Fina and HIV.... need some help here guys

[Circuitboy]

I'll make it simple........ Is it ok to use Tren with a Test Prop combination to prevent wasting with advanced HIV....is it immuno suppressive or not....I've asked on the HIV Board but there are not enough visits to that thread......... I've just been diagnosed guys so please may I ask for your humanitarian charity today....

Any insight is appreciated.....

BTW...... it would be 75mg of the Tren and 100mg of the Test prop EOD ..... any modifications ???????

 

[ROLGOR]

Sorry to hear bro. I don't know the answer but bump. Hang in there.

 

[Quadsweep]

I really do not know. Sorry to hear that. I will stick this for a day.

Quad

 

[SlipROCK]

Hey dude sry to hear that too.
Just dont let it mess up your head.A friend of mines older brother was diagnosed in 84 and you wouldn't know it if he didnt tell you.
Thats almost 20 years.

The doctor should prescribe any and all things like that,if not try another doc.
As far as the answer to question,i'm no help.Just wanted to say hang in there,and keep your head up!

PEACE

 

[pajaro loco]

Hey dude sry to hear that too.
Just dont let it mess up your head.A friend of mines older brother was diagnosed in 84 and you wouldn't know it if he didnt tell you.
Thats almost 20 years.

WHAT IS THE COCTAIL THAT HE IS USING? I HAVE A FRIEND THAT HAS IT TO.

 

[IronKop77]

Bro sorry to hear that. I also have no idea but their is an anavar profile that was floating around within the last few days that discussed anavar for this type of wasting of muscle tissue. Dont know if that helps though

 

[SlipROCK]

SRY pajaro I have no idea of the meds he is on,like I said we arent that close,me and his brother are tight.I just hate to ask about it,cause like I said,they dont act like he has anything,he is married leads a normal life,not many people know he has at all.

I do know he is on alot of meds though,he works out regular and all,I'll ask his brother,he may know.He has tryed several times to score us some gear in the past......LOL......No DICE!!(Dont blame him either,me and my partner packing on 20 pounds or him living)probably not a hard choice.....lol

 

[naturally anabolic]

Tren does suppress the immune system, i would advice againsts its use, i have heard of many people who have gotten very sick while using it or post using it. The test prop should be ok.

 

[liftsiron]

naturally anabolic Tren does suppress the immune system, i would advice againsts its use, i have heard of many people who have gotten very sick while using it or post using it. The test prop should be ok.

This is an excellant answer, also with fina, winny inj. and test susp. you run a high risk of infection. I would think strongly about anavar with the test. I would also go with a longer acting ester sus 250 or enanth, less need for multible injections.

 

[Fonz]

I'll make it simple........ Is it ok to use Tren with a Test Prop combination to prevent wasting with advanced HIV....is it immuno suppressive or not....I've asked on the HIV Board but there are not enough visits to that thread......... I've just been diagnosed guys so please may I ask for your humanitarian charity today....

Any insight is appreciated.....

BTW...... it would be 75mg of the Tren and 100mg of the Test prop EOD ..... any modifications ???????

Your choices are Deca, Anavar and Test.

Tren def. suppresses the immune system.

Fonz

 

[Quadsweep]

Re: Re: Fina and HIV.... need some help here guys

Your choices are Deca, Anavar and Test.

Tren def. suppresses the immune system.

Fonz

I was pretty sure it did but did not want to say not being 100% sure.

Quad

 

[liftsiron]

Your choices are Deca, Anavar and Test.

I do not feel that Deca is a good choice, while it somewhat boosts the immune system while on, it tends to leave you immuno compermised for awhile after you stop its use. Primo should also work for you. Also you should have no problem getting a script for hgh, as it is indicated for use to prevent wasting in HIV patients. L-glutimine should also be added to your daily supps along with ALA, a high potency multi vit, multi mineral and added zinc. Extra L-lysine noted for its anti viral action in the body may help. It is very important that you train, but not over train. Be sure to get plenty of rest and sleep. Most important realize that having HIV is not a terminal illness, it may progress to AIDS, but there is a good chance with todays treatments that it never will. What you need to do is stay healthy until a cure is found for you. Look at sliprock's friend 20 years with HIV and doing good. Look at Magic Johnson. Good luck to you bro.

 

[NYCGio]

Sorry to hear the bad news bro. All i can recommend is that you do EXTENSIVE research before taking anything. Hang in there buddy

 

[Fonz]

I do not feel that Deca is a good choice, while it somewhat boosts the immune system while on, it tends to leave you immuno compermised for awhile after you stop its use. Primo should also work for you. Also you should have no problem getting a script for hgh, as it is indicated for use to prevent wasting in HIV patients. L-glutimine should also be added to your daily supps along with ALA, a high potency multi vit, multi mineral and added zinc. Extra L-lysine noted for its anti viral action in the body may help. It is very important that you train, but not over train. Be sure to get plenty of rest and sleep. Most important realize that having HIV is not a terminal illness, it may progress to AIDS, but there is a good chance with todays treatments that it never will. What you need to do is stay healthy until a cure is found for you. Look at sliprock's friend 20 years with HIV and doing good. Look at Magic Johnson. Good luck to you bro.

Good points.

Best bet would be HgH+low dose Test(300mg/week)+Anavar(20-30mg BTG/day)

Fonz

 

[gimp]

actually, most steroids have some effect on the immune system, test probably has the least. Ask your doctor what he suggests, as, most anabolics are obviosly prescribed to people with HIV to prevent muscle wasting. Good luck, hang in there,

 

[manny78]

You could easily get a script for Deca, HGH, Test Cyp and anavar.... Now that would be a nice cycle.

 

[Circuitboy]

Thanks for all the input guys, I have yet to see my HIV specialist, but have my 1st appointment next Monday. I've heard that alot of doctors don't prescirbe AAS for HIV wasting because of inconclusive studies currently underway. Do you guys think it's gonna be that hard for me to get them??

I hate to hear that about the Tren, I've gotten pretty good at making it and its really good shit, but oh well it ain't worth dying over. Hell... it may of been what brought on my first opportunistic infection ( PCP )

Since overtraining I understand is a big problem, I'm hitting every body part just once a week now instead of twice, even with AAS I'm understanding that less is more, I'm probobly gonna have to break myself into that method because truth be told I may have been overtraining for a good while now.

Still waiting to get my copy of " Built to Survive " supposedly one of the best books to read in regards to AAS and HIV.


Thanks Again for the support guys, this board has always been an excellent resource.

 

[growing]

Great post/question:

***I am not a doctor, and if I were you I'd read all the replies and bounce the good ones off a really good doctor, once you find one.

I do have some experience here that I could share:

1) you have just been diagnosed with HIV, not aids, which means currently your body is trying to fight the virus (some people are able to fight it for years before any drugs are necessary).

2) (not knowing your exact situation) chances are you're not wasting and you actually feel great every day.

3) the fancy bloodwork that I assume is underway, will tell you and your doctor how strong your Immune system is currently, and every 3-4mos from now on as long as you are religious about monitoring.

4) Chances are your immune system is strong as hell if you're in the early stages, and nothing will harm it to the extent of the tricky HIV virus.

5) In my opinion, if the above is correct, juice all you want, within reason,
but remember, I AM NOT A DOCTOR.

Keep your head up bro, HIV is not a death sentance anymore, it's just one more reason to take awesome care of your body and to workout like a mother-fucker!

Good luck.

 

[Punschkrapfen]

read: http://www.medibolics.com/

 

[Circuitboy]

Well " growing "

I did fail to mention that I did just get diagnosed, but it was in the hospital with Pneomo Cystis Pneomonia, and my CD4 count is a frightening 24 !!

I feel fine now and am on a string of heavy antibiotics, to keep other infections at bay until I get started on my retroviral meds, so actually until my CD4 gets back ( which it will ) I have AIDS.

I was one of those procrastinators who didn't find out until I got sick. My workouts are going pretty good, I lost 15 pounds and have gained most all of it back so thats pretty encouraging. Although I am not as strong as I was before, but I've been off the juice since all this happened a month ago, so that I guess is a contributing factor as well.

I just hate being off the juice for too long, as we all no it just isn't the same without it. So I guess its pretty logical to stay away from all AAS until my CD4 count rises above 350, I'm just a as crazy as a nut though without the shit........ Call me a raving lunatic I guess ....

 

[liftsiron]

Best bet would be HgH+low dose Test(300mg/week)+Anavar(20-30mg BTG/day)

I agree this would seem to be very sound advice.

 

[Transporter]

Circuitboy: did u use any kind of drugs in the past?

Drugs like X or G will kill you when u have HIV!

 

[gimp]

Well, technically, you have aids if you've had 2 or more aids defining illnesses in any given period and your CD4 is lower than 350. PCP is a major one, Kaposi's sarcoma is another, there are others, but, it really depends how long you've had the illness. Most people present to hospital with pneumonia and and find out it is PCP, which almost never occurs in non-hiv infected people. You'll be started on anti-retrovirals and the majority of people really see an increase in their CD 4 and CD 8 and a decrease in viral load (actual amount of hiv virus in your blood). Sometimes the viral load becomes undetectable, which is a good thing. The bad news is that the meds. are not always easily tolerated by many. They give you major nausea and if you don't drink tons of water the can give many kidney stones. I know this first hand 'cause it happened to me. I work as an RN and got stuck with an HIV infected needle and was required to take anti retrovirals for a month to prevent infection, luckily, the virus didn't infect me, but, the medication was really hard to stomach. As for AAS, yeah, not all docs will prerscibe 'em, but, be very honest with your doc and let him know what you've done in the past and what you plan on doing. He may not condone or prescribe them, but, he'll be able to let you know how they will affect you. Stay strong, you'll get through this.

 

[Circuitboy]

Yes... I have done X and G in the past recreationally, actually did both right before I got sick, as well as being on a twelve week Fina/Winny cycle.... I've definatley put the club drug use to the side because I know it can kill everyone and I know that it kills people with HIV even faster..... thanks for the heads up though

And gimp.... I actually have three OI's I'm currently being treated for PCP, Herpes, and Thrush. All three are common OI's with HIV so from what you're saying I do have AIDS....

Until I get on my retroviral meds, I am currently taking Bactrim for my PCP, Valtrex for Herpes, Diflucan for Thrush, and something called Mycobutin to prevent other infections. I see my ID doctor on Monday so hopefully I'll get a cocktail then. I've heard alot about the side effects of the AIDS meds, I hope I can manage ok....I just don't wannna waste away at ANY COST !! That would be a death sentence for me mentally...I'm also scared about this lipodystrophy....how soon does that start and can it be managed with excellent nutrition and my regular resistance training.

 

[gimp]

Then, sorry, yeah, you have aids, according to what I know. I don't wanna downplay it, but, aids is a state that is reversible, really if you haven't taken any anti-retrovirals in the past, you should bounce back. The problems start to arise when you stop and start therapy often, the virus mutates and won't respond to the meds. As for lipodystrophy ( irregular growth of fat), yeah, it can happen after long term treatment, I don't profess to be an expert, but, it seems to be a "genetic" predispotion thing, some are more affected than others, otherwise, it's not a ceratin side effect. Any idea on when you may have been infected? Oh, herpes is NOT an aids defining illness, many people have the herpes virus and have no symptoms at all, the hiv just brings it out some how.

 

[Transporter]

well u screwe yourself with X and G . X and G destroy your immune system, esecially when you are HIV +

 

[Transporter]

Why Are Intravenous Drug Users Getting Sick?*

Intravenous drug users (IVDUs) are the second largest risk group for "AIDS" in the U.S., and their illnesses are the easiest to explain. They have acquired AIDS-illnesses as a toxicological consequence of the heroin, cocaine, and other drugs that they have put into their bodies. According to the prevailing AIDS paradigm, they got sick because they shared needles, thereby acquiring HIV infection, which caused their illnesses. There are three problems with this hypothesis: 1) No study has ever been done to determine if all, or even most, IVDUs with "AIDS" diagnoses ever did share needles (most IVDUs, in fact, do not share needles), 2) the hypothesis ignores the harmful consequences of putting chemicals into the body, and 3) HIV is not pathogenic.

The clinical profile of an IVDU with "AIDS" is emaciation (wasting) and one or more lung diseases. And yet, for a hundred years, the classic profile of a chronic heroin user has been emaciation and lung disease. Heroin is bad for the health and bad for the immune system; on top of that, it suppresses the respiratory system. The consequences are tuberculosis or one or another form of pneumonia: emaciation and lung disease.

More than a decade before the first cases of "AIDS" were reported, the distinguished British epidemiologist, Gordon Stewart, was studying drug addicts in the United States. His team made the following observations:

They were often extremely emaciated, suffering from wasting diseases, various weird blood-borne infections with skin bacteria, Candida and Cryptococci, which would not ordinarily be regarded as pathogenic in their own right....We didn't find Kaposi's sarcoma and we didn't find Pneumocystis (carinii pneumonia) but, then, we weren't looking for it. [Quoted by Jad Adams in AIDS: The HIV Myth, New York, 1989.]

In his paper, "AIDS Acquired by Drug Consumption and Other Noncontagious Risk Factors," Peter Duesberg cites many medical references that indicate: psychoactive drugs leads to immune suppression and clinical abnormalities similar to AIDS."

So then, IVDUs are getting sick in 1995 in the same ways and for the same reasons they were getting sick 86 years ago. The only difference is that now their illnesses are called "AIDS."

 

[gimp]

I don't agree with the above study. Heroin or opiates are NOT detrimental to your health. Proof? Many people with chronic pain require daily high doses of opiates via IM, IV or oral route. These people NEVER seem to develop "aids" like illnesses, when they are using clean, monitored doses of opiates. The reason why "junkies" get "aids" like illnesses is because,1. they are not using clean drugs. 2. they are not eating, sleeping and managing they're health as they should and that reduces the effectiveness of they're immune systems leaving them susceptible to oppurtunistic infections. The statement that HIV is not pathogenic makes absolutely no sense. Pathogenesis literally translated means "pathos" greek for illness or disease, genesis "birth of.. or begining of or a shitty band that phil collins played in". So saying that hiv is not pathogenic is bunk.

 

[NYCGio]

well u screwe yourself with X and G . X and G destroy your immune system, esecially when you are HIV +

Dont forget K, i get sick everytime I do it. Maybe I should rephrase...DID IT. I retired from Sound Factory last week (NYers will know what I'm talking about )

 

[VballPlayer]

Oh man I am sorry to hear about that. I would like to give you a little hope though. My friend was diagnosed with HIV like 5 years ago and he is still healthy as an ox. He has just started taking test and deca. He really did not have to but he wanted to get even more muscular than he is. He has not wasted away at all. He is undetectable. He gets his test/deca shots from the gay and lesbian centers there are programs that you can sign up for and you can get the medical attention you need for free. Another bit of good news is I know one guy who was diagnosed in the early 80’s and still has not come down with AIDS he is only HIV +. There is a book you can get called Built To Survive that I heard has some great information in there about how you can build your body to help you live with HIV. I would suggest that you stick to Test/Deca because that is what is working for my friend and I am sure you can get it from your Doctor now. My friend wanted to do FINA and I told him that anything home brewed would probably not be a good thing to stick in your body. Who knows how much bacteria is in there. Stick to the more sterile form of roids. Again, you might want to ask you doctor this because they will prescribe them to you. Good luck man. If you ever need an ear to talk to shoot me a PM I know a lot about what you are going through not because I have HIV but I dated my friend who has it.

 

[gotmilk]

Find a company called Trimeris in Durham.

I have owned stock in their company for a couple of years and they have an HIV inhibitor drug that kicks ass. It prevents HIV from entering cells and works in like 98% of all patients so far.

Trimeris is the medical research company owned by Duke, UNC, and Wake Forest and they are always running studies and clinical trials.

You can obtain access to their stuff for free if you can make it to Durham.

www.trimeris.com

 

[Transporter]

dude just stay awaty from any kind of drugs. your t cells dropped cause your immune system is fucked up with X etc....

stay clean , take medication and u should be fine.
good luck!

 

[Circuitboy]

Thanks for the encouragment Vballer you'll be hearing from me again I'm sure.. And yes Transpotter I intend to stay away from all the G and X from now on, its fucked me up enough apparently.

And I will definatley look into Trimeris, Durham isn't but 3 hours from me here in Charlotte..

I just got back form the gym and I'm getting really frustrated, I'm not as strong as I was before my recent PCP and HIV diagnosis. I was released from the hospital on October 14th ( last month ) I really wanna get back on the juice, but I don't know if that is wise at a 24 CD4 count. I see my ID doctor Monday for the first time, does anybody know if I should wait until my doctor puts me on my first cocktail and get my CD4 count back up before I go back on a cycle???

Also does anybody know ifat this CD4 level if I am maybe somewhat wasting, My weight is close to what it was before I got sick but I feel like I'm not as pumped as I was, and I'm not lifting as much as well as reaching failure much sooner.... Any thoughts??

Again...you guys have been great, I really appreciate the input

 

[McBane]

Sorry to hear about this bro. I have to give you a lot of credit for not begging for sympathy or playing the victum. You are taking an active role in your health and I really respect that. If you keep this attitude then I'm sure you will be able to hold this thing off. Lots of people live for a very long time with HIV and AIDS. Good luck dealing with this bro, the road will not be an easy one, but if you keep positive you will do well I think.

 

[Circuitboy]

Thanks McBane !!

 

[NYStrip]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best bet would be HgH+low dose Test(300mg/week)+Anavar(20-30mg BTG/day)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



>>I agree this would seem to be very sound advice.

I also agree. That's a good wellness cycle for anybody.

 

[thate]

Why Are Intravenous Drug Users Getting Sick?*

I seriously doubt he got infected by using drugs bro. Think about it he has herpes too.

 

[liftsiron]

gimp, you know your shit bro.

 

[runner]

i know it's frustrating to see your strength going down a bit...but don't rush into anything. get your cd4 count back up before you start juicin' again.

like vballplayer and others, i too have a couple of good friends who are positive and have been for some time. other than having to take their meds, their day to day lives have not been hampered a bit. and their bodies look as good or better than they did before being diagnosed. your fitness consciousness will serve you well and will make a big difference. keep it up, and good luck to you.

one of the "built to survive" authors lives here in houston and works out at my gym. definitely read the book and go to medibolics.com for some inspirational stories, information, etc.

 

[Fonz]

well u screwe yourself with X and G . X and G destroy your immune system, esecially when you are HIV +

GHB destroys your immune sustem?

LMFAO.

Life extensionists use GHB extensively. If it did destroy your immune system, i highly doubt they'd use it.

I suggest you go read.......LOL

X? Yes, without a doubt. It damages nerves via oxidation. But GHB? No .

Fonz

 

[wilson6]

"Your choices are Deca, Anavar and Test. "

I agree. They've been looked at in the HIV population and the negative effects or lack of are well documented in the clinical literature. You should have no problem obtaining a legit prescription for any of these in modest (greater than replacement) doses.

W6

 

[Circuitboy]

Deca.... Anavar..... Test....and Serostim. I've got it on my list of questions to ask my doc on Monday. I just hope I can get it sooner than later...

Does anyone know how long it will take once my doctor starts me on retrovirals for me CD4 to come back up to a level at which I can start juicing again. My last count was 24 but I was also still recovering from PCP, so the reading maybe a little higher now..

 

[gimp]

I don't know what level they've got to be at for you to juice again. In Canada the minimum "healthy" level od CD 4 is 200. A good level is around 800 (I think). I've seen people respond in 6-12 weeks after starting anti-retrovirals.