First Cycle: Clean Bulk

[mwweber21]

Friend wants to do 500 mg Test E, 0.5 arimedex (anti-E) ED, and 2.5 mg finasteride (proscar) ED for 12 weeks (possible HCG mid-cycle) before beginning PCT. Is it possible to do a clean bulk (15-20 lbs. muscle) considering the estrogen levels (even with an anti-E) associated with the Testosterone? Will a clean diet (but high calories) with HIIT cardio (3x week) produce a large increase in muscle with minimum bodyfat increase?

 

[mikefear]

maybe. everyone is different.

 

[ScienceGeek]

maybe. everyone is different.

To elaborate, it depends on genetics/current body fat/diet.

Some can eat whatever they want, and always stay ripped. Some retain more water than others.

If you ask me, and you did, I would shorten it to 8 weeks for a first cycle.
Also I would use AIFM for estrogen managment over anything else. Seriously.

So: 8 weeks, 250 mg twice a week, 1 spray of AIFM (or 2) a day.

Things like staying lean depends on your diet and genetics. Trying hard to stay lean, and undereating or over cardio-ing could impact gains.

 

[mwweber21]

Ok thanks for the replies. Along the same line, would it be possible to cut on one of the testosterone compounds? Friend is planning his next cycle as a cutter using, anavar and primo, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to do a cut using testosterone. Would the estrogen, increased appetite, or something else make it difficult to cut with a testosterone compound?

 

[surferstar]

Ok thanks for the replies. Along the same line, would it be possible to cut on one of the testosterone compounds? Friend is planning his next cycle as a cutter using, anavar and primo, but I've always wondered if it would be possible to do a cut using testosterone. Would the estrogen, increased appetite, or something else make it difficult to cut with a testosterone compound?

Ofcourse all comes down to diet and cardio

 

[mwweber21]

Understand diet and cardio are important, but there's more to it than that, particularly for someone with poor genetics. Friend has cut 3 times with careful attention to diet and cardio, and he was very dissappointed with the amount of muscle he lost and not being able to get to the desired bf % each time. Last time was about a 12 week cut. Definently more muscle than bf. Don't think there's much room for improvement in diet...maybe overtraining.

 

[surferstar]

Understand diet and cardio are important, but there's more to it than that, particularly for someone with poor genetics. Friend has cut 3 times with careful attention to diet and cardio, and he was very dissappointed with the amount of muscle he lost and not being able to get to the desired bf % each time. Last time was about a 12 week cut. Definently more muscle than bf. Don't think there's much room for improvement in diet...maybe overtraining.

Believe me theres always room for improvement in your diet! I have shit genetics im 6'3" next person in my fam is 5'7".
Maybe he's not doing the right diet or cardio that fits him.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501209
bunch of info.

 

[mwweber21]

Then why aren't testosterone compounds popular for those trying to cut? Is it because the testosterone stimulates appetite, estrogen leads to fat deposits, or another reason? If appetite stimulation is the problem, do some use ECA, Clen, or T3? If estrogen is the problem, will an anti-E work?

 

[gettnlarge01]

It"s all diet.I can cut or bulk on test and never use t3 or clen. Maybe he needs to rethink his diet?

 

[mwweber21]

Sorry for any confusion. He's currently doing his 1st cycle. Never cut (or bulked) with any chemical aids before (except creatine). My friend puts on fat very easily and has a lot of difficulty gaining muscle (or retaining muscle while losing bodyfat). When he started lifting, he was 210 lbs. and he could only bench press 125 lbs. Now he can bench 250 at the same body weight.

Just to be sure, his focus during the past year has been almost entirely on diet (from what he learned from this board and other boards). Sure diet can always been improved, but he know longer thinks the effort is worth the rewards as far as diet is concerned.

Just to be sure, are you saying that testosterone works equally well for cutting or bulking?