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Foundation of Morality

Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
 
If tommorrow we all found out with definite impunity that there is no judgement, that we can do what the fuck whenever we want............I will not change. I have my own morals.............others can have theirs. As long as my actions do not impede on someone else's ability to fullfill their own lives in the way "they" see fit............I'm good. "And that it hurt no one, do what you must"


this is the only commandment you ever need.

cindylou said:
Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
Click to expand...
 
This reminds me of one of the classes back in the day. Was called "current moral and social issues"... was taught by a left-over from the 60's... I am CERTAIN that the dude musta done a WHOLELOTTA hallucinogenics back in the day... but he raised some interesting points.

"We all know that using babies for target practise is disgusting but does that make it immoral?"

"We all know that skimming and ingesting pond scum is disgusting but does that make it immoral?"

LOL I can't remember how those two thoughts were tied together, but for some reason I can't forget they were!
 
cindylou said:
Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
Click to expand...
Stalin attended seminary and Hitler was raised Catholic.
 
cindylou said:
Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
Click to expand...
In the article he uses Russia as an example of "Godless Commies" that failed.

Last time I checked Russia still exist.

China in fact is thriving. Does God want a bunch of Godless Commie factory works on his planet that are being paid shit and treated like shit daily?

Does God want me to continue to make money off of these poor bastards based on the stock market trades?

About 6 years ago we adopted crack babies. I wonder why God wanted these two souls born this way?

God must love crack babies and crack.

I know I love the Ganja but does God? He made it. He must
 
One problem I had with religion and morality was the idea that all one had to do was accept Jesus as the son of God and your savior. You would then get eternal plat status. One could kidnap, torture and murder children their entire life and as long as they accepted Jesus they would chill in paradise for eternity.
 
We need to be more nationalistic, with our country's integrity acting as the sole religion. Sure, you can have faith and believe in a higher power on a personal level, but keep it there.
 
javaguru said:
One problem I had with religion and morality was the idea that all one had to do was accept Jesus as the son of God and your savior. You would then get eternal plat status. One could kidnap, torture and murder children their entire life and as long as they accepted Jesus they would chill in paradise for eternity.
Click to expand...
I thought that strange myself.
 
superdave said:
I thought that strange myself.
Click to expand...

I know right? You can be the biggest vilest piece of shit but accept Jesus on your deathbed and you get to go to heaven? Good thing that others can pray for your sins and take them away so you can get into heaven eventually. :rolleyes: Catholics are an odd bunch...

If more people focused on how their lives affected people in the here and now and what lasting affect they would have once they were gone, and worried less about the afterlife something tells me that the world would be a better place...

But WTF do I know?
 
BIKINIMOM said:
I know right? You can be the biggest vilest piece of shit but accept Jesus on your deathbed and you get to go to heaven? Good thing that others can pray for your sins and take them away so you can get into heaven eventually. :rolleyes: Catholics are an odd bunch...

If more people focused on how their lives affected people in the here and now and what lasting affect they would have once they were gone, and worried less about the afterlife something tells me that the world would be a better place...

But WTF do I know?
Click to expand...
But I wonder if living your life for shit then accepting Christ at the end only applies to people who dont actually KNOW that you can live your life for shit and get into heaven at the end by simply accepting Christ as your savior? Like how we are discussing it right now on this board shows that we can "work the system" of God/Christ and get into heaven anyhow, but does accepting Christ as your savior after leading a life full of sin only apply to people who are genuinely living their life full of sin and not to people like us who might add some extra sin knowing that the "system" works by just accepting Christ at the end of it all and we get into heaven?
God needs an exception clause for folks like us who can work the system
 
superdave said:
God needs an exception clause for folks like us who can work the system
Click to expand...

LMFAO sounds like you be percept-ing some advasive comments, n shit...

Yea, methinks you are correct.... exception clause for folks who can work the system....

I literally busted out laughing when I read that.
 
superdave said:
what does that mean lol
Click to expand...

Some other homey thought he would impress the boards with his mental wit and MADE UP WORDS to try and make ME look stoopid. :lmao:

So it has sorta become a little personal joke between me and my nugga. Thought I would begin to spread the love. :heart:
 
superdave said:
But I wonder if living your life for shit then accepting Christ at the end only applies to people who dont actually KNOW that you can live your life for shit and get into heaven at the end by simply accepting Christ as your savior? Like how we are discussing it right now on this board shows that we can "work the system" of God/Christ and get into heaven anyhow, but does accepting Christ as your savior after leading a life full of sin only apply to people who are genuinely living their life full of sin and not to people like us who might add some extra sin knowing that the "system" works by just accepting Christ at the end of it all and we get into heaven?
God needs an exception clause for folks like us who can work the system
Click to expand...
You would have thought an omniscient creator deity would have seen the loophole. :confused:
 
If you sin then he puts you on his Naughty list and you don't get presents.


Oh wait. That is Santa. I get them mixed up all the time.
 
Stefka said:
At its most basic level, isn't morality just empathy?
A fear of judgment is not a precursor to empathy.
Click to expand...


yea yea we get it. Your deep. :rolleyes:
 
Stefka said:
At its most basic level, isn't morality just empathy?
A fear of judgment is not a precursor to empathy.
Click to expand...
They mentioned a study where monkey's would starve themselves rather than watch another monkey they were familiar with get electrical shocks. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a puddlemonkey, he would have eaten just to watch the other monkey get shocked and laugh.
 
javaguru said:
One problem I had with religion and morality was the idea that all one had to do was accept Jesus as the son of God and your savior. You would then get eternal plat status. One could kidnap, torture and murder children their entire life and as long as they accepted Jesus they would chill in paradise for eternity.
Click to expand...

That's just a remnant left over from the Dark Ages when indulgences were peddled to the highest bidder.



I'm a simple woman, I believe a "foundation of Morality' need only be predicated on a couple of maxims: Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. AND. Your rights end where my nose begins.
 
LuluDeren said:
That's just a remnant left over from the Dark Ages when indulgences were peddled to the highest bidder.



I'm a simple woman, I believe a "foundation of Morality' need only be predicated on a couple of maxims: Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. AND. Your rights end where my nose begins.
Click to expand...
I was raised protestant so I'm not overly familiar with the theological basis for the indulgence. Baptist's focused on the crucifixion of Christ and his forgiving the sins of the criminal hanging next to him as the theological basis, no matter what an individual had done during life one only had to accept Jesus to get eternal plat status. Since there was no intermediary between said sinner and God then no form of financial compensation could be required.
 
cindylou said:
Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
Click to expand...
Hang on a second, where do you get off assuming that a person doesn't believe in a divine creator if they DON't believe in personal accountability to to this creative force?

If you look at people that believe in reincarnation they generally believe in a nonjudgemental divine creative force. People who believe in reincarnation believe you are accountable to your higher self and those whom you are owed or incur karma to.

Just because a person isn't a christian (and doesn't believe in some nosy, intrusive supreme being that's writing down in some universal book every time you touch yourself) does not make them atheists.

And while we're at it, what keeps atheists from turning into mass murderers?

I bet WELL more than 50% of the American prison population would have considered themselves good Christians BEFORE they committed their crimes.
 
musclemom said:
Hang on a second, where do you get off assuming that a person doesn't believe in a divine creator if they DON't believe in personal accountability to to this creative force?

If you look at people that believe in reincarnation they generally believe in a nonjudgemental divine creative force. People who believe in reincarnation believe you are accountable to your higher self and those whom you are owed or incur karma to.

Just because a person isn't a christian (and doesn't believe in some nosy, intrusive supreme being that's writing down in some universal book every time you touch yourself) does not make them atheists.

And while we're at it, what keeps atheists from turning into mass murderers?

I bet WELL more than 50% of the American prison population would have considered themselves good Christians BEFORE they committed their crimes.
Click to expand...

I think a person's heart is what keeps them from turning into mass murders. :)

By the way - I'm not assuming that a person doesn't believe in a divine creator if they don't believe in personal accountability to this creator. Even if we are the judge of our own selves - there still (I believe) a standard held by our creator - that is the ultimate standard.

I believe in a divine creator. Accountable to him? I dont know. I believe so. Am I right? Who knows? Is this creator the standard of all moral behavior - and of what is right and good? This is what I can wrap my head around.

I'm just typing shit out here as it comes out. I may or may not still agree tomorrow or next year. We all have our own path on this side of the grave.
 
this is why I'm still agnostic.........not atheist. I refuse to beleive in a world without judgement. Kind of like the multi layers of hell. I honestly beleive that 99% of the world will spend "some" time in "some kind of hell" because we're all tainted by this world, none of us our pure enough to go before the divine therefor some time in the fire is required to cleanse us. And I for one welcome it.......I can't wait to burn, because I have a gut feeling about what comes next. I'm not scared one iota of jumping into the fire.......because I know my time there will be short. Some of y'all gonna shit yourselves though.........just sayin... :whatever:
 
javaguru said:
I was raised protestant so I'm not overly familiar with the theological basis for the indulgence. Baptist's focused on the crucifixion of Christ and his forgiving the sins of the criminal hanging next to him as the theological basis, no matter what an individual had done during life one only had to accept Jesus to get eternal plat status. Since there was no intermediary between said sinner and God then no form of financial compensation could be required.
Click to expand...

There was no theological basis for 'buying' a piece of heaven. It was a purely fiscal business plan to appropriate as much land and wealth as the Church could.

One enlightened aspect however; progressive Catholics DO consider the *parable* of the crucifixion as the awakening of the human heart to co-(m)passion/co-suffering of the 'other'.

There was always a middleman when the Church Elite dealt with the peasantry. :evil:
 
musclemom said:
Hang on a second, where do you get off assuming that a person doesn't believe in a divine creator if they DON't believe in personal accountability to to this creative force?

If you look at people that believe in reincarnation they generally believe in a nonjudgemental divine creative force. People who believe in reincarnation believe you are accountable to your higher self and those whom you are owed or incur karma to.

Just because a person isn't a christian (and doesn't believe in some nosy, intrusive supreme being that's writing down in some universal book every time you touch yourself) does not make them atheists.

And while we're at it, what keeps atheists from turning into mass murderers?

I bet WELL more than 50% of the American prison population would have considered themselves good Christians BEFORE they committed their crimes.
Click to expand...

I agree with being accountable to your higher self.. etc.. etc..

exploring my spiritual possabilities..

all I can tell you is god does exist, I've recieved 100% proof in my lifetime.. which is quite amazing..

I don't know if god is judgemental or not, I know he is there to guide you if you let him, but not to take away your freedom of choice.

some of the best physics mediums in the world believe in god, and ofcourse alot of other things that go with that.. not the black/white heaven and hell stories.

many say there is no devil, there is no hell, but there is a heaven and even in the afterlife it can be a long journey to get there.
 
FriendlyCanadian said:
I agree with being accountable to your higher self.. etc.. etc..

exploring my spiritual possabilities..

all I can tell you is god does exist, I've recieved 100% proof in my lifetime.. which is quite amazing..

I don't know if god is judgemental or not, I know he is there to guide you if you let him, but not to take away your freedom of choice.

some of the best physics mediums in the world believe in god, and ofcourse alot of other things that go with that.. not the black/white heaven and hell stories.

many say there is no devil, there is no hell, but there is a heaven and even in the afterlife it can be a long journey to get there.
Click to expand...
If you have some scientific evidence then I would be happy to consider it. :)
 
LuluDeren said:
There was no theological basis for 'buying' a piece of heaven. It was a purely fiscal business plan to appropriate as much land and wealth as the Church could.

One enlightened aspect however; progressive Catholics DO consider the *parable* of the crucifixion as the awakening of the human heart to co-(m)passion/co-suffering of the 'other'.

There was always a middleman when the Church Elite dealt with the peasantry. :evil:
Click to expand...
Well, they always invent some theological basis from scripture. My ex-wife, to get re-married, had to go through the Catholic procedure based on scripture. It's an adversarial procedure that would prove we never entered into a valid marriage under God's eyes. :rolleyes:
 
javaguru said:
Well, they always invent some theological basis from scripture.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the ignorant aren't looking for testimonial other than 'the Church said so'. The theological basis could be no more than....'the Pope was speaking infallibly'. With indulgences, *donations* to the Church could forgive a sin and the 'deal' confirmed by the intermediary, the priest.

My ex-wife, to get re-married, had to go through the Catholic procedure based on scripture. It's an adversarial procedure that would prove we never entered into a valid marriage under God's eyes. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

My mom had to get an annullment in order to re-marry. And yes, it's a decree set forth that the marriage never existed. I am not a practicing catholic so I have no idea what the procedure is today. At the time, the Church did not recognize divorce, but it was obvious that members were getting divorced in civil courts. An annulment was a way for the Church to adapt to the social mores, but still consider doctrine. Nothing new there, the Church has always appropriated customs and folkways of populations...How do you think they remain relevent for hugh numbers of people?
 
LuluDeren said:
Yes, but the ignorant aren't looking for testimonial other than 'the Church said so'. The theological basis could be no more than....'the Pope was speaking infallibly'. With indulgences, *donations* to the Church could forgive a sin and the 'deal' confirmed by the intermediary, the priest.



My mom had to get an annullment in order to re-marry. And yes, it's a decree set forth that the marriage never existed. I am not a practicing catholic so I have no idea what the procedure is today. At the time, the Church did not recognize divorce, but it was obvious that members were getting divorced in civil courts. An annulment was a way for the Church to adapt to the social mores, but still consider doctrine. Nothing new there, the Church has always appropriated customs and folkways of populations...How do you think they remain relevent for hugh numbers of people?
Click to expand...
I had to sign an affidavit to the effect that I didn't really mean to get married and she had to get several people to testify via affidavit. It was funny because one of her best friend, a Catholic, refused to sign hers because she knew full well shelagh took the marriage seriously. lolllloll
 
javaguru said:
I had to sign an affidavit to the effect that I didn't really mean to get married and she had to get several people to testify via affidavit. It was funny because one of her best friend, a Catholic, refused to sign hers because she knew full well shelagh took the marriage seriously. lolllloll
Click to expand...

Ironic. I guess some parishoners self-interpret canon law. Just goes to show how transitory doctrine is.
 
redsamurai said:
If all had some modicum of judicial temperament..........we'd all be fine.
Click to expand...
That "Golden Rule" is a good idea but Christians never seem to implement it. That's because it came from evolution and not God.
 
cindylou said:
Morality Apart From God?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/god-ethi.html

If we don't believe we are created by God, if we believe we have accountability only to society, then there is no end to the depths of depravity that we can go in our search to justify our actions. Corrosion of morals begins in microscopic proportions, but if not checked by a standard beyond ourselves, it will continue until the corrosion wipes away the very foundation of our lives, and we find ourselves sinking in a sea of relativity
Click to expand...

Is this "standard beyond ourselves" you speak of not concocted by human beings? The moral values of God are the values that the people chose to attribute to him/her/it...
 
javaguru said:
They mentioned a study where monkey's would starve themselves rather than watch another monkey they were familiar with get electrical shocks. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a puddlemonkey, he would have eaten just to watch the other monkey get shocked and laugh.
Click to expand...
are monkees animals?

or are they mini-humans
 
who was that guy they called the manimal?

some wrestler I think
 
"Dr. Jonathan Chase... wealthy, young, handsome. A man with the brightest of futures. A man with the darkest of pasts. From Africa's deepest recesses, to the rarefied peaks of Tibet, heir to his father's legacy and the world's darkest mysteries. Jonathan Chase, master of the secrets that divide man from animal, animal from man... Manimal."
 
javaguru said:
I'm still in crazy town from a relationship that ended last December....:)
Click to expand...

I'm right there with you drinking a 40...make that 2 40's I think I need more than one :chomp:
:beer:
 
Cal_21 said:
I'll check those out tomorrow, sounds like an interesting topic. Right now I'm using all the energy I have fighting off a bad cold/fighting urges to eat a midnight snack lol. :chomp:
Click to expand...
and hitting up your ex........ :worried:
 
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