea, and Saudi Arabia. I would strategically place mini nukes and kill all of them. Am I killer?

Its either me or them and its going to be them.


Just imagine if I was in office.


Oh yeah and while I am on it.......I hope france gets invaded by the Germans again. That way we can let the pussies kill each other and not have to worry about rescuing their ass one more time.
 
What is wrong with England?

Oh and do you live in Hollywood? You dont want to believe everything you see in the movies...........

Golfer18 said:
2Thick are you from England? When your country was getting their ass handed to them you wouldn't have said one word like you just did. But then again the only reason you are talking is because of Americans. Tell me something........what happens to your country if Hitler crosses the channel? There would be no 2Thick. We are the only reason the brits are still here.

 
Re: Re: god bless the britts



9/11 was NOTHING compares to Pol Pot's genocide WHICH THE US ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. The same could be said about the poor communists, gypsies and political prisoners in the WWII concentration camps.


Yes we "allowed it to happen". This from a guy who is so quick to condemn American forways into other countries, and now is condeming "allowing it to happen". So we "allowed Pol Pot" and now are trying to stop another dictator who has murdered his own people, and both are wrong. Which is it?



That is totally 100% false. The term Anti-Americanism is being mistakenly (albeit purposely) used as a catch all term whenever someone does not agree with US foreign policy. This is purely emotional dribble

I halfheartedly agree. However, a rise in displeasure with American foriegn policy also leads to a rise in anti-American behavior; that can't be denied either.



More emotional dribble. Plus the LIE that he vomited up stating that Europeans are not as happy as Americans. Although, if you follow the logic of the old saying "ignorance is bliss" then I could understand why Americans could be seen as happier.

More halfhearted agreement. Germany has Europe's biggest economy and it is a trainwreck. France, Germany and Russia are being marginalized by American might at the international negotiating table. call these unahppiness, discontent, whatever, these feelings are not imagined.


If a small group is responsible then why go after a huge country with no ties to terrorism?


Well, Iraq does have ties to terrorism, just no proven ties to al-Qaeda. If Hussein is paying families of suicide bombers, then the Iraqi links to terrorism are not in dispute.



Do innocent Iraqis deserve to be bombed because of their government? If you say that is the collateral damage always found in war, then do not complain about the American collateral damage from their holy war.


Iraqi people have lived under a dictator who has oppressed and outright murdered them for a long time. At some point, they need to take action to do something, or accept a life that is nasty, brutish, and short. Many will certainly die in a US invasion, but many will enjoy things afterward that they would have never otherwise experienced.

Many innocents were killed in Afghanistan too. But survivors enjoy an increased quality of life.

There is no benefit to sustaining or allwoing continued dictatorships. America is a young country but it is the world's oldest continuous democracy.




Blame the victim. Good tactic. because you know that their lives is not worth REMEMBERing


The monument to those killed in Afghanstian is the improved quality of life of the majority of Afghanis after the destruction of the Taliban.


Iran had a spontaneous sympathy rally for the 9/11 victims where hundreds of thousands showed up. Also the whole world (save a few rouge states) totally denounced the attacks. But who needs the truth anyway...right?

Many of Iran's leading clerics met very soon after the attakcs and announced that the atacks were the work of the Japanese , rather than syaying it was Islam-driven terrorism. Give us the whole truth.



Some ignorant people were celebrating people's death. What a novel notion. I am sure that no ignorant Americans were cheering as bombs poured down on people in Afghanistan...not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. What do you call Afghanistan? No war there?

The comparison of 9/11 and WW2 is misguided. I trust that you accept this and are just reaching for a point to make.
 
2Thick said:
Matt I will get to you, my little fascist friend.

But for now, I must go watch "Old School.":):)

Please do. I have friends involved with the movie. support them.
 
Imnotdutch said:
What is wrong with England?

Oh and do you live in Hollywood? You dont want to believe everything you see in the movies...........


hahahaha. YEah, England was on the verge of victory without America. We just slowed their triumph down. You are laughable. "Dont believe everything you see in hollywood". Ok, how bout the fact that we were sending you supplies out the ying yang. How bout the fact that you people were spending your cozy nights in the subway as your cities were carpet bombed? So tell me, who is biased.... Americans for KNOWING we saved your asses in WW2, or you ( a brit) Claiming you had it all under control?

Now dont get me wrong. I value the british very much as allies and people. They are and i think will be our closest allies forever. We are practically family. But you are being a bit rediculous when you say that us stepping in didnt save your ass is kinda funny.
 
Your point was surely that we couldn't have won without you. That is bullshit.........things were turning our way and all of a sudden good old america wants to play too. Talk about opportunists...........

Yes the war ended sooner with you on board (I'm sure everybody is grateful for that) but you talk like the victory was totally down to you. I object to that........as would all of the relatives of allies that died.

As for supplying us with shit.........you supplied the 911 bombers with flight training. So do you take credit for that bombing too? Isn't that what the USA does........supplies arms to everybody and then claims to be instrumental in their victories.........and conveniently forgets when a nation suddenly turns against the USA.

I suppose that you think that the USA is the best nation on earth too huh........without having lived in a significant number of other countries.



JohnyJuice said:


hahahaha. YEah, England was on the verge of victory without America. We just slowed their triumph down. You are laughable. "Dont believe everything you see in hollywood". Ok, how bout the fact that we were sending you supplies out the ying yang. How bout the fact that you people were spending your cozy nights in the subway as your cities were carpet bombed? So tell me, who is biased.... Americans for KNOWING we saved your asses in WW2, or you ( a brit) Claiming you had it all under control?

Now dont get me wrong. I value the british very much as allies and people. They are and i think will be our closest allies forever. We are practically family. But you are being a bit rediculous when you say that us stepping in didnt save your ass is kinda funny.
 
Re: Re: god bless the britts

2Thick said:
If a small group is responsible then why go after a huge country with no ties to terrorism?

No ties to terrorism? Yeah... what-the-fuck-ever. The Czech secret police, while conducting surveillance of an Iraqi diplomat, observed him meet with Mohamad Atta in 2000 in the Czech Republic. The math is pretty simple 2-Thick.
 
Steroid_Virgin said:
No matter what your views on President Bush's statement of upcoming war, this, from an English journalist, is very interesting. Just a word of background, for those of you who aren't familiar with the UK's Daily Mirror. This is a notoriously left-wing daily that is normally not supportive of the Colonials across the Atlantic. Well written.
*********************************************************

You forgot to mention that the Daily Mirror is a tabloid notorious for its trashy journalism.
 
Re: Re: Re: god bless the britts

SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY said:


No ties to terrorism? Yeah... what-the-fuck-ever. The Czech secret police, while conducting surveillance of an Iraqi diplomat, observed him meet with Mohamad Atta in 2000 in the Czech Republic. The math is pretty simple 2-Thick.

Well actually it was the Americans who claimed this. The Czech police exposed this tie to Iraq as being false and dismissed it. Get your facts straight.

This is an example of what is known as disinformation. The media publicises something which is later found out to be false. Usually the retracteion only recieves a fraction of the publicity the the disinformation receives, so the false publicity favours those who pedal it.

Basically Iraq's ties to terrorism have only been when it has supressed it. Far from promoting terrorism, Saddam is a secularist who has no tolerance for religious fanatics of the type that attacked on 9/11. Iraq has been a leader in the middle east in suppressing that type of terrorism.

Those are the facts.
 
Golfer18 said:
2Thick are you from England? When your country was getting their ass handed to them you wouldn't have said one word like you just did. But then again the only reason you are talking is because of Americans. Tell me something........what happens to your country if Hitler crosses the channel? There would be no 2Thick. We are the only reason the brits are still here.


Its either me or them and its going to be them.


Just imagine if I was in office.


Oh yeah and while I am on it.......I hope france gets invaded by the Germans again. That way we can let the pussies kill each other and not have to worry about rescuing their ass one more time.

Well actually the British had well and truely destroyed any chance of German invasion before the US joined the war. It was the Russians who were responsible for defeating Germany. The contribution of the Western powers was largely a sideshow to the main war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Westerners owe an historical debt to Communists for this.

And since we are dredging up history, from my lessons I seem to remember the French bailing out your asses during the war of independence against the British.
 
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HansNZ said:


Well actually the British had well and truely destroyed any chance of German invasion before the US joined the war. It was the Russians who were responsible for defeating Germany, not the Western powers.

You America haters can say that all you like but it still doesnt make it true.
 
HansNZ said:


I don't "hate" America. I just know my history.

Is that what you have convinced yourself to believe? Well you are obviously wrong. I dont expect you to realize though.

Shouldnt you be at democraticunderground or some other place? I thought they ran you off from here.
 
HansNZ said:


Well actually the British had well and truely destroyed any chance of German invasion before the US joined the war. It was the Russians who were responsible for defeating Germany. The contribution of the Western powers was largely a sideshow to the main war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Westerners owe an historical debt to Communists for this.

OMG somebody who actually knows some history..........whatever next :)

Morty stop being a dick and go spend some time doing some reading.
 
Imnotdutch said:


OMG somebody who actually knows some history..........whatever next :)

Morty stop being a dick and go spend some time doing some reading.

Thats funny since you make it as if you have done any reading yourself. You are just anti-American and you will always take the opposite side of America.
 
MortyJackson said:


Is that what you have convinced yourself to believe? Well you are obviously wrong. I dont expect you to realize though.

Shouldnt you be at democraticunderground or some other place? I thought they ran you off from here.

The democraticunderground what? I think you have me confused with someone else.

You need to go and read up on some history - preferably not from some bullshit American propaganda book either. The Russians will look at the 28 million of their citizens killed defeating Germany in WW2 and be VERY surprised to hear Americans claim that it was the USA that defeated the Nazis! Haven't you even heard of Stalingrad???
 
MortyJackson said:


Thats funny since you make it as if you have done any reading yourself. You are just anti-American and you will always take the opposite side of America.

It is hilarious the way that anyone who doesn't constantly say that the USA is the "best" or " the greatest, blah, blah, blah" is branded as anti-american.

It reminds me of how people in the USA criticise the UN. The UN usually lets the US have its way 9O% of the time. On the 10% of the occasions that the US doesn't get what it wants, the UN is branded as "anti-american".

This behaviour reminds me of a petulant child who sulks and cries about how unfair its life is whenever it doesn't always get what it wants.
 
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MortyJackson said:


Thats funny since you make it as if you have done any reading yourself. You are just anti-American and you will always take the opposite side of America.

Thats what you call anybody that disagrees with you!!!! You are a dumbass. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I disagree with the whole country.
 
Imnotdutch said:


Thats what you call anybody that disagrees with you!!!! You are a dumbass. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I disagree with the whole country.

thats what i call someone that ALWAYS takes the side against America.
 
MortyJackson said:


thats what i call someone that ALWAYS takes the side against America.

So when 911 happened I musta come on here and told everybody how great it was right? Uh wrong. First thing I did was email friends in the USA to check they were ok. Then I posted stuff on here in support of the USA.

I suspect you think me anti-USA because I think this war is just wrong. Why are you so eager to go after Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia? Unfortunately, 70% of the people living in the country of your strongest all (the UK) doesn't agree with this war. Imagine that..........shit the whole world must be anti-USA. If thats the case you must be doing something seriously wrong.

Post examples of threads where I have been anti-USa on A VARIETY OF TOPICS. 10 topics spanning 6 months should do it seeing as I am so blatantly anti-USA.

I reckon it is how NZ put it..........you just cant handle people disagreeing with you.
 
Imnotdutch said:


So when 911 happened I musta come on here and told everybody how great it was right? Uh wrong. First thing I did was email friends in the USA to check they were ok. Then I posted stuff on here in support of the USA.

Wow such a great guy how could i have ever considered you anti-American.
 
MortyJackson said:


Wow such a great guy how could i have ever considered you anti-American.

Still waiting for you to back up your statements dumbass...........

Reckon I'm in for a long wait. Pussies like you rarely manage to back up wha tthey say.
 
HansNZ said:


Well actually the British had well and truely destroyed any chance of German invasion before the US joined the war. It was the Russians who were responsible for defeating Germany. The contribution of the Western powers was largely a sideshow to the main war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Westerners owe an historical debt to Communists for this.

And since we are dredging up history, from my lessons I seem to remember the French bailing out your asses during the war of independence against the British.


Ummm...yes and no.

The Russian advances on Berlin were sped by American involvement. Discounting the American involvement is misguided.

As faras "bailing out" the American colonies, the separation from England was an economically driven effort that was inevitable. France's involvement was tertiary to the process.
 
Imnotdutch said:


Still waiting for you to back up your statements dumbass...........

Reckon I'm in for a long wait. Pussies like you rarely manage to back up wha tthey say.

You are a pathetic moron. Why should i go searching and finding threads for you? I have seen your posts and i have deemed you anti-American because you always take a side against America. I dont need to go searching just because it would make you happy. You are the pussy and you should thank America every day of your life for saving your pansy ass.
 
HansNZ said:


It reminds me of how people in the USA criticise the UN. The UN usually lets the US have its way 9O% of the time. On the 10% of the occasions that the US doesn't get what it wants, the UN is branded as "anti-american".

This behaviour reminds me of a petulant child who sulks and cries about how unfair its life is whenever it doesn't always get what it wants.

Well, given the US's contribution to the UN (as well as other international agencies) as far as dollars and troops, there is somewhat of a rationale for the US dominating the agenda.

Likeiwse, American economic status in the world dictates pre-eminence in internationalpolicieis,.

better to deal with a whining child, which figuratively compalins when it does not get its way, than a bully that takes whatever it pleases.


No other nation is on par with America economically or militarily. The phrase "single superpower" is appropriate.

Others can point out their higher rates of health insurance, or better finishing on various UN "freedom" polls, but those countries are internationally irrelevant.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:

Others can point out their higher rates of health insurance, or better finishing on various UN "freedom" polls, but those countries are internationally irrelevant.

Right now, these internationally irrelevant countries seem to cause the US a little diplomatic headache.
 
Norman Bates said:


Right now, these internationally irrelevant countries seem to cause the US a little diplomatic headache.

yes they are, and to the US's credit, they are trying to work out a deal whereby these countries are agreed to the invasion.

The US could have unilaterally invaded some time ago, but by its actions, is trying to actually increase the credibility of the uN.
 
Oh you mean you can't back up your accusations? Thats all you had to say.......CAN'T!!!!!

Now go running back to mommy and cry to her about how you lost an argument and want her to tell my mom..........

BTW funny how people resort to name calling when they cant substantiate their arguments huh.............I always found that kinda interesting.

MortyJackson said:


You are a pathetic moron. Why should i go searching and finding threads for you? I have seen your posts and i have deemed you anti-American because you always take a side against America. I dont need to go searching just because it would make you happy. You are the pussy and you should thank America every day of your life for saving your pansy ass.
 
Imnotdutch said:
Oh you mean you can't back up your accusations? Thats all you had to say.......CAN'T!!!!!

Now go running back to mommy and cry to her about how you lost an argument and want her to tell my mom..........

BTW funny how people resort to name calling when they cant substantiate their arguments huh.............I always found that kinda interesting.


Like i said i dont feel the need to do a research project just because you say to. I feel justified in calling you anti-American because of what i know i have seen you write.

BTW Namecalling like you calling me a pussy? Its ok for you to start namecalling but you cant handle it when it comes back to you? Typical liberal attitude.
 
You mean you still CANT back your big mouth up?????????

If you have seen me write anti-american things over an extended period it should take two minutes to find extensive examples.

Now here is my case for you being anti-american........
The UK is your strongest ally. However, you seem hellbent on alienating me as a UK citizen. You are alienating your strongest ally thereby hurting the cause of the good old USA. Therefore YOU ARE ANTI-AMERICAN. lmao.

Maybe you call everybody else anti-american out of guilt........no need to feel guilty. Just admit it.........you are anti-american.


MortyJackson said:


Like i said i dont feel the need to do a research project just because you say to. I feel justified in calling you anti-American because of what i know i have seen you write.

BTW Namecalling like you calling me a pussy? Its ok for you to start namecalling but you cant handle it when it comes back to you? Typical liberal attitude.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:



Ummm...yes and no.

The Russian advances on Berlin were sped by American involvement. Discounting the American involvement is misguided.

Anglo-american involvement most certainly sped up the end of the war. However, German defeat at the hands of the Russians was inevitable at some point.

The Anglo-Polish endeavour to read Germany's enigma codes probably did more than everything else the Western allies did put together to shorten the war.

As faras "bailing out" the American colonies, the separation from England was an economically driven effort that was inevitable. France's involvement was tertiary to the process. [/B]


Of course it is inevitable that a society of people who are determined to be free will eventually succeed. Look at Vietnam for example. If history is a correct gauge even a Nazi victory would have seen the countries they conquered free themselves eventually - even if it took a couple of generations. This is what happened in central Europe after 40 years of Soviet domination.

My point was this: Sure the French owe an historical debt partially to the US. But the US too has been a recipient of such benefits. The assistance the French offered during the revolutionary wars was not insignificant.

Americans tend to have selective amnesia - constantly going on about who they've benefited without acknowledging the opposite. As just one example, Americans will often brag about how much East Asia's economic miracle is a result of these states being able to export to the USA. But Britain also played this role in the 19th century. The USA's development was largely fuelled by exporting raw materials to supply Britain's industries. British banks funded the industrialisation of the north.

The USA too has been given a hand-up in the world on more than one occasion. The US has not always been top-dog and the benefits have not all flowed one-way.
 
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MattTheSkywalker said:


Well, given the US's contribution to the UN (as well as other international agencies) as far as dollars and troops, there is somewhat of a rationale for the US dominating the agenda.

Likeiwse, American economic status in the world dictates pre-eminence in internationalpolicieis,.

More money flows into New York's economy from the UN than the US contributes in levies - and that is assuming the US actually pays up.

In any case, I don't think the US providing a quarter of the UN's funding entitles it to special treatment in international law. This is like saying that because I pay more tax that I deserve to be given preferential treatment over other people who pay less tax.

When I say that the UN does the US's bidding this is usually indirectly because the US uses its power and influence over smaller countries in order to see its agenda through.

better to deal with a whining child, which figuratively compalins when it does not get its way, than a bully that takes whatever it pleases.[/B]


The US is a bully that stays within international law as much as possible. When international law gets in the way of US policies it is swept aside.


No other nation is on par with America economically or militarily. The phrase "single superpower" is appropriate.[/B]


This is true. But just because I might be the biggest guy at my gym doesn't mean it is right for me to a thug just because I can get away with it. I don't agree with any "might is right" type of ideology.

Others can point out their higher rates of health insurance, or better finishing on various UN "freedom" polls, but those countries are internationally irrelevant. [/B]


The US is without doubt the most powerful country in the world these days, but I wouldn't be so arrogant to go as far as saying that other countries are "irrelevant".
 
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