finasteride increases testosterone levels!?

[A|pine]

I was always under the impression that finasteride had negative side effects on muscle gains. Sure it helps ya keep your hair and helps with prostate but I always see people bitching about side effects. I was a bit surprised when I read this on minoxidil.com's site (Dr. Lee and the makers of Xandrox). I didn’t know it increased testosterone. I guess I should have considering it stops DHT conversion. I guess I figured it increased estrogen slightly (due to rare reports of gyno)

FAQ Section:
Q. Will finasteride change the level of testosterone in the body?

A. There is a small increase in the amount of testosterone in the serum, because a small fraction of the testosterone is not being converted to dihydrotestosterone. On the average, the increase in the testosterone level is 10 to 20%. For most patients, the level is still within normal limits and is regulated by the feedback mechanism with the pituitary gland. Rare cases of ‘reflex hyperandrogenicity’ have been reported with increased body hair and oily skin.

But it does decrease DHT levels greatly. I see posts all the time about finasteride lowering sex drive and causing other various side effects. Im not quite sure what to believe now on its effect upon muscle gains.

Is anyone here a long time user of finsasteride? I was considering its use along w/ minoxidil. Has it seemed to work well? Any negative side effects? Do you feel it has hurt gains on/off cycle?

Besides Libido there are a few other rare side effects I have read about.

A) Gyno - has anyone gotten gyno from finasteride? How common is this and why exactly would it occur? The possible 10-20% in testosterone and therefore estrogen?

B) Taken from minoxidil.com "Unfortunately "massive shedding," usually after several months of successful finasteride therapy is being reported to us by our patients. Apparently, the systemic reduction of DHT incites a telogen effluvium in a small percentage of patients. The latest consensus among dermatologists is to stop using any hair regrowth drug which may be linked to rapid shedding. It is recommended that patients continue to use minoxidil products, however, and likewise use some other inhibitor that does not cause a hormonal shift of DHT. "

Has anyone experienced these?

Dru-Online.com and Indian based online company sells finasteride in 5mg tabs at a pretty good price. 30x for $30 and 60x for $45. When split into 1 or 2.5 mg doses that is pretty cost effective. 120x2.5mg for $45 or even greater if you split into 1mg (might be a lil tricky). Has anyone in the US ordered from them w/ good success? I hear its not a problem at all and that is pretty damn cheap.

 

[jacshelb]

There are other places to buy it if you search around (try a search for "liquisteride").


Jacob

 

[Tony104104]

B) Taken from minoxidil.com "Unfortunately "massive shedding," usually after several months of successful finasteride therapy is being reported to us by our patients. Apparently, the systemic reduction of DHT incites a telogen effluvium in a small percentage of patients. The latest consensus among dermatologists is to stop using any hair regrowth drug which may be linked to rapid shedding. It is recommended that patients continue to use minoxidil products, however, and likewise use some other inhibitor that does not cause a hormonal shift of DHT. "

Damn, i wonder if that's what's causng my hairloss? I've been on almost a year now and last month my hair started shedding like crazy!

 

[A|pine]

bump

 

[nadr7891]

it makes my hardons not as hard. never noticed any change in libido, really. i stopped using it, anyway, due to fear of it lessening my gains. i've been able to control hairloss without it.

 

[F117A Active Stealth]

I've been using it for 4 months. The first two weeks libido went down, but after my body got used to it.

As far as growth, I've only seen a little big of growth so far, like maybe 20% back of what I've l've lost.

I never used it in dosages of more than 1mg, so I've seen no sides other than the inicial drop in libido.

 

[pharmguy]

I use 1 mg of finasteride ED and .5 mg avodart ED, I can't tell, maybe Id be bald without them

 

[A|pine]

bump

 

[Dando30]

I have been using it for a year and the only side effect I have noticed is it take sme a lot longer to come- which isn't so bad I guess. It sucks when I want a quicky- and jerking off is boring because it takes waaaay to long to jizz.

Other than that I have had no problems . My hair has gotten thicker- enough so that people have noticed. I think it definitely stopped whatever thinning was happening. I jumped on it early before I lost much so maybe that makes a difference?

 

[The_Chemist]

While It's believed to be true that finasteride slightly increases testosterone, the effects of anabolism will be negligable. It sort of like injecting 5mg of enanthate per week. Its not going to get you anywhere.

 

[Mr. AAS]

Many actually claim muscle loss from Finasteride. May be the increase in Estrogen? Gyno rates are .5% on 1mg of Propecia. I'd say there are better ways to stop hair loss.

Try topical TGF-beta blockers.

 

[superbigzane]

bro..

finasteride increases FREE AMOUNTSO F TEST in ur body.. since it blocks DHT conversion

so if testosterone can eiher be converted to estrogen or DHT..

how to prevent gear waste?

basically .. arimidex / finasteride stack and almost none of ur gear will be wasted in conversion.. ull have super high free levesl of test which will contribute to higher gains.. period

thats why i always recommend arimidex/finasteride for aromatizing gear..

 

[jacshelb]

I don't think that a little extra estrogen will cause muscle loss. I could be wrong about this. But, then why would they put estradiol in cattle implants? I'm guessing that less muscle gains come from less total DHT conversion. If I remember right, DHT is somewhat anabolic itself.


Jacob

 

[b1ewsw32]

I don't think that a little extra estrogen will cause muscle loss. I could be wrong about this. But, then why would they put estradiol in cattle implants? I'm guessing that less muscle gains come from less total DHT conversion. If I remember right, DHT is somewhat anabolic itself.


Jacob

Not at all. In fact as we know it may even facilitate muscular hypertrophy, as we know that estrogen is needed for increased IGF production, as well as increasing strength, via it's fluid impacting effects in connective tissue causing increased mechanical leverage abilities.
DHT is not very anabolic, it is very androgenic and is needed and is effective for producing neuro-muscular strength enhancemnt, as is witnessed by most androgens.
So..YES..less total DHT conversion will result in slightly reduced muscular gains from not being able to achieve maximum contraction, poundages and intensity during progressive resistance training.

B32

 

[Mr. AAS]

DHT also has shown much effect on IGF1. Although, Ive never personally seen one study the even has Estrogen and IGF1 in the same sentence, I'll believe you in that respect.

I still believe there are much better ways to prevent MPB.

 

[b1ewsw32]

DHT also has shown much effect on IGF1. Although, Ive never personally seen one study the even has Estrogen and IGF1 in the same sentence, I'll believe you in that respect.

I still believe there are much beta ways to prevent MPB.

There definitely are beter ways...http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262679&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Here's a journal abstract regarding E's role in GH and IGF-1 production....Estrogen receptor blockade with tamoxifen diminishes growth hormone secretion in boys: evidence for a stimulatory role of endogenous estrogens during male adolescence.

Metzger DL, Kerrigan JR.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville 22908.

The increase in GH production during the male adolescent growth spurt has been attributed to both androgen and estrogen receptor-mediated processes. To evaluate the role of endogenous estrogens in the control of GH secretion, we administered the estrogen receptor antagonist tamoxifen to 10 late pubertal males. Blood samples were obtained for GH determination at 10-min intervals on 2 occasions during the last 24 h of a 4-day course of either tamoxifen or placebo. Waveform-specific, multiple parameter deconvolution analysis was employed to assess GH secretory and elimination dynamics. Estrogen receptor blockade resulted in a significant (P < 0.05) diminution in mean 24-h serum GH concentrations, from 3.9 +/- 1.0 (placebo; mean +/- SEM) to 2.7 +/- 0.6 micrograms/L (tamoxifen). This was associated with a significant (P < 0.01) decline in the GH production rate [237 +/- 55 vs. 155 +/- 33 micrograms/L GH distribution volume (Lv).24 h]. Furthermore, this reduction in GH secretion was the result of significant decreases in both the maximal GH secretory rate (0.46 +/- 0.08 vs. 0.34 +/- 0.06 microgram/Lv.min; P < 0.01) and, to a smaller degree, GH secretory burst number (16 +/- 1 vs. 14 +/- 1/24 h; P < 0.05). There was also a trend toward reduced mass of GH secreted per burst (13.3 +/- 2.5 vs. 10.3 +/- 2.0 micrograms/Lv; P = 0.06). No significant alterations in either GH elimination t1/2 or GH secretory burst half-duration were observed during estrogen receptor antagonism. Tamoxifen treatment was associated with a significant (P < 0.05) decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor-I concentrations. However, total and free testosterone, 17 beta-estradiol, insulin-like growth factor-binding protein-3, and pooled 24-h LH concentrations were not significantly changed by short term blockade of estrogen action. We postulate that endogenous estrogens play a facilitatory role in neuroendocrine control of the somatotropic axis during puberty in boys. Tamoxifen blocks this estrogen-dependent stimulation of GH secretion without altering the hormone elimination t1/2. Furthermore, we speculate that any stimulatory role of androgens on GH secretion is exerted primarily through the estrogen receptor after aromatization.

B32

 

[Mr. AAS]

Thanks, my studies are more about the AR than GH/IGF1. I'm more into androgenic (theoretical) possibilities than anobolic. I might need to broaden my research.

Also, who do I contact about changing this SN?