For those who stay lean all year

[lacoste]

For those of you who try to stay lean most of the year..say around 10% or less.. what does a typical day look like for you as far as diet goes.

 

[javaguru]

meal 1: 1 Serving oat bran and one serving blueberriies and a milk isolate shake
Meal 2: Milk isolate shake and six fish oil capsules
meal 3: as above
meal 4: Workout shake
Meal 5: Post workout shake
Meal 6: Chicken breast and pasta or veggies depending on cutting or not
Meal 7: 4 oz ground sirloin and broccoli
meal 8: 3 eggs, vegetarian fed chickens and 2 oz cheddar cheese.

 

[BOWTECH]

I avoid the garbage. No cookies, pies , cake, donuts, candybars, etc...It been so long since I have had any of that I don't miss it at all now. Haven't had a pop (soda) since 1992.

 

[pintoca]

I guess the question, as interesting as it is, it depends heavily on the personal type of each person (meso, endo, etc). For some people it would be almost imposible to remain that lean without being constantly on a cutting diet and hitting the cardio almost daily.

Some will only need to watch their "cheating" and be done with it.

When it comes the time for bulking... what do you do then? compromise the results on the sake of being lean? the correct approach would be to concentrate on your new goal (bulk) without going overboard and keeping the premise that you can ALWAYS drop the fat later.

 

[lacoste]

thanks bros...i just hate the up and down weight gain of bulking and then cutting, i think generally you usually end up loosing some of the muscle that you gain. So i was interested in not "cutting" year but just maintaining a lean physique. I mean ill be honest when people look at me i want them to say..damn that dude takes care of himself. I see a lot of guys that go to the gym religously but look like shit and i know that it all comes down to diet.

Java just a few questions for ya if you have the time. Milk isolate, this is different than whey, im guessing its probably slower digesting. And the oat bran, would oatmeal or steal cut oats fit in there as well. thanks again.

 

[Lifterforlife]

thanks bros...i just hate the up and down weight gain of bulking and then cutting, i think generally you usually end up loosing some of the muscle that you gain.

And rightfully so. For the natural athlete, this indeed is usually the case when dieting down for instance to single digits. It has been my experience(doing 12 contests) that the more bulk you amass, when dieting down you lose muscle that is gained. The little bit of muscle that is gained is easily lost in the dieting process.

So i was interested in not "cutting" year but just maintaining a lean physique. I mean ill be honest when people look at me i want them to say..damn that dude takes care of himself. I see a lot of guys that go to the gym religously but look like shit and i know that it all comes down to diet.

There are a few ways you can approach this. You can set a "set point" so to speak, and use that as your top off point. In other words, any benchmark you choose to use. For instance, 5% over your desired bodyfat, or 20 lbs. heavier than a certain weight. When you reach this point, with a clean bulking diet, then a "hardening phase" can be incorporated. This may last 4 weeks, or 6 weeks, dependent on just how much above your setpoint you go.

To reach a level and stay around that level, it is a matter of knowing your maintenance calories. If you know this, you can adjust your dietary intake to reflect this on a daily basis, even have a cheat day once per week if you are training hard. One day will not hurt you, chronic caloric consumption will.

 

[swaptrex]

pretty much whatever i want, but i am probably about 12-14% bf.

 

[lacoste]

Thanks lifterforlife thats some good advice. I was 14 and then i bulked and ended up at 17. But I think i would be happier with 12 and then cutting down to 8 when i really want to lean out. I would probably feel much leaner year round.

 

[Black03SVTCobra]

meal 1: 1 Serving oat bran and one serving blueberriies and a milk isolate shake
Meal 2: Milk isolate shake and six fish oil capsules
meal 3: as above
meal 4: Workout shake
Meal 5: Post workout shake
Meal 6: Chicken breast and pasta or veggies depending on cutting or not
Meal 7: 4 oz ground sirloin and broccoli
meal 8: 3 eggs, vegetarian fed chickens and 2 oz cheddar cheese.

How many cals in that Bro?

 

[Lifterforlife]

Thanks lifterforlife thats some good advice. I was 14 and then i bulked and ended up at 17. But I think i would be happier with 12 and then cutting down to 8 when i really want to lean out. I would probably feel much leaner year round.

Good luck to you bro....can't stress knowing maintenance calories enough. From this stems whatever you want to achieve, maintaining, gaining, or shedding fat. If you do not know this, it gets tough and becomes strictly alot of guesswork.

 

[javaguru]

How many cals in that Bro?

I prefer to go by macronutrient breakdown. If you're dieting, 1.5g protein per pound, 1g cho per pound, and .25g to .4g fat depending on your metabolism. I stay on the low end with fat but get much of it from EFA's. In my case that amounts to about 2,700 Calories a day.

 

[timtim]

i use lower cals when i want to reach my leanest, usually 2100 cals on training days, 1900 on cardio days. i do cardio during this phase 5 to 6 times a week at 45 minutes. when i am done with the leanest phase i up the cals to 2400 on training days and 2100 on cardio days. i do cardio 5 times a week during this period. i stay @ 10% when the cals are higher.

i weigh 180 at my leanest, @ 8% (see abs when not flexed) at 5'5". when i up the cals i get to 185 to 190, @ 11%.

cardio is key. have to do it if your not genetically lean like myself. i did the up and down for years. 5 years ago i stopped and i now look like i am on cycle year round. when i am on i look really good. i like it this way. i dropped 40 pounds in the last 5 years (was 220 at a higher bf for awhile then got tired of looking bloated). used to want to be a monster, not anymore, just muscular and cut now.

 

[Prizz]

Good luck to you bro....can't stress knowing maintenance calories enough. From this stems whatever you want to achieve, maintaining, gaining, or shedding fat. If you do not know this, it gets tough and becomes strictly alot of guesswork.

Some great posts there Lifter, but one factor hasn't been taken into effect here: AAS use..... If you're on a cycle, all the sudden you can gain muscle on your USUAL Maint calories.... Once you learn your metabolism, you will see just how much you can cut your calories, and stay lean, while not losing muscle either.... This is where Body Type comes into play..... Ecto's will require more calories to keep muscle then an Endo would.... This is why people are always saying, everyone is different, cause they are in this aspect..... However, I do agree with Lifter in that you need to find your Maint calories, but AAS use will affect this number, so keep that in mind too....

rizz

 

[lacoste]

Thanks bros..alot of help. I can put on weight and fat very easily so i have to incorporate cardio. But I work 12 hr days with and hour commute on each end so its tough, i can dedicate an 1 hr to 1hr and 15min a day. No more. 45 Minutes of cardio is not going to happen. I've been doing the elliptical for 20mins doing intervals or the treadmill and 3.5mph with 15degree incline after i lift and then 45-60mins on my off days. Will i still get good results but it will just take longer or am i doomed.

 

[timtim]

i did intervals for @ 8 months, wanted to see what the hype was all about. results were ok, not nearly as good as the longer duration lower intensity - i can stay harder and fuller doing the latter. i understand schedule dictates workout routines. see if you like the results of the intervals.

it's all about finding what caloric range works for you. once that is on point, the cardio will work itself out.

good luck.

 

[Lifterforlife]

First off, let me say I agree with timtim's post. To add to that.....

Here is a fascinating study that may help some folks out with cardio. Pre contest, I do just this, as I chronically increase my FO as I lower carbs. Hope this helps.

Official Journal of The
American Society of Exercise Physiologists (ASEP)

ISSN 1097-9751
An International Electronic Journal
Volume 7 Number 1 February 2004

Nutrition and Exercise

CHRONIC SUPPLEMENTATION WITH FISH OIL INCREASES FAT OXIDATION DURING EXERCISE IN YOUNG MEN

DEREK M. HUFFMAN, JODY L. MICHAELSON, TOM R. THOMAS

Exercise Physiology Program, Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of Missouri-Columbia, Columbia, MO 65211

ABSTRACT

CHRONIC SUPPLEMENTATION WITH FISH OIL INCREASES FAT OXIDATION DURING EXERCISE IN YOUNG MEN. Derek M. Huffman, Jody L. Michaelson, Tom R. Thomas. JEPonline. 2004;7(1):48-56. Recent evidence suggests that omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil (FO) stimulate fat oxidation in liver and perhaps skeletal muscle. Our purpose was to examine the effect of an acute high-dose and a chronic low-dose of FO on fat oxidation during exercise. Seven recreationally active males (age 21-27 yr) jogged for 60 min at 60 % VO2max in three trials administered in random order: 1) no meal (NM), 2) 4 h following a high-fat meal (HFM), and 3) 4 h following an isocaloric HFM partly substituted with FO (HFM+FO). The FO supplement contained 60 % eicosapentaenoic acid, and 40 % docosahexaenoic acid. Subjects then supplemented 4 g/day of FO for 3 wk and while remaining on the supplementation regimen, repeated the same three trials in random order. Indirect calorimetry was used for the determination of oxygen consumption, respiratory exchange ratio, and energy expenditure from fat and carbohydrate. Heart rate, and rating of perceived exertion were also monitored for each test. The acute high-dose FO had no significant affect on fat use during exercise. In contrast, chronic supplementation significantly augmented total fat energy expenditure as compared to trials before supplementation in each of the three treatments versus trials prior to chronic supplementation (NM, 269.1 ± 49.8 v. 245.7 ± 36.2 Kcal, P = 0.009; HFM, 295.2 ± 40.2 v. 260.8 ± 36.4, P = 0.001; HFM+FO, 299.0 ± 38.7 v. 280.4 ± 35.9 Kcal, P = 0.002). These data suggest that chronic, but not acute FO supplementation enhanced the contribution of lipid during exercise in young active males.



Omega-3 fatty acids (n-3fa) in the form of fish oil (FO) have garnered much attention for their triglyceride (TG) lowering affect (1,2). The mechanistic action of FO and other n-3fa is believed to involve the suppression of enzymes engaged in TG synthesis and stimulation of beta-oxidation in the liver (1,2). Recent studies have demonstrated novel pathways that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), and in particular eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from FO, enhance fatty acid oxidation (3). PUFA such as EPA and DHA are believed to mediate the repartitioning of metabolic fuels by stimulating fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis, inhibiting fatty acid and TG synthesis, and reducing concentrations of malonyl-CoA. In vitro studies suggest that metabolites of EPA and DHA are more potent activators of fat oxidation than other fatty acids via the binding of the transcription factor, peroxisomal poliferator-activated receptor-alpha (PPAR-á)

 

[fortunatesun]

Omega-3 fatty acids (n-3fa) in the form of fish oil (FO) have garnered much attention for their triglyceride (TG) lowering affect (1,2). The mechanistic action of FO and other n-3fa is believed to involve the suppression of enzymes engaged in TG synthesis and stimulation of beta-oxidation in the liver (1,2). Recent studies have demonstrated novel pathways that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), and in particular eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from FO, enhance fatty acid oxidation (3). PUFA such as EPA and DHA are believed to mediate the repartitioning of metabolic fuels by stimulating fatty acid oxidation and ketogenesis, inhibiting fatty acid and TG synthesis, and reducing concentrations of malonyl-CoA. In vitro studies suggest that metabolites of EPA and DHA are more potent activators of fat oxidation than other fatty acids via the binding of the transcription factor, peroxisomal poliferator-activated receptor-alpha (PPAR-á)

Do you suppose, then, that fish oil is superior to even flax or borage oil in fatty acid oxidation?
I'm just curious, as my own experience differs a bit from the study. I've found that even though I supplement with an EFA, I can easily lose a few extra pounds with a diet high in salmon or other fat enriched fish. This differs from the study which reported no change in the acute supplementation group. On the other hand, long term intake of fish oil and/or salmon oil instead of flax had negligable success. This may be due to my somewhat offbeat metabolism or a difference in fresh vs. processed sources.

 

[view]

For those of you who try to stay lean most of the year..say around 10% or less.. what does a typical day look like for you as far as diet goes.

well, staying lean yearround can be a bit complicated at times, but here is how it looks for myself:

(** I should note that for the first time in a few years I am not lean).

you are going to have to adjust your macros accordingly though. I am about 270ish right now (16-17% though, which is about the highest i've ever been -- diet doesn't look like the one below)

meal I
-1.5 cup of oats
-16 egg whites

meal II
-1 whole wheat flax bagel with ANPB
-3 scoops of whey isolate

meal III
-1.5 cup of brown rice
-4 ounce brocolli, 4 ounce carrots
-10 ounce chicken breast

meal IV (pwo)
-16 oz potatoe with ketchup
-10 ounce chicken breast w/ bbq sauce

meal V
-4 oz brocolli, 4 oz carrots
-10 oz salmon fillet

meal VI
-3 scoops whey protein isolate
-1 tbsp flax oil

I train 6 days a week.
-MWF is weights for about an hour.
-tues/thu/sat is cardio for 45 minutes (sometimes AM)

-I'll periodically use clen for a couple weeks, maybe 3-5 grams a day of a nice green tea product for a couple weeks, then take a month off of fat burners.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Do you suppose, then, that fish oil is superior to even flax or borage oil in fatty acid oxidation?

Indeed. Marine sources are always superior in EFA/DHA absorbtion/content. Omega 3's in non marine sources are only 1/15th as effective as omega 3's from marine sources. Flax seed for instances parent is ALA, and this needs to be broken down by the body. It contains only 18 carbons, this is why. The body must make it longer, 20 carbons to become bioactive. Some folks have an impaired ability to do this, and even those who can, the process in and of itself will limit the already available benefits of DHA/EPA of marine sources.

Both actually would probably not be a bad idea.

I'm just curious, as my own experience differs a bit from the study. I've found that even though I supplement with an EFA, I can easily lose a few extra pounds with a diet high in salmon or other fat enriched fish. This differs from the study which reported no change in the acute supplementation group. On the other hand, long term intake of fish oil and/or salmon oil instead of flax had negligable success. This may be due to my somewhat offbeat metabolism or a difference in fresh vs. processed sources.

Good point...I imagine that no matter how you get it, EPA/DHA is superior. I would guess that the study was easier to do with supplements and easier to regulate than with whole foods. As usual, studies are just that, and limited by some things such as you state. But I would believe that generally, this is the case.

 

[Khryz]

Wait, I'm confused - so when and how much Fish Oils should you be taking while dieting?

 

[Lifterforlife]

Wait, I'm confused - so when and how much Fish Oils should you be taking while dieting?

This depends on your macros, but as you lower your carbs, you can easily increase w3 intake. I typically end up doing 15-20 gr. when dieting.

The typical american diet is high in w6 to w3...you would have to take a buttload for any "problems" to arise. The only thing I can think of off hand that may even remotely cause problems if you are going in for surgery or something. It can be a blood thinner.

I think the body is pretty good at regulating the DHA/EPA intake.

 

[javaguru]

This depends on your macros, but as you lower your carbs, you can easily increase w3 intake. I typically end up doing 15-20 gr. when dieting.

The typical american diet is high in w6 to w3...you would have to take a buttload for any "problems" to arise. The only thing I can think of off hand that may even remotely cause problems if you are going in for surgery or something. It can be a blood thinner.

I think the body is pretty good at regulating the DHA/EPA intake.

I agree, I normally take in a very large amount of fats from dha/epa but also from Flax and gla. Ten to twenty grams of fish oil caps are very normal for me; Fish oil caps are my single largest source of fats when dieting.