Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below i know im probably being too cautious, but i was just wondering what people know about GM's and long term back health. Is the stress purely on the muscles of the lower back or is there stress on the spine too? would it be safer to do them seated? i dont want to battle with another back injury. thanks for any input. peace
GM's and back health
- Thread starter pgsam
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majutsu
Well-known member
Actually, GMs work the whole posterior chain: hammies, hips, low back, and you can even feel your calves pulling. They are no more dangerous for your back than squatting. They are less dangerous and more repeatable than deadlifts, and this is the major reason for their prominence in the original versions of westside: the early days tried to avoid deadlifting. Louie came up with most of the program while suffering bad lumbar injuries. GMs were to protect his back more than deadlifts (and box squats were to avoid louie's troublesome patellar tendon). So the workout is actually designed to lift heavy while minimizing the risk of injury.
The one problem is that the deadlift did suffer. So newer westside has heavy, frequent deadlifting, and the low-back injuries are creeping back in . . .
Suspended good mornings are great training, effective and safe. Enjoy.
The seated good mornings actually take hammies etc out and focus on the lower back. Seated GMs are good, but use sparingly. It's a low back splitter if done to excess.
It's your decision on how much to deadlift. I follow older westside, so the closest I get to deadlifting is rack pulls, or even better, close stance low box squats. I am about 40, so to me, longevity and integrity are worth more than 20-30lbs. As I see it, my maxes will be zero if I am injured.
I also follow old westside on bench, for my shoulders etc. If I did full metal militia training, with heavy shirted benching, board work, and lots of raw benching, I'll tear my rotator cuff again, which was just healed in summer 2003. So I stick to board presses, floor presses, and rack lockouts mostly, and I wear a loose shirt for my "raw" work. Again, I could have 10-20 lbs more on a max with a full-on militia approach, but it may well be my last max of the year.
I'm willing to take the slow road to strength. Live long enough, and you will realize integrity and health are priceless. I have been stronger or weaker at dozens of times in my life. And my numbers now may not be the most impressive of my life, but I still lift. To me, real strength is not a max, but that despite one injury or life-twist after another, I recoup and I lift. Despite yet another tragedy or reversal of fortune in life, I brush the dust off my clothes, stand up and carry on. No matter who or what I lose, I move on. This is real strength of body, mind and character. I will never have my youth back, but I am a survivor, made of iron. This is the strength that comes with age.
Lift for longevity. It's the right choice.
The one problem is that the deadlift did suffer. So newer westside has heavy, frequent deadlifting, and the low-back injuries are creeping back in . . .
Suspended good mornings are great training, effective and safe. Enjoy.
The seated good mornings actually take hammies etc out and focus on the lower back. Seated GMs are good, but use sparingly. It's a low back splitter if done to excess.
It's your decision on how much to deadlift. I follow older westside, so the closest I get to deadlifting is rack pulls, or even better, close stance low box squats. I am about 40, so to me, longevity and integrity are worth more than 20-30lbs. As I see it, my maxes will be zero if I am injured.
I also follow old westside on bench, for my shoulders etc. If I did full metal militia training, with heavy shirted benching, board work, and lots of raw benching, I'll tear my rotator cuff again, which was just healed in summer 2003. So I stick to board presses, floor presses, and rack lockouts mostly, and I wear a loose shirt for my "raw" work. Again, I could have 10-20 lbs more on a max with a full-on militia approach, but it may well be my last max of the year.
I'm willing to take the slow road to strength. Live long enough, and you will realize integrity and health are priceless. I have been stronger or weaker at dozens of times in my life. And my numbers now may not be the most impressive of my life, but I still lift. To me, real strength is not a max, but that despite one injury or life-twist after another, I recoup and I lift. Despite yet another tragedy or reversal of fortune in life, I brush the dust off my clothes, stand up and carry on. No matter who or what I lose, I move on. This is real strength of body, mind and character. I will never have my youth back, but I am a survivor, made of iron. This is the strength that comes with age.
Lift for longevity. It's the right choice.
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wow, thanks for the great response. it is hard not to get stuck in the now and go hard all the time. im still young and dont want to fuck up the rest of my lifting years because some stupid decision i make now. i just added GM's as an accesory but im finding them almost as taxing as DL's. thanks again
I'd also agree with m ajustu's excellent post. I've read many long articles by better lifters than myself on this issue and I'd have to say that, like any other exercise, if your form is correct,chances are slight your going to hurt yourself. Injuries, including long-term ones, are usually caused by people not knowing or not paying attention to what they're doing.
blut wump
New member
I think injuries generally happen despite all best intents to concentrate on form. One day you're concentrating on getting that one extra rep and bang: something goes. You're so occupied with straining that you simply don't notice a lapse in form and gravity grabs the opportunity to take its revenge for all the battles it's lost with you.
Consequently, if injuries are a concern, you have to try to ensure that you can't screw up your form without a lot of carelessness rather than just relying on yourself always to be aware. Thus box squats to protect your knees etc. You can still damage them but it becomes unlikely. As always, we all walk a fine line between ego, safety and maximizing gains.
Consequently, if injuries are a concern, you have to try to ensure that you can't screw up your form without a lot of carelessness rather than just relying on yourself always to be aware. Thus box squats to protect your knees etc. You can still damage them but it becomes unlikely. As always, we all walk a fine line between ego, safety and maximizing gains.
wnt2bBeast
New member
if done wrong they can be dangerous..
you can also bend down to pick up a 45lb plate and throw your back out as well..
make sure you have your form down perfect beofre trying to pile on the weight..
I generally go to a 3RM with Arched GM's..concentric GM's i will work up to a 1RM
you can also bend down to pick up a 45lb plate and throw your back out as well..
make sure you have your form down perfect beofre trying to pile on the weight..
I generally go to a 3RM with Arched GM's..concentric GM's i will work up to a 1RM
I don't disagree with what I posted, but I think you've made a good point.Blut Wump said:
C
curgeo
Guest
When I was a bodybuilder (I wish it were longer ago than it is) I used to always hurt my lower back. It was weak and I thought it was strong. This last year I have GM'ed what I used to squat and have not had one back problem due to making it and my abs stronger. Keep good form, but hit the lower back hard.
riverrock
New member
I do a slight variation in technique (but same result) in my GM's. I step into the Power-Rack. I put the safety bars below my hip height. Then I do my GM and rest the bar on the safety-bars. I pause for a sec and then explode up. You'll never accidentally cheat by not going forward enough and its safe in case you can't get that last extra rep out either. Try it guys, you'll be glad you did.
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