First Time User - Cycle for Bulking Clean Mass. Does it Exist?

[firstslovak]

Hello everybody,

in the last 12 months only by moderately training, diet and cardio, I passed from 115 kilos (about 240 lbs.) to 78 kilos (170 lbs.).

I would like to put on some "clean mass" but I am worried about to dont get too much fat on.

I was reading about Cycles for beginners like:

TEST + DIANABOL

DIANABOL+DECA

TEST+Equipose

I am 39yo 78 kilos 180 cm.and I am not looking for an "insane grow".
My goal is safer is better than sorry.
I know that it is almost impossible to put on muscles without also getting water+fat but the purpose of this thread is to ask to experienced users to help me to design two or maybe three cycles for a FIRST TIME USER.

maybe....
1. the safer but limited gain
2. the moderate but not excessively bloating gain
3. the gainer but at risk of fat and water retention.

Thanks to anyone would help.

 

[Greatercow]

test only or test + var

 

[tsuwr927]

Omnadren or Sust plus Winny or Var

 

[ironcheif1984]

Hello everybody,

in the last 12 months only by moderately trining, diet and cardio, I passed from 115 kilos (about 240 lbs.) to 78 kilos (170 lbs.).

I would like to put on some "clean mass" but I am worried about to dont get too much fat on.

I was reading about Cycles for beginners like:

TEST + DIANABOL

DIANABOL+DECA

TEST+Equipose

I am 39yo and I am not looking for an "insane grow".
My goal is safer is better than sorry.
I know that it is almost impossible to put on muscles without also getting water+fat but the purpose of this thread is to ask to experienced users to help me to design two or maybe three cycles for a FIRST TIME USER.

maybe....
1. the safer but limited gain
2. the moderate but not excessively bloating gain
3. the gainer but at risk of fat and water retention.

Thanks to anyone would help.

Well since you are going to be a first time user i suggest only using one compund that way you know how you react to that compount if you go to use it again. If you were to use more then one compound at the same time and something went wrong you wouldnt know what compound did it to you so stick with one compound for your first cycle and see how you react. Try a Test Prop cycle for 10wks @100mgs EOD if you are not looking to bloat to much this will give you 350mgs ew for the 10 wks and give you less bloat the test E or test C. Everyone reacts differently i didnt bloat on Test prop or Test E or Test C i had lean gains some people bloat and some people dont. Shit i had almost no acne during and after my cycle's also but you could be different. For what ever you choose for your first cycle i suggest that you have your PCT items in hand before you even start your cycle as well as any ancillaries in case a problem happens and you can treat it. I hope this info helps you. You should really go with test for a first cycle by it self.

 

[swole]

So you want to lean bulk.

Post your diet and training routine so we can tailor a regime based on your needs.

At 39 you might want to consider getting your test levels checked out. Maybe your doc can put you on HRT if your levels come back low and you tell him you feel like shit (tired, low sex drive).

 

[jroc86]

For a first cycle as the 170'lber?

250mg test E for 12-14 weeks
40mg Anavar for final 6 weeks
Use some adex, and HCG throughout

Run a nice pct with clomid, nolva, and supps.

 

[swole]

I would like to remind people that just because first time users are well over 25 doesn't mean they are ready for AAS.

 

[sensational]

I would like to remind people that just because first time users are well over 25 doesn't mean they are ready for AAS.

+1

Had a buddy call me today saying he wanted to get big...I started asking stats how long training etc...and dude has never even trained!!

I tried to explain to him that he will get steroid like gains by simply getting his ass in the gym and changing his lifestyle, but he was having none of it.

People just want the best of both worlds.

 

[sweed]

How long have you been training? how tall are you ( in feet and inches please )
I commend you on your great success so far! that is a great job so! It's a lot of hard work to loose 70 lbs!
I would recommend something, but I would really like to see your training history first.
Clean mass we can suggest for you.

 

[eddymerckx]

I would like to remind people that just because first time users are well over 25 doesn't mean they are ready for AAS.

swole is one smart bro---i am 41 and still not ready for my 1st cycle....even though i am on like number 433

 

[firstslovak]

Hello everyone,

first of all,
thanks to everyone replied

I trained when I was 16 to 21 and got a decent size.
Then I turned into a potato-couch
I wanted to return "decent" and losing almost 40 kilos was not easy.

My muscle were "sleeping" but respond well to stimulation (then I had a 41/42 cm arm.)

By not training for almost 12 years my goal was to melt as much fat as I could.

But now,
I really need to be encouraged and put some decent muscle on.

I train 3 to 4 times a week.
Done 45 min cardio every day and now every other day.
I want to put some decent mass but not insane.

Diet is on protein and clean (otherwise I would not lose 40 from 115 to 78 kilos)
Now I am 78 kg(170 lbs) and 180 cm (about 6')
Looking for a 4 to 6 weeks cycle with 2 compounds.

I tried to reserach and everyone says a diff. thing
1 comp. is better.... no no 2 is better.
DIANABOL is the best...... DIANABOL is only water.

Last year I just tried a cycle with PH's H-Drol that is Oral Turinabol as described on the bottle.
Responded very well.

I attached 2 pics (sorry for the quality but I only have a phone cam).

I dont feel like I have low TEST because I am horny all the day ))

 

[sweed]

Like I said. you did a great job loosing the weight. Train for a while with heavier weight to get some size along with a solid diet, not too much so you gain the fat back. Test will be the only thing you will need for a cycle when the time comes after 6 month of this kind of training.
Stay plugged in and you'll do great!

 

[firstslovak]

It is MORE than one year and half that I train hard.

I need hint on how to build a cycle;
not an hint on if to do it or not to do it.

I already have taken my decision and before to start it I would like to have the help from a more experienced users.

 

[firstslovak]

What do you think about these?


TEST ENTA
400 mgs week

DIANABOL
20 mg. day


or

TEST ENTA
400 mgs. week

DECA
200 mg. week

or

 

[the_alcatraz]

For a first cycle as the 170'lber?

250mg test E for 12-14 weeks
40mg Anavar for final 6 weeks
Use some adex, and HCG throughout

Run a nice pct with clomid, nolva, and supps.

Running HCG throughout is stupid....it's called PCT = post cycle therapy...why would you run HCG thoughout?

Run it PCT. The only thing you might want to run throughout is the anti-Es if gyno gets too intense.

 

[cobracock1979]

Alcatraz,

Whats up with using HCG on cycle?I run HCG for 3 weeks upto PCT. Makes perfect sense to me. IMO Id rather stop atrophy happening at all, rather than having to reversing it at the end of the cycle.

 

[firstslovak]

I it very nice to see that on something so important like oncycle/postcycle there are so different points of view )

 

[firstslovak]

Specifically I would liek to run DIANABOL but,
looking for something to "mild" the effects.

 

[eddymerckx]

Alcatraz,

Whats up with using HCG on cycle?I run HCG for 3 weeks upto PCT. Makes perfect sense to me. IMO Id rather stop atrophy happening at all, rather than having to reversing it at the end of the cycle.

2 schools of thought--

(1) (on heavier cycles) low dose throughout the cycle prevents a complete supression of HTPA--(low meanaing 250 every 4-5 days from the ) and easier return to normal;

(2) low dose during will contribute to desensit of the leydig cells and should be avoided.

me, I do #1---there is so much lit out there but none that is applic to BBs and i retrun to normal faster.

em

 

[swole]

It is MORE than one year and half that I train hard.

I need hint on how to build a cycle;
not an hint on if to do it or not to do it.

I already have taken my decision and before to start it I would like to have the help from a more experienced users.

We don't need hints on whether or not you should do AAS. We have enough HARD EVIDENCE:

"By not training for almost 12 years my goal was to melt as much fat as I could."

This statement speaks volumes.

You still didn't post your diet or training, and people are still posting suggestions. This isn't how we operate.

Until you admit there is more you can research about gaining weight, this is a closed case - you are NOT ready for steroids.

All the experienced users are telling you the same thing - you are NOT ready for steroids.

 

[eddymerckx]

"By not training for almost 12 years my goal was to melt as much fat as I could."

.

i missed that:

12 years to melt fat??--jabba the hut could be shredded in 12 years

 

[1999TL]

Running HCG throughout is stupid....it's called PCT = post cycle therapy...why would you run HCG thoughout?

Run it PCT. The only thing you might want to run throughout is the anti-Es if gyno gets too intense.

I've read otherwise.

 

[firstslovak]

We don't need hints on whether or not you should do AAS. We have enough HARD EVIDENCE:

"By not training for almost 12 years my goal was to melt as much fat as I could."

This statement speaks volumes.

You still didn't post your diet or training, and people are still posting suggestions. This isn't how we operate.

Until you admit there is more you can research about gaining weight, this is a closed case - you are NOT ready for steroids.

All the experienced users are telling you the same thing - you are NOT ready for steroids.

I have posted up the training + diet.
Should I be more precise?
And when ready is?
Yes yes I known
everyone here first worked out for 5 or 6 years to reach his biological limit.
Feed only by momma's pasta and bistecche (meat).
After that they all started the first cycle.

Com'on.
We have to be realist.

There's is people here started AAS at young age when TEST is sky rocketing.

I did some cycle at time when the onlt PCT was the piramidal use to adapt your body to re-enter in the normal values (15 years ago).

I am not asking in hints to build a 20pounds-in4weeks cycle.

I would to run a mild cycle,
and I would like to evaluate all the PROS and CONS.

DIANABOL is good for bulking but water retention, virilization and difficult to keep the results.

I was thinking of DECA+WIN what do you think?

 

[swole]

I have posted up the training + diet.
Should I be more precise?
And when ready is?
Yes yes I known
everyone here first worked out for 5 or 6 years to reach his biological limit.
Feed only by momma's pasta and bistecche (meat).
After that they all started the first cycle.

Com'on.
We have to be realist.

There's is people here started AAS at young age when TEST is sky rocketing.

I did some cycle at time when the onlt PCT was the piramidal use to adapt your body to re-enter in the normal values (15 years ago).

I am not asking in hints to build a 20pounds-in4weeks cycle.

I would to run a mild cycle,
and I would like to evaluate all the PROS and CONS.

DIANABOL is good for bulking but water retention, virilization and difficult to keep the results.

I was thinking of DECA+WIN what do you think?

If I recommend something, tell me what you're going to eat and train on a daily basis.

 

[eddymerckx]

I have posted up the training + diet.
Should I be more precise?
And when ready is?
Yes yes I knowm
everyone here first worled out for 5 or 6 years to reach his biological limit.
Feed only by momma's pasta and bistecche (meat).
After that they all started the first cycle.

Com'on.
We have to be realist.

There's is people here started AAS at young age when TEST is sky rocketing.

I did some cycle at time when the onlt PCT was the piramidal use to adapt your body to re-enter in the normal values (15 years ago).

I am not asking in sugguestion to buil a 20poundsin4weeks cycle.

I would to run a mild cycle,
and I would like to evaluate all the PROS and CONS.

DIANABOL is good for bulking but water retention, virization and difficult to keep the results.

I was thinking of DECA+WIN what do you think?

d-bol does not convert to e in any real amount (although the amount that converts is very bioactive in certain bros)

 

[Burpees]

To the OP, congrats on the weight loss! I hope it was done properly and not on some starvation, drug induced death ride. You yourself said you trained mildly.. Why not bump up the intensity, find your maintenance calories, bump those up and see how you grow.

Regardless, people will do what they want. If you look around enough you will find the info you need.. I'm on my first cycle, I suggest one compound at a time, i didn't opt for that and now is when I start to sense the differences on how I feel. Also if you aren't lifting hard naturally, you will develop some pains from the weights going up from the drugs.

People here are willing to help, not only help you attain your goals, but attain them safely. Be smart bro, the size will come, the strength will come, the ladies will flock..

Running HCG throughout is stupid....it's called PCT = post cycle therapy...why would you run HCG thoughout?

Run it PCT. The only thing you might want to run throughout is the anti-Es if gyno gets too intense.

Alc, the theory behind hCG on cycle is that it keeps the HPTA active. LH pathways are ready to kick into full gear on their own when you really begin your PCT.. hCG in high doses is suppressive, so it's arguable about when it's best to use it.. Just like Proviron.

 

[firstslovak]

If I recommend something, tell me what you're going to eat and train on a daily basis.

I am looking (under AAS) to:

6 days a week.

Training each group 2 times a week.
1. pecs - tricipes
2. bicipes - dorsals
3. legs - deltoids
4 as 1
5 as 2
6 as 3
7 just cardio
(this is just an idea based on my experience.
I have weak deltoids, good tricipes, good bicipes)
Legs respond as hell.
Calfs are abot 43 cm. and defined.
Accepting hints. and tips on HOW MANY REPS AND SERIES DO.

6-pack
Old school: 100 reps 4 times
New school: trained as the other groups.
(I have much free time, I get up late due the work but, then I can train when I want,
when is besttime?)

cardio, one more day of the week for a total of 2 if needed. 45, min

sunday only cardio. 45 min.

Protein based diet but also good fats and slow carbos (normally oat).

proteins about 3 gr./kg weight

Fat from good sources as Salmon flax oil etc.

6 meals a day

"morning" 10:00 (10:00 is morning for me because I work at night)
13:00 lunch
16:00 break (protein shake)
19:00 dinner
22:00 break (protein shake)
02:00 before bed snack with slow proteins (such as casein of calcium) to feed the muscles at night
And here the doubts!!!!!

-Old school said to make complete meals (vitamins are liposolubilis)
-new school carbos FAR from proteins because insulin boost lipogenesis and proteins must be convert in muscolar tissue and not fat.

-Old School Protein BEFORE training
-New SChool Proteins BEFORE training

I am 180 x 78 kg. (I tried BF with a weight balance and given a 20% result.)
How many Calories a Day?
How Distribuited?

How many Proteins?

How Much Fat?

SUPPLEMENTS:
Tring to avoid to flush money down the toilet.
I still believe the essentials are Vitamins+minerals+proteins+creatine

There is some new compound to be ESSENTIAL when under AAS?

I run a cycle when about 23yo. (now dont laugh! 50 mg for 2 weeks then 100 mg a week and then 50 mg a week of DECA)
was ending 80's and the only was to PCT was pyramidal.

GOAL:
As much lean mass as possible (even if I know that without0 overcalories and
also fat there is not groen).

I hope you understood.
My goal is a physic "a la" Nubret, "a la"Labrada.

I would be happy of 5 kilos of REAL muscle (it is useless to gain 12 kilos when most is water retention).

I hope to have well explained my goal,
I am not a noob,
just an old, "rust" guy of the 80's )

 

[firstslovak]

To the OP, congrats on the weight loss! I hope it was done properly and not on some starvation, drug induced death ride. You yourself said you trained mildly.. Why not bump up the intensity, find your maintenance calories, bump those up and see how you grow.

Regardless, people will do what they want. If you look around enough you will find the info you need.. I'm on my first cycle, I suggest one compound at a time, i didn't opt for that and now is when I start to sense the differences on how I feel. Also if you aren't lifting hard naturally, you will develop some pains from the weights going up from the drugs.

People here are willing to help, not only help you attain your goals, but attain them safely. Be smart bro, the size will come, the strength will come, the ladies will flock..



Alc, the theory behind hCG on cycle is that it keeps the HPTA active. LH pathways are ready to kick into full gear on their own when you really begin your PCT.. hCG in high doses is suppressive, so it's arguable about when it's best to use it.. Just like Proviron.

I only used Venom Hyperdrive + Primaforce
Yes,
much muscular tissue has been lost but....
I believe in muscular memory.
It will be regained fast.
I just need that little (kick) to motivate and oldass as me to go on.
You cant imagine how much hard was to lose 40 kgs.

Strenght for me is not a goal.
Good Body yes.

I need this cycle more for menthal motivation than for real strenght gain.

I also thought that just one compound was better and 2 too hard but.....
.... than I discovered that normally a second compound is used to "mediate" the side-effects of the first.

When you run deca cycle for example you need also the support of an androgenic due conversion. Deca has also the problem to be a BIG shutter down.

Winny is good but mostly "save" mass..... and 17-alfa.
I need to build now.

DIANABOL good for KICKING IN but 17-meth and difficult to retain results.

Equipose very good, no aromatization but not much good as builder.

Anadrol (to be forgot, the most dangerous)

My doubts about the first cycle is about to run a TEST based cysle (i am a little concerned by the hair loss)
or a Deca/Equipose based cycle with winny/deca to be adde.

As I said I am not looking for the monster cycle to get 25 pounds the first cycle.
I prefer to run more small safer cycles.
Do the first and see how I respond to that.
Than take a decision.
I am an EASY GAINER.
Gaining mass for me was never a problem.
Definition was.
If I dont watch my diet (due my slow metabolism I think) my weight skyroket.
Building some muscle will also help me to keep the results and remain lean.

As said before;
I dont need to go 6% BF
I dont need to prepare for contest
I am not looking for the insena look all veins and mass.
I am looking for the good looking body.
I know I could do it without AAS but,
I am almost 40.......... if not now ... WHEN?


Thanks to everyone.

 

[eddymerckx]

I .

Winny is good but mostly "save" mass..... and 17-alfa.
I need to build now.

DIANABOL good for KICKING IN but 17-meth and difficult to retain results.

Equipose very good, no aromatization but not much good as builder.

Anadrol (to be forgot, the most dangerous)

sorry, no one need to build now---this process is a marathon not a sprint. if you need instant muscles just buy one of those Hulk suits.

and anadrol is not the most dangerous by any means....and equipoise can convert to as much as 30% eee ----I think you need to do a lot more research my friend

 

[firstslovak]

sorry, no one need to build now---this process is a marathon not a sprint. if you need instant muscles just buy one of those Hulk suits.

and anadrol is not the most dangerous by any means....and equipoise can convert to as much as 30% eee ----I think you need to do a lot more research my friend

Dear Eddy,
now that you have shown you know "things",
if your goal is not to give advices.... I dont see the point of your posting.
It is your third pointless post. (beside to show you know).
You know things?
Good,
Post in a constructive manner.
I had wrong info on equipose?
Good.... correct me.
But please avoid to be the teacher at the desk that just want to show how is he good.
Thanks.

I need to pack muscles now it is referred that I want it from NOW,
not in this moment.
I dieted for months,
now I want to train for muscles.

I know that "muscle in the bottle" dont exist.
But you are surely a good natural BB that has trained hard for years just with proteins and vitamins.
I am the bad ass,

 

[eddymerckx]

Dear Eddy,
now that you have shown you know "things",
if your goal is not to give advices.... I dont see the point of your posting.
It is your third pointless post. (beside to show you know).
You know things?
Good,
Post in a constructive manner.
I had wrong info on equipose?
Good.... correct me.
But please avoid to be the teacher at the desk that just want to show how is he good.
Thanks.

I need to pack muscles now it is referred that I want it from NOW,
not in this moment.
I dieted for months,
now I want to train for muscles.

I know that "muscle in the bottle" dont exist.
But you are surely a good natural BB that has trained hard for years just with proteins and vitamins.
I am the bad ass,

no, i pointed out that you do not have a clue and need to do a lot more research--i am not here to teach you how to use gear--we will advise you and help you hone a cycle or help with troublesome issues, but not to give you the Cliff's notes version of gear use. Without a solid base of knowledge you will be on this board posting every five minutes with every little question and no doubt do more harm than good.

 

[ironcheif1984]

no, i pointed out that you do not have a clue and need to do a lot more research--i am not here to teach you how to use gear--we will advise you and help you hone a cycle or help with troublesome issues, but not to give you the Cliff's notes version of gear use. Without a solid base of knowledge you will be on this board posting every five minutes with every little question and no doubt do more harm than good.

Eddy this guy only wants to hear what he wants to hear anything else that any one tells him its seems that he is not going to listen. He didnt need to disrespect you like that and we dont need people here like that. Everyone here is here to help one anouther about cycles and to ask for advice and if you cant take the advice of people who know what they are talking about then go else where. Eddy is well respected on the board and how dare you disrespect him like that he is giving you solid advice and just because its not what you want to hear to bash him because of that.

 

[swole]

We're done here.

You want advice? Respect and listen to what we're telling you.

 

[digger]

Language barrier, guys -- He's saying "I want to build muscles now" when he means to say "I want to build muscles NEXT". Re-read that last post that Eddy quoted.