Gaining Strength, but not size on DF 5x5

[EricTheViking]

Hey everyone. Just finished my first run through dual factor 5x5 today. I made some monster increases in strength, especially on Ass 2 Grass squats. The first week I did a 1x5 of 205, and today on my last week of intensity I did 3 reps at 255. Hard to argue with numbers like that, especially coming from a BB'ing background where I never made strides like this...

I'm 5'10" 167, age 35 and have ramped up gradually to around 4,000 calories over the last 10 weeks. Mostly cleaner foods. The occasional cheat. I gained about 8 lbs in the 10 weeks, but the only place I'm seeing size increases is around my waist.

I kind of want to run it again, because of the great strength gains I had, but on the other hand, I'm kinda feeling like "Where the mass?" Will I see mass gains if I run it again and put up bigger numbers or should I try something like the DFHT if I want mass?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[RipStone]

I dont like to link to other sites, but this link will answer your question exactly...

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5028

 

[Cynical Simian]

This is a link to madcow's 5x5 webpage, which has some stuff that hasn't yet been added to the 5x5 main thread here. Angelface's training theory article should answer this question, along with quite a few others you might have.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm

 

[Protobuilder]

I'm really interested in this question as well. Ripstone's link provided some good info. and identified 3 reasons why you might get stronger but not bigger on the 5x5: 1) initially, you're making neural adaptations, 2) you've got to move the heavier weights for longer than the 3-4 weeks you're doing max weights on the 5x5 (last week of loading phase + 2-3 weeks of the intensity phase); and 3) muscle gain isn't always linear, even though strength gains may be.

Anybody else got anything to add here? I'd really like to know if others experienced this and/or eventually saw size gains, etc.

 

[Madcow2]

All you can do is increase capacity in big lifts and supply your body with caloric excess. This is the only thing you can really work toward or control as far as putting on muscle. Eventually any problem should iron itself out over the mid-long term. Maybe it's just a fluke, maybe you'll notice a ton of progress all at once if you do something different for a bit. Regardless, there are genetic and other variables that just can't be controlled. Suffice to say, caloric excess + increasing big lifts is the best and most predictable way to add muscle. This is the basis of any good program. That said I wish I could tell you something different. Maybe try HST and work in some high reps for a while (if you want another good cookie cutter). Maybe give this another run through since it obviously made you strong and you liked it.

Kind of an seems a big anomaly since this is the first case I've ever heard of someone getting very strong (so program in line) and adding a lot more fat than muscle. I'd suggest also getting some bodyfat testing done to give you a better objective and quantitative guage of these things. Some people aren't objective when evaluating their own progress and might see a lot of fat where really the increase is only marginal and significant muscle was added.

Wish I could tell you that you did XYZ wrong and this will fix it but if the controllable basis is solid and strength increase quantifiable, you are left with either fluke or measurement error in results and the only thing you can do is change procedures to be as objective in that area too so that you can better get your hands around whether this is a fluke or an indicator of something else.

 

[cubuff27]

Strength will eventually lead to size....it has to or we would have 170 guys out there benching 500 pounds and squating 700. It just doesn't happen that way, your body has to adapt to the strength with added size. I agree with MadCow, being your own evaluator of your own size difference is pretty much worthless. Pictures and the scale are the only sure way to do it. I for example have put on about 40 pounds over the last 2 years and I couldn't tell you I honestly look that different when I look at myself. But when I see someone that I haven't seen in a couple years, they don't even recognize me. So just keep on the 5x5 and take some before and after pictures and compare them yourself.

 

[EricTheViking]

Thanks for all the great input and links.

I am definitely running the 5x5 program again.
Gonna take a week off first and then hit it hard.

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks for all the great input and links.

I am definitely running the 5x5 program again.
Gonna take a week off first and then hit it hard.

I'd really suggest some pics and bodyfat measurment before and during the program even if they are home calipers.

Also, there's nothing to say you can't try something else in a different rep range for a period and then come back to it. After two runs though you might find this a really good idea so once you get everything layed out and started maybe check out HST and see how they layout their program. Keep the compound lifts obviously, and also you will want to specifically look at the number of sets as the reps decrease - don't keep it 1 set all the way down. If you can run through the periodized 5x5 successfully, you will likely need more workload.