Finally..new study shows prohormone works!

[biggerthanu450]

Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men.

Brown GA, Martini ER, Roberts BS, Vukovich MD, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011.

The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.

 

[edII]

if i read this right, it increases test as well as estrogen. right?? so if you have to take anti- E's, why not just get the real juice?

 

[biggerthanu450]

Yes, increases in test will inevitably increase estrogen, and consequentially shut down test production.
There's no good published studies on transdermal prohormones, but Androgel does not seem to raise estrogen. Androgel also did not affect LH level. In this regard, it is truly a testosterone supplement and not just test replacement. I'm hoping transdermal 1-AD will show the same results.
Anyone know of published studies on transdermal prohormones?

 

[Triple J]

Yes, increases in test will inevitably increase estrogen, and consequentially shut down test production.
There's no good published studies on transdermal prohormones, but Androgel does not seem to raise estrogen. Androgel also did not affect LH level. In this regard, it is truly a testosterone supplement and not just test replacement. I'm hoping transdermal 1-AD will show the same results.
Anyone know of published studies on transdermal prohormones?

Do you have the studies backing up what you are saying about androgel. I don't see how it could avoid these side effects. Sounds like marketing hype from the manufacturer.

Dr. JMW even recommends nolva while using AndroGel.

 

[biggerthanu450]

I can't find the reference I wanted but this supports what I said

Pharmacokinetics, efficacy, and safety of a permeation-enhanced testosterone transdermal system in comparison with bi-weekly injections of testosterone enanthate for the treatment of hypogonadal men.

Dobs AS, Meikle AW, Arver S, Sanders SW, Caramelli KE, Mazer NA.

Johns Hopkins Medical Center, Baltimore, Maryland 21287, USA. [email protected]

The pharmacokinetics, efficacy, and safety of the Androderm testosterone (T) transdermal system (TTD) and intramuscular T enanthate injections (i.m.) for the treatment of male hypogonadism were compared in a 24-week multicenter, randomized, parallel-group study. Sixty-six adult hypogonadal men (22-65 years of age) were withdrawn from prior i.m. treatment for 4-6 weeks and then randomly assigned to treatment with TTD (two 2.5-mg systems applied nightly) or i.m. (200 mg injected every 2 weeks); there were 33 patients per group. Twenty-six patients in the TTD group and 32 in the i.m. group completed the study. TTD treatment produced circadian variations in the levels of total T, bioavailable T, dihydrotestosterone, and estradiol within the normal physiological ranges. i.m. treatment produced supraphysiological levels of T, bioavailable T, and estradiol (but not dihydrotestosterone) for several days after each injection. Mean morning sex hormone levels were within the normal range in greater proportions of TTD patients (range, 77-100%) than i.m. patients (range, 19-84%). Both treatments normalized LH levels in approximately 50% of patients with primary hypogonadism; however, LH levels were suppressed to the subnormal range in 31% of i.m. patients vs. 0% of TTD patients. Both treatments maintained sexual function (assessed by questionnaire and Rigiscan) and mood (Beck Depression Inventory) at the prior treatment levels. Prostate-specific antigen levels, prostate volumes, and lipid and serum chemistry parameters were comparable in both treatment groups. Transient skin irritation from the patches was reported by 60% of the TTD patients, but caused only three patients (9%) to discontinue treatment. i.m. treatment produced local reactions in 33% of patients and was associated with significantly more abnormal hematocrit elevations (43.8% of patients) compared with TTD treatment (15.4% of patients). Gynecomastia resolved more frequently during TTD treatment (4 of 10 patients) than with i.m. treatment (1 of 9 patients). Although both treatments seem to be efficacious for replacing T in hypogonadal men, the more physiological sex hormone levels and profiles associated with TTD may offer possible advantages over i.m. in minimizing excessive stimulation of erythropoiesis, preventing/ameliorating gynecomastia, and not over-suppressing gonadotropins.

 

[riskybizz007]

raised estrogen very nicely

 

[biggerthanu450]

the interesting thing was that estrogen levels in the transdermal group stayed within physiological range, but were very high in the group using test enanthate.
Also LH levels did not change in the transdermal group.

 

[Triple J]

OK, that makes sense because the transdermal treatment does not cause as large a spike as the IM treatments. This gap can probably be narrowed via adjustment of IM dosing level and frequency of injection to maintain steadier levels.

It seems to me the transdermal approaches may be considered preferable because the drug release more closely mimics circadian rthyms. I suspect one of the overlooked areas related to HTPA shutdown is circadian in nature due to the high androgen levels 24x7. So the normal circadian pulses shutdown. Thus what I am saying is that coming off cycle therapies that will help restore circadian pulses may be helpful, and when taking hormones, mimicking circadian cycles would be beneficial to long-term health. I am not talking about muscle-building, just health / longevity.

I still think any endogenous administration of T will result in some degree of shutdown and higher E levels (as mentioned in the study). Thus in my book these risks are still present although not as extreme from Androderm / Androgel as from some other approaches. So I would not go so far to say there is no effect.

 

[biggerthanu450]

i agree with what you are staying...you sound well informed...much more so than the doctor treating me w/ Androgel. I think the androgel will cause less side efects in the long run. I also think long acting esters have more time to aromatize.

 

[pa1ad]

if i read this right, it increases test as well as estrogen. right?? so if you have to take anti- E's, why not just get the real juice?

You simply cannot elevate testosterone without a concomitant increase in estrogen (whether it be through pharmaceutical testosterone or prohormones). Unless you take an aromatase inhibitor