First session with counselor

[chesty]

We talked to the counselor tonight from the church (certified) And she nailed me to a tee. Unemotional, hurtful, spiteful unable to trust with my heart.

We talked alot and most of the discussion was centered on her. The counselor asked her if she had been attending church regularly and she hadn't of course neither have I. She then asked her if she thought it would work and she told her that she (wife) didn't see that. She then asked her if she thought God would tell her it was over and that he couldn't see it. She said yes, and the lady told her no, he wouldn't. She said that God would tell her that it was worth saving and that it can be saved.

She asked her if she could give 6 months to this, explained that it is a long time but in the big picture it is nothing compared to the 17 years we have had together. She said she just didn't see it happening, but did agree to a second meeting next week. She gave us homework to do. She has to write down what she sees as an ideal husband but not while she is all emotional. She nailed us both perfectly. Her feelings of guilt, no feelings for me at the moment, resentment, etc. Explained to her that even though I was showing her I was/wanted to change how she felt that it was fake and not real because of the last 17 years.

She also told her that it was me that had the most work to do. I had to learn how to feel. How to become "in touch" with my feelings.

She also explained to us about giving things up and how women feel differently about sex then men. Boy did she bullseye that one! She told us that she normally asks couples to live in separate places. To give her the break from me to allow her feelings of guilt, resentment, etc to simmer down. Told me I had to back off and do everything based on her Que's to me. If she is just having idle chit chat give her space, told her if she needed to to just tell me to back off and give her space. In our case with children she asked us to sleep in separate bedrooms. So we are.

She is so fragile now our lives hang by a glass sliver. This was really cool. She asked her how you develop trust? She couldn't answer it, then she asked her how do you know you can trust your friend? She said by being there for her and the counselor pointed that that was due to that "consistency" Which she aggreed was correct.

She told that she would over time by my consistency in my commitment to this that she would develop that trust again. Not over night, but little by little. She told her one day you wake up go, I am not so mad anymore, another day you wake up and say, he is not so bad and then one day you wake up go, hey, he is sort of cute.

The bottom line is she is very faithful to God and the lady told her that her going to bars, looking at other guys even though she was with her friend (a girl) was not what God wants and that it was wrong. She told her that God wants us to stay together, and that if all marriages were based on feelings only they would last a year at the most. And that it is hard work that keeps the marriage together.

Even though she couldn't initially agree to 6 months tonight, she agreed to another session, which to me is a good sign.

If you believe in God, pray for us.

I'll keep you informed.

 

[from zero]

Thoughts are with you bro. Hang in there.

 

[lucidblue]

It sounds like you got a lot out of your first session! You've got work to do, but you seem to be ready to do it. I think it is a good sign that she agreed to at least go to another session. I hope by then she is willing to commit to the 6 months. My prayers are with you.

 

[Werd]

I am not really big on the whole "what God wants" thing but the "Breathe, and give it one day at a time" thing seems to be right on.

If two people really want to be together there is no obstacle that they can not overcome.

I am thinking positive thoughts for you and your wife and your children.

 

[Barak]

Hope it works Bro. will be praying for you, It takes both to make it work Brother and you both have a long way to go,PM me anytime.

 

[chesty]

Thanks. I am hoping/praying that those negative feelings will start to subside as each day goes by and that she can see that it is not too late and that it is what God would want.

I am very scared of next Tuesday. I don't know what she will say, but I am afraid of the answer. I am more afraid that her so called friend will not be a positive influence. She is divorced single mother of two who has suffered the last four years. She followed us out here from Kansas when we moved and I knew then that that was a bad sign and would be bad influence.

She is supposed to talk to the pastor this week. I sure hope she does. I am too to speak with the pastor.

Maybe the counselor will not push the commitment issue next week and will just have us come back for a third and a fourth session. To help her to see that the trust she needs to have from me and me from her is slowly increasing. So that when she asks her the question again she will be able to see that things will be different and that I am changing for the better.

I did ask the counselor about friends and mentioned my concerns about her going out with "her" friend and they would end up meeting a bunch of guys at the bar that her friend knew and how she was told that they were interested in her. I just said that I didn't think that was a good influence on the situation. The counselor asked what God had to say about that and then explained to her that she would end up with the same guy and problems that she has now. That by drinking and doing what she was doing was not helping but hurting the situation. She also told me though that if she did decide to go to the bar with her friend and meet up with the guys that I could not say nothing. Part of the giving her distance and emotional detachment that she needs to heal and not be angry with me to see that she really can work this out with me.

What I found interesting was that when I thought she was cheating on me years ago, she wasn't physically, but in her heart she was and she admitted that last night. I didn't know this and all the evidence pointed to a physical encounter, and I cheated on her in response, which she knew about cause I told her after it happened. So, while the fault for the problems is mostly mine, she is to blame for some of it.

Here is the a real eye opener. We had gotten a divorce 4 years ago to rid us of the paper that I thought was causing the problems and after a few months decided to work on it. That was 4 years ago.

The counselor then informed us that divorce is only recognized for adultery (of which we are both guilty of) but told us we that according to God we are still man and wife and that we are still married. I hope that will help give a positive influence on her as well.

 

[jd_uk]

Not sure I believ in God, but it prayed for you anyway.

Good luck, I'm sure things will work out good.

 

[chesty]

Another interesting point that was made last night was that I was burned by the church which condoned my first wife committing adultry and then marrying the two of them. And when my wife moved in with she said that at that moment (which coincided with the finalization of my divorce, which was changed in my abscense by my ex from joint custody of kids to sole custody for her, had the child support increased,etc) I didn't talk to her for several weeks and turne my back on her. So I was burned by the law. Then a year later after we had been married for about 15 months, I was forced into my kids being adopted by my ex's husband. And I was burned again by my ex. And on top of that, I was taught by my father and mothe to bottle things up, harden my heart, etc. And I was dead out of the gates with no chance.

She told her that I was very normal, not weird or evil and that 80% of all men who sit where I was sitting last or who she see's and that it can be repaired, that I can be retrained and that she would get what she is looking for.

But, ultimately the final choice lies with her.

 

[beastboy]

I think the "friend" is causing alot of the problem. I've seen this all too oftern. They need a partner in crime....and as soon as the "friend" finds someone to settle down with, your wife will be old news.

 

[Werd]

I think the "friend" is causing alot of the problem. I've seen this all too oftern. They need a partner in crime....and as soon as the "friend" finds someone to settle down with, your wife will be old news.

No offense, but that is incredibly insulting, as if a woman can not think for herself? No one is to blame here except the man and woman involved. On the flip side? No one can fix this except BOTH OF THEM... not God, not a friend, no one... just the two of them. Pretty scary concept; having enough faith in another human being to put YOUR future in thier hands.

Can friends play a role? Absolutely, but ultimately that person is the only one accountable for their thinking.

 

[chesty]

That is true. All are accountable for their actions in the end. But so called friends can provide for an unhealthy influence. They may actually think they are doing good by telling them to leave or you need to get out you don't need him. They may also be a good influence as well.

The bottom line is I am a decent judge of character, I knew when my wife was cheating on me even though it wasn't physical I knew. I know when someone cannot be trusted and it is her. I have seen her type a hundred times. And it just gets worse.

She was told by the counselor that it was not healthy to making right choices by hanging out at the bars with her and her guy friends, so she has to make the choice. I just hope she makes the one I want.

 

[from zero]

No offense, but that is incredibly insulting

Agreed, but unfortunately, it can be very true.

 

[lucidblue]

No offense, but that is incredibly insulting, as if a woman can not think for herself?

Can friends play a role? Absolutely, but ultimately that person is the only one accountable for their thinking.

Why is it insulting? Woman AND men are influenced by the people they associate themselves with. Friends can be extremely bad influences on a person. Yes, ultimately the person is accountable for their own thinking. However, one should realize when it's time to stop spending time with friends that bring out a negative side or provide too much temptation (this could be cheating, drugs,etc.).

 

[Werd]

That is true. All are accountable for their actions in the end. But so called friends can provide for an unhealthy influence. They may actually think they are doing good by telling them to leave or you need to get out you don't need him. They may also be a good influence as well.

The bottom line is I am a decent judge of character, I knew when my wife was cheating on me even though it wasn't physical I knew. I know when someone cannot be trusted and it is her. I have seen her type a hundred times. And it just gets worse.

She was told by the counselor that it was not healthy to making right choices by hanging out at the bars with her and her guy friends, so she has to make the choice. I just hope she makes the one I want.

I am not arguing the fact that there can be any number of negative influences at play here, but if she feels that she is being "restricted" by anyone other than HERSELF she will rebel. There is nothing worse than being made to feel like you are being controlled. She needs to be able to make her own decisions about what is and what is not (who goes here as well) a good influence. There is nothing anyone can do. She must be allowed to make her own decisions.

Hard pill to swallow, but it is the truth. This is what is so hard about trusting another with YOUR future. You have to allow them to figure shit out for themselves without placing limitations on them. If they realize for THEMSELVES that this isn't going to fly and she might lose you because you might just one day not be there when they get back then you will have a chance. If not, then that will be all she wrote.

I am being brutally honest here.

You must stay in this without putting limitations on her. She needs to feel "safe" - like she is allowed to make her own decisions. If she does not make good decisions then that is a risk that you have to be willing to take.

Easier said than done, I know... Good Lord do I know... but it is the only way.

 

[chesty]

And I agree with you 100% That is part of what we talked about last night. I by my nature do to the way I was raised and the things that have happened to me do not trust anyone with my heart and makes me a micro manager a control freak. I don't trust others friends because I have been burnt in the past by them. That is why the counselor said that I need to emotionaly separate my self from her to give her her space, to allow her to make those decisions. She is a christian, has a close relationship with God and was told by the counselor that God would not want her to frequent bars with her friends, that drinking will lead to her making the wrong choices by removing inhibitions, and that God would never tell her it is too late to save the marriage and that he believes in it in her and us.

That is what I am working on. Not only getting in touch with my true feelings, but also on not being a control freak and to allow myself to trust her with my heart again.

 

[BrandonXJ]

hang in there bro, things will work out for you.

 

[TC2]

No offense, but that is incredibly insulting, as if a woman can not think for herself? No one is to blame here except the man and woman involved. On the flip side? No one can fix this except BOTH OF THEM... not God, not a friend, no one... just the two of them. Pretty scary concept; having enough faith in another human being to put YOUR future in thier hands.

Can friends play a role? Absolutely, but ultimately that person is the only one accountable for their thinking.

It's not insulting it's very true. I've seen it a million times.

Misery LOVES company. Men do it also but they don't put out nearly the effort to actively sabotage someones realtionship.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

ok i will

good luck

 

[Werd]

It's not insulting it's very true. I've seen it a million times.

Misery LOVES company. Men do it also but they don't put out nearly the effort to actively sabotage someones realtionship.

Nope sorry.... my ex is living testament that men are just as vicious and will stop at nothing when negatively influencing someone.

Bottom line is this: unless someone is allowed to decide for themselves who they can and cannot socialize with, ultimately they will rebel anyway.

 

[Werd]

And I agree with you 100% That is part of what we talked about last night. I by my nature do to the way I was raised and the things that have happened to me do not trust anyone with my heart and makes me a micro manager a control freak. I don't trust others friends because I have been burnt in the past by them. That is why the counselor said that I need to emotionaly separate my self from her to give her her space, to allow her to make those decisions. She is a christian, has a close relationship with God and was told by the counselor that God would not want her to frequent bars with her friends, that drinking will lead to her making the wrong choices by removing inhibitions, and that God would never tell her it is too late to save the marriage and that he believes in it in her and us.

That is what I am working on. Not only getting in touch with my true feelings, but also on not being a control freak and to allow myself to trust her with my heart again.

Because of this one post - I say that you guys have AN AWESOME chance.

You are only half though...

Honestly, whether you two end up together or not, I think that you will become a better person because of what you are learning about YOU. And I know you may not agree but I feel that the realization and acquisition of this knowledge is more important than salvaging the relationship... no matter where you go Chesty, there YOU will be.

I wish you and your family the best.

 

[chesty]

True. And that is where the trust comes in . You have to be able to trust the person to do the right thing. To not betray you and they have to trust you as well that you trust them. Sort of circular but it is true.

The hardest part is not talking to her. Not holding her. Knowing that it is only in my best interet to be emotionally detached from her. To give her the cooling off period she needs.

In the end though, some so called friends are just jeoulous, caniving little jerks, that only have their own interests at hand.

 

[TC2]

Nope sorry.... my ex is living testament that men are just as vicious and will stop at nothing when negatively influencing someone.

Bottom line is this: unless someone is allowed to decide for themselves who they can and cannot socialize with, ultimately they will rebel anyway.

Right and that's because he (atleast at one time) wanted you back right??

I'm talking about a single or divorced woman wanting her "friend" to be single with her.

Dragging her to bars conviently having her male friends meet her while she's supposed to be working on her family at home.

My ex GF's "friends" did the same shit to us even though we were a happy couple.

Women are very shitty when it comes to anothers happyness.

 

[Werd]

Right and that's because he (atleast at one time) wanted you back right??

I'm talking about a single or divorced woman wanting her "friend" to be single with her.

Dragging her to bars conviently having her male friends meet her while she's supposed to be working on her family at home.

My ex GF's "friends" did the same shit to us even though we were a happy couple.

Women are very shitty when it comes to anothers happyness.

Nope - all they cared about it destroying me because I kicked his abusive ass the fuck out.

And listen - NO ONE CAN DRAG ANYONE OUT. They are willing participants. If these "friends" were not dragging them out to bars, then they would find someplace else to be, ie - burrying themselves in their work instead of coming home to face the situation there.

 

[beastboy]

Give me a break "werd"....if she was any friend she would encourage the gal to try and work things out with chesty...not put her into circumstances where the mind and body can wander.

Step off your pedestal.....

Like I said....I've seen this in almost every instance of a break up, whether it be MAN (happy?) or woman....

 

[Werd]

Give me a break "werd"....if she was any friend she would encourage the gal to try and work things out with chesty...not put her into circumstances where the mind and body can wander.

Step off your pedestal.....

Like I said....I've seen this in almost every instance of a break up, whether it be MAN (happy?) or woman....

If she were any sort of "friend" than she would try to guide her friend to make the best possible choices for HER and her alone. I honestly believe that Chesty is trying to change for the better, but having the family intact may not be the best alternative.

I am trying to get where you think that I am defending Chesty's wife's "friend". I am not.

I am defending Chesty AND his wife.

The "friend" is irrelavant. PERIOD

 

[chesty]

True on all counts. The friend is irrelevant. My analytical mind though tells me to remove all negative/possible negative factors. Just like we do in engineering when designing parts for planes, etc. They may not be the final failure point, but they will contribute an undue amount of pressure that will lead the part to failure. I see "friends" that intentionally take a "friend" that is very vunlnerable emotionally and put her into less than desireable condtions. The vulnerable person, my wife, has been missing an emotional response from me for years. She will do and say things that make her "feel" better, wanted and desired. She will want to please her friend and since her friend is having rough time with her ex she wants to help her. So it is a catch 22. She says her friend is supporting her and that they just go out and people watch, but her friend should not put her into compromising situations that require my wife to be with her in places that are not conducive to a good marriage just so that my wife can feel like she is being her friend by being there for her.

I hope that makes sense. I know what I am trying to say, but it is harder to type it out.

 

[Werd]

I understand exactly what you are saying Chesty. Tough situation all around. Bottom line, your wife has to be free to make her own decisions.

*hug*

(that was a totally platonic hug... just pretend that I am a guy, kay?)

 

[chesty]

Thanks for the hug.

 

[chesty]

Huge change after one night. We just spent 2 and half hours talking about all kinds of things till 3:30 in the am, we worked out together, I cleaned the entire house made dinner, etc.

She has gone from I don't see this working and I think it is too late to telling me that there has to be a you first before there is an us. Ie, I have to change first before we can work on us. She also actually asked me if it was okay for her to be talking with her girlfriend. I naturally told her that I was grateful for her friend being there and that I had no problem with it at all. And to tell her friend that I am grateful she is there for her to lean on.

So, unless this is bullshit, I don't see it as bullshit and it doesn't feel like it. I am now convinced there is an excellent chance for it to continue on to success.

 

[WODIN]

I hope everything works out well for you my man.

 

[from zero]

Sounds like a good sign. Keep at it bro.

 

[Werd]

Huge change after one night. We just spent 2 and half hours talking about all kinds of things till 3:30 in the am, we worked out together, I cleaned the entire house made dinner, etc.

She has gone from I don't see this working and I think it is too late to telling me that there has to be a you first before there is an us. Ie, I have to change first before we can work on us. She also actually asked me if it was okay for her to be talking with her girlfriend. I naturally told her that I was grateful for her friend being there and that I had no problem with it at all. And to tell her friend that I am grateful she is there for her to lean on.

So, unless this is bullshit, I don't see it as bullshit and it doesn't feel like it. I am now convinced there is an excellent chance for it to continue on to success.

(By the way - excellent about "the friend" issue - the less controlling you are THE BETTER it will go for you. I don't have any answers for you, but speaking as woman who has been with very controlling men, all we want is a chance to be able to make our own choices, be allowed to "mess up" on occasion, be supported when we fall and give kudos when we "get it right". It is all about trust.)

I am so very happy for you... but remember, breathe, one day a time. A definite step in the right direction, but don't forget - only the first step of a very long and difficult journey.